Aa
Benazir butto dead
She was killed today in a suicide bombing.
It's so tragic.
wyntre
It's so tragic.
wyntre
" She could have stayed in exile and played it safe with all her money... Instead, she chose to come back to Pakistan. That takes guts, knowing you could be murdered. Not so sure I admire how she conducted herself once there. She had a responsibility to the people of Pakistan to keep herself safe and protected.'
The responsibility was that of the Pakistani government, which REFUSED to offer assistance. That's how she was almost assassinated 2 months ago. That's why she emailed a Washington friend pointing the finger at Mussharef as being responsible for her death, if it occurred, becasue he was deliberately withholding protection.
I certainly was not intending to convey the idea I am 'elevating' Bhutto to sainthood. I Personally, I don't believe in saints or sainthood, just flawed, tragic, sometimes heroic humans..
And as far as her exposing herself to danger, that's what REAL people do: She HAD taken on the role; one of the unwritten laws of successful politicians is access to the people. I think of the best politicians as consumate performers.
So let's grieve the noble lady's death and admit that it was a tragedy, especially as it's replayed day in, day out, on TV sets all over the world, for everyone to see, including her family, her children, her supporters, her relatives. That makes the whole thing even more poignant.
wyn
The responsibility was that of the Pakistani government, which REFUSED to offer assistance. That's how she was almost assassinated 2 months ago. That's why she emailed a Washington friend pointing the finger at Mussharef as being responsible for her death, if it occurred, becasue he was deliberately withholding protection.
I certainly was not intending to convey the idea I am 'elevating' Bhutto to sainthood. I Personally, I don't believe in saints or sainthood, just flawed, tragic, sometimes heroic humans..
And as far as her exposing herself to danger, that's what REAL people do: She HAD taken on the role; one of the unwritten laws of successful politicians is access to the people. I think of the best politicians as consumate performers.
So let's grieve the noble lady's death and admit that it was a tragedy, especially as it's replayed day in, day out, on TV sets all over the world, for everyone to see, including her family, her children, her supporters, her relatives. That makes the whole thing even more poignant.
wyn
I had read scant references to Bhutto's support for the Taliban in the past and found it a bit incredulous at first particularly since she'd been touted as the answer to Pakistan's prayers...so I spent some time researching her to get a more accurate picture of her history. I always knew about the corruption charges but only surface knowledge. I really shouldn't have been surprised. Allegiances change throughout history sometimes and it's a matter of picking your lesser evil at any given time, it seems.
I think Bhutto was in favour of democracy as well and I think that her time in exile did her outlook some good. Just the same, we're talking about Pakistan. Musharraf has had to play both ends against the middle and he pretends to the U.S. that he's giving them what they want while at the same time, he brokers deals with militants in his own country to keep things from spiralling out of control there too. I think he HAS to do that sometimes and so he dances to various tunes including that of his own personal ambitions and the tune of billions of dollars being poured into the country if he does the West's dance. Bhutto has done and might have continued to do the same..and might have NEEDED to do the same. I was really watching with some skepticism of the whole process because what the West demands isn't necessarily how things should be. We apply this one-size-fits-all democracy .. and some countries have some cleaning up to do before they get there.
I think Bhutto was in favour of democracy as well and I think that her time in exile did her outlook some good. Just the same, we're talking about Pakistan. Musharraf has had to play both ends against the middle and he pretends to the U.S. that he's giving them what they want while at the same time, he brokers deals with militants in his own country to keep things from spiralling out of control there too. I think he HAS to do that sometimes and so he dances to various tunes including that of his own personal ambitions and the tune of billions of dollars being poured into the country if he does the West's dance. Bhutto has done and might have continued to do the same..and might have NEEDED to do the same. I was really watching with some skepticism of the whole process because what the West demands isn't necessarily how things should be. We apply this one-size-fits-all democracy .. and some countries have some cleaning up to do before they get there.
"I think it's a tragedy that Bhutto has been killed at this particular time in history as well. However, let's be careful not to elevate her to total sainthood here. She's had two terms in office already and while she was in office, she supported the Taliban and made her own contribution to their subsequent level of influence in Afghanistan. She supported them militarily and financially as being the best option at the time and, as a result, has made her own contribution to the current problem. While she was in power, she and her husband made alot of money off of the people of Pakistan. She wasn't a whole lot different in that regard than alot of other leaders who serve themselves while being in power under the guise of serving their people. There are a number of people who resent her family as having made their riches off the backs of the poor of Pakistan without improving their plight" as you said.
I hadn't heard she supported the Taliban. Interesting. I think or at least her motivations were to support democracy. It took guts to go back to Pakistan. I haven't read that much about her and am learning here.... Where did you get your info on her supporting the Taliban?
4C; Nice post
Linda
I hadn't heard she supported the Taliban. Interesting. I think or at least her motivations were to support democracy. It took guts to go back to Pakistan. I haven't read that much about her and am learning here.... Where did you get your info on her supporting the Taliban?
