errors administering pegintron redipen interferon doses

[madelefant]

I'm trying to figure out if I screwed something up in my second injection. The first time I injected I had severe side effects. The second, none.  When I was preparing the stuff I started screwing on the needle that comes separately and it seemed not to be seating right so I screwed it off and did it again. It seemed like more liquid came out then would seem reasonable. I went ahead, screwed it back on, pulled and selected the dosing button and  did the injection.   The lack of side effects make me think something didn't work  right.

Mike

[nygirl7]

"Here I disagree with Veggie, with NO apology ans for GOOD reasons." ~merry
"I had a private conversation with the gal who handles all the drop outs and she was emphatic about it. " - Merry

First I bet the "gal" knows much more than all the doctors who have stated the 80/80/80 rule.  Sure.

Second regarding Veg - You owe her an apology.  The 80% rule IS valid - not "advised" but is a VALID comment knowing that people are human, accidents do happen and all of that....she is repeating what common medical knowledge has told us. She didn't just make it up.  

Perhaps if you look at the forum and see that everyone disagrees wholeheartedly with you you would realize that you're wrong and just do the RIGHT thing and be gracious and apologize.  I don't know however if you have that in you.

But apologizing TO her is the right thing to do, not continuing to argue an invalid point that you are trying to push.

[madelefant]

Thanks for all your input. I noticed the place where I did the injection has gotten reddish now which is an indication that the medicine was taken in. Even if I lost a bit I feel a lot better about it especially considering it means I am have lower symptoms than  I did initially. Thanks again.


Mike

[merryBe]

sorry to all. I use caps for emphasis not to scream..is there another way to do that in here?????
that was not my intention, I just don't know how else to emphasis a word in here.

also...this person climbed on me for being jovial.in another thread first......then for this. And I'm trying to avoid giving others leway on the 80/80 because it does lead to far more illness than it cures.
I had a private conversation with the gal who handles all the drop outs and she was emphatic about it.

let's say someone takes this 80 percent advice to its limits. that would mean 20 percent less medication AND skipping every 5th day of treatment. Is that something logical to anyone?

maybe I just got an overdose today but between the tx., trying to help in here, and coming up against the shrew with no humor I guess I snapped too.

for this I apologize.

between my dry heaves today I did read the fda 155 page original research someone posted and still did not come away thinking any underdosing is wisdom. But then, I'd add to that what's happened in the 5 years since those trials is that we have real world stats on large mumbers, millions not hundreds, and the verdict seems pretty clear to me.

Believe me, I would love to skip doses....but this is not something to encourage. I'd rather see someone go back in, and get an agreed upon reduced dose, because here at least they can tell by labs if you start under dosing and will remove you from tx. altogether.(partly to keep you from developing another more virulent strain you can pass on). Anyway, those are just other sides to the tx coin. Maybe it depends upon how up on things one's clinical knowledge is.
For instance some here know you can jump 500,000 VL missing a couple doses, right??

[indyjo]

The "80 thing" was not offered as advice. I don't think anyone is saying that it is a good idea to miss doses or to screw up your shot. I think that the message is that if it happens (accidently) it will probably be ok. Why are you so mad?

[wyntre9]

Stalking you?

You flatter yourself.

[Proactive]

This from the fda approval transcripts on Pegasys

"From a efficacy point of view -- can you put the slide up? This is admittedly a gross analysis that tries to look at the amount of drug that patients got called an 80/80/80 analysis where patients in order to meet the criterion needed to receive 80 percent of their doses of the components for 80 percent of the assigned time. And what can say that if patients meet the 80/80 rule and this is from the second study, the 942 duration and dose study, 76 percent of the patients for sustained virological responders, this is actually in the group who got the full dose and the full duration.

Patients who didn't meet 80/80/80, but continued to get drug, it did drop a bit to 65 percent, but it was still a fairly high response. Patients who failed to meet and prematurely discontinued only had 22 percent. So I think albeit this isn't the best analysis to look at it, if patients were dose reduced, they tended to stay in the studies and they tended to still have a good response."
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/02/transcripts/3909T1.htm

[Terrylee8]

Seems as though you are nearing the Riba rage point.  All of the caps translate to yelling and anger.  Lighten up, your becoming obnoxious, go take some AD's, you need them.

[merryBe]

ok, so now you are stalking me for daring to use humor in one thread or disagreeing with someone in another?

Here I disagree with Veggie, with NO apology ans for GOOD reasons. I worked for docs both traditional and alternative for over 30 years...this tx is VERY dependant on the steady dose state and any devience is strictly frowned on here in Oregon.
In fact, you will be removed from treatment if you do not do ALL doses AND keep ALL your labs up.
the 3 outta 4 doses is simply a whole lot of hooey that will lower any and everyones chance or clearing this disease. Period. Sounds like a bat outta Hell (meatloaf song to me!! )3 outa 4 ain't bad)

Meaning I'm trying to SAVE more lives streessing what  the research proves out.
And I don't need a police/grumpy from treatment woman to tell me how to say it just right.
Maybe you should READ the post. "Sorry to have to disagree with you twice" is an attempt NOT to be overly confrontatonal....at least it was called diplomacy when I went to school.....how'd you learn how to do it?: Oh just knee jerk rag on people?

look

You don't like that I'm trying to save lives in here, you're opinion...too bad though, it just squelches joy..
don't think I'm nice enough.....fine. You be miss manners, I'll go hug my toilet for the day, literally cause it is shot day, and say a prayer for you..
I didn't know it was a miss america contest in here.......sheesh...we are trying to help each other here...not win the nobel peace prize!!!!!!

if veggie doesn't agree with what I said, I sure I won't hearing the defense from the author in the least.
Let the evidence support the facts.

I really think something else is at work here.
look
Sometimes I have bad days, and If I'm having one, I guess I could get on here and police everyone and chide them for their humor or malign them for Their supposed lack of manners....
or I could try staying at rest until I've recomposed myself.....and am having an ok day.
perhaps you should give that a try as well???????

I'm younger than that now" is a line from a dylan tunes (bob)....it's implication is that the older we are the more aware we are, but also of how much there is yet to know. It was my way of helping veggie know, respectfully, that while I'm not all knowing, while we all but children still learning,  there is considerable info that contradicts her 80% theory.
I've also watched friends both die and destroy for life their heart miscle from less than enlightened vegetarian diets so my perspective has changed regarding many aspects of nutrition over the years.
Making once again no apology for what life, time, and experience have added to my data base there.
I've also taught both anatomy and nutrition at the college level, so again, we all have our degrees of expertese. It just so happened in this area some correction was condusive to live, and hopefully folks will do it to me as well, whenever needful, albeit hopefully with a little more grace than ehat just occured.

I realize we are in a world wide forum, but it's doubtful that everyone will take the time to explain every metaphor or well known expression to you. Hopefully at least this one will lightened your load and help you see the real spirit this was being written in..We are allowed times to snap at people on this tx.wyntee....hopefully you'll feel better now that you let that out...I hope so!!!!!!!!

the only way I would consider this 80 percent thing good advice is if I could erase 30 years of learning from my consciousness and training. Hopefully we don't have to be "politically correct" in here to have an opinion that differs, especially when lives may depend on what others come away with?????

[wyntre9]

I've seen veggie's comment several times over the past 11 months and lost of people seem to support it.

What's your problem?

And what the heck does that mean, "you're younger than that, now?"

Lay off the kind, considerate respected people on Board.

wyntre

[merryBe]

>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember the 80/80 rule? If you get 80% of the medicine 80% of the time you should be fine.

ok, sorry to do this twice in one night to you, but is SO the opposite of everything I've read in here, pub med and elsewhere. I used to be a veggie too....I'm younger than that now.........

madelefant:


DO NOT MISS any doses, and if you screwed up a shot, call for another or get an emergency one at your clinic.
stay on time and on point, particularly with the riba as well. the people that clear are almost exclusively in THIS group.......the 3 out of 4'rs...80%......are the ones who much more often fail to UND OR SVR.....

many are in here due to some loosy goosy life choices....let's not finish ourselves off with more of that dribble..........and PS.....the only meds that philosophy works with is antibiotics...because docs know no one finishes a series they generally overdose you hoping you'll get enough in the first 5 days to hold you...(cause they know we are all space cedets with short attention pans who don't want to do a ten days series...........that's whrere tht 80-80 thing came from...amongst vets and GP's regarding amoxicillin and the like. It's not a general across the board thing however. Missed doses of some meds mean death.. Can't state this emphatically enough.

so hit ot miss here RRRRRRRRROOOOAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!.

it has nada nada nothing to do with fighting a nmutting retrovirus that managed to stay entrenched for thousands of years in one host after another....you want outta this party....you take your freakin meds, on time, all of them.  Nuff said.

[Terrylee8]

I think you are doing ok.  The syringe comes with 202ml.  Mine is designed to deliver 150ml.  Some almost always leaks out when you remove the yellow cap.  I had no sides for the 1st 6 weeks and I thought it wasn't working.  I cleared at 8 weeks so I guess it was OK.  I wouldn't worry too much about this.

[veggie]

Those needles are tricky. Make sure you follow the directions exactly. If some liquid happens to come out you can dial a bigger dose. One time I ruined the whole thing and had to do another one. But the company sent me a freebie. Toward the end of tx. I did something wrong and it leaked but I figured it would be OK. I was tired of the entire thing. Remember the 80/80 rule? If you get 80% of the medicine 80% of the time you should be fine.

[Myown]

The first shot is the one I felt - after that never felt another one.