4C; Nice post
Linda
I think it's a tragedy that Bhutto has been killed at this particular time in history as well. However, let's be careful not to elevate her to total sainthood here. She's had two terms in office already and while she was in office, she supported the Taliban and made her own contribution to their subsequent level of influence in Afghanistan. She supported them militarily and financially as being the best option at the time and, as a result, has made her own contribution to the current problem. While she was in power, she and her husband made alot of money off of the people of Pakistan. She wasn't a whole lot different in that regard than alot of other leaders who serve themselves while being in power under the guise of serving their people. There are a number of people who resent her family as having made their riches off the backs of the poor of Pakistan without improving their plight.
What her motivation is for coming back to Pakistan now isn't entirely clear. I think she came back now because she's certain to have the backing of the governments of the free world and part of her deal is to be absolved of the corruption charges that have been laid against her in the past. Having said that, it was STILL a gutsy move and not at all without great personal sacrifice, I'm sure. And it is a blow to the democratic process to have Bhutto killed/assassinated at this time. Certainly the pro-Islamist forces had something to do with this. And that is the REAL threat here. Whoever gets into power in Pakistan has to be able to contain the rising threat of fundamentalist Islamic factions that are increasing in power in the north of Pakistan and allowing the passage of pro-Taliban back and forth across the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, thus prolonging the hostilities there. I don't profess to understand all the politics over there, however, I watch the delicate balance swaying this way and that way with varying levels of concern, knowing the greater implications for the rest of the world.
I admire Bhutto's bravery, I'll say that much. She could have stayed in exile and played it safe with all her money...as l-horn said, she could have been shopping at Harrod's. Instead, she chose to come back to Pakistan. That takes guts, knowing you could be murdered. Not so sure I admire how she conducted herself once there. She had a responsibility to the people of Pakistan to keep herself safe and protected.
While Musharraf is clearly looking to protect his own power base, one has to wonder if Bhutto would have been able to contain the Islamist threat in that country as effectively as Musharraf, not that he has done so effectively...just that I'm not quite sure who would have been able to do so MORE effectively. And I'm concerned that Bhutto would only have been able to do so if the West had backed her militarily. Now we'll never know. And now the world waits to see what will happen with the upcoming elections.
What her motivation is for coming back to Pakistan now isn't entirely clear. I think she came back now because she's certain to have the backing of the governments of the free world and part of her deal is to be absolved of the corruption charges that have been laid against her in the past. Having said that, it was STILL a gutsy move and not at all without great personal sacrifice, I'm sure. And it is a blow to the democratic process to have Bhutto killed/assassinated at this time. Certainly the pro-Islamist forces had something to do with this. And that is the REAL threat here. Whoever gets into power in Pakistan has to be able to contain the rising threat of fundamentalist Islamic factions that are increasing in power in the north of Pakistan and allowing the passage of pro-Taliban back and forth across the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, thus prolonging the hostilities there. I don't profess to understand all the politics over there, however, I watch the delicate balance swaying this way and that way with varying levels of concern, knowing the greater implications for the rest of the world.
I admire Bhutto's bravery, I'll say that much. She could have stayed in exile and played it safe with all her money...as l-horn said, she could have been shopping at Harrod's. Instead, she chose to come back to Pakistan. That takes guts, knowing you could be murdered. Not so sure I admire how she conducted herself once there. She had a responsibility to the people of Pakistan to keep herself safe and protected.
While Musharraf is clearly looking to protect his own power base, one has to wonder if Bhutto would have been able to contain the Islamist threat in that country as effectively as Musharraf, not that he has done so effectively...just that I'm not quite sure who would have been able to do so MORE effectively. And I'm concerned that Bhutto would only have been able to do so if the West had backed her militarily. Now we'll never know. And now the world waits to see what will happen with the upcoming elections.
I just see this as a discussion board, and a support board, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me or "like" me for that matter....If a person expects everyone to like them they are leaving themselves open for disappointment. Debating is just debating...I only know a few people on here personally, and I'm glad for their friendships, others I know only from their posts...so I don't really take it to a level where I'm thinking a lot about oh I don't like this one or that one...I really don't know most people here and they really don't know me either...we mostly know each other from our posts on a message board...
So, to me at least, it's really not that serious, personal stuff just gets in the way sometimes and believe it or not...I'm not into personal arguments or flaming...I'd rather discuss points and points of view....
I don't even remember my post you're alluding to in a alcohol thread, specifically...only that I always find it odd that people would come on here and talk about over drinking alcohol...I just figure, you want to over drink with hepatitis and get pie eyed, or on treatment, whatever....go do it by all means, our lives are to be lived the way we please....just why talk about it at a hepatitis board? Where people have this disease?.... just don't see the point or how it serves any purpose....I'm NOT including moderate drinking in that equation either....if that's what you're referring to...but I'm sure there are people who don't understand everything I do here either...
So, to me at least, it's really not that serious, personal stuff just gets in the way sometimes and believe it or not...I'm not into personal arguments or flaming...I'd rather discuss points and points of view....
I don't even remember my post you're alluding to in a alcohol thread, specifically...only that I always find it odd that people would come on here and talk about over drinking alcohol...I just figure, you want to over drink with hepatitis and get pie eyed, or on treatment, whatever....go do it by all means, our lives are to be lived the way we please....just why talk about it at a hepatitis board? Where people have this disease?.... just don't see the point or how it serves any purpose....I'm NOT including moderate drinking in that equation either....if that's what you're referring to...but I'm sure there are people who don't understand everything I do here either...
Great post. I enjoyed reading your comments. Thanks!
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