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Avatar universal

zazza and wyntre

how are my nearest 72 week needle buddies doing?
It's 6:00 am here and I just did shot # 45.
The mid 30's weeks into the early 40's were so far the roughest as far as sides go (excluding week #1)
Sides have been better the last few weeks, although I have a swollen gland on the left side of my neck/jaw, might have caught a bit of a cold, we'll see....I think the cooler weather has a lot to do with the improved sides,,,that's what I'm telling myself anyway (G)....Hope all is well or at least steady for ya..
:^)Pro
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Avatar universal
Thank you for asking! I did shot 43 yesterday, so I am just 2 behind you. Feeling okay again after my dose increase of interferon 2 weeks ago, either I just had one of my bad weeks or it took a while for my body to adjust to 120 mcg instead of 100 mcg PegIntron. I agree though that sides have been rougher the last ten weeks or so, especially the days after shot day. I almost had no reaction at all to the shots at beginning of treatment, so wonder why this has changed?

Just talked to my nurse, she says my hemoglobin has fallen. It has been between 10 and 11 just about all through treatment, and now it is 9.5. I just want to get started on my extension (week 49-72). I am a little worried my doc will find some reason with my bloodwork or so not to follow through with extending. We are not allowed rescue drugs in my country, so they might want to cut down the ribavirin. But there is nothing to worry about unless your hemoglobin goes below 9, isn't that so?

It is unbelievable that we are already approaching 48. We have gone a long way. I am just so happy I do not have to do this alone. This forum really is a superb support group.

Keep at it! Zazza
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Avatar universal
Do you also like to do your shots first thing in the morning? Have it over with? 10 am is my time though, still sleeping at 6!
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Avatar universal
Glad to hear you are hanging tough...and that you got the peg increase you were wanting...I'm on 120mcg myself @ 76.3 kg (almost borderline 150mcg) and as you know, 21mg/kg of riba..
Sorry to hear about your hgb and no rescue drugs, I'd have to guess your butt is dragging a bit. While mine is still holding at 12 even, I can sympathize, pretreatment my hgb was near 18, so I've taken a pretty big hit from normal, and feel it (G)....I agree on getting past the 48 and into extra innings..

Can you get a script for rescue drugs and fill it outside your country?
off to work for a few hours....Pro
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Avatar universal
Just spotted your post...Yes, I like to do the shots first thing in the morning, you summed it up perfectly, "Have it over with". I use to work myself up into such a frenzy worrying about doing the damn shot in the evening, it truely became a traumatic event for me, nurse give me some happy pills to take an hr before "the event" and I'd still shake like a leaf doing the shot....then I didn't sleep that night..
Now I do it, get it over with and sleep on shot night......;^)
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm so happy for both of you that you are already approaching one year mark!

Zazza,

I would say at this point of your treatment riba reduction probably will not make much difference, but like you, I wanted to take every riba-pill possible plus more riba if possible.

I'm not sure if it was a coincidence, but drinking raw egg yokes (2-3 daily) at the time helped me to maintain my hemoglobin levels.    During my prior treatments with only Infergen and Interferon /without riba/ - I only had riba during my very first clinical trial -- my hemoglobin was always at the borderline of dose reduction.  But during my latest two years of treatment, when I was on huge amounts of Infergen + riba (I estimated that I had approx. 24-28 mg/kg of riba), my hemoglobin never dropped below 9.6, therefore, I never used Epo as a rescue drug.

My thinking was ... that since an egg yoke is a super storage place of all nutrients necessary for development of life (little chicken :-)) and it's mostly bypasses our digestion system in its raw form (it's similar to glucose, most of the nutrients will be in blood steam in ~20 mins or less), so why not to try it?  Plus, I think, our metabolism (and digestive system) is somewhat compromised, especially, while on treatment.

Don't worry about salmonella.  Hen's eggs have this microfilm from the outside of the shell, preventing any bacteria to pass from the mother-hen to the future baby. While I worried that this micro film is washable and eggs purchased in the stores probably pre-washed; but I still think, the risk is still very-very low … and even if let say bacteria some how was present in the egg-box and such and was able to enter the egg after the washing.  I should note that this micro-film (I'm sure I'm not naming it properly) doesn't exist on ducks eggs.  So I would NEVER drink raw duck eggs.  

Also, don't worry about cholesterol - yokes full of lecithin that ensures "delivery" of the unused cholesterol from your system for extraction as a waste product. I still drink raw egg yokes -- and my "bad" LDL cholesterol now is <80 and "good" part of it is ~70.

I would not drink raw egg whites though, unless you want to supplement your diet with Biotin (one of the B vitamins) and probably other B-vitamins.

All the best to all!!
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Avatar universal
Hello Pro,

Have to agree on the cooler weather for me as well and thank god were on the down side of the summer. It is interesting that many people here that had little or no sx at the beginning of their tx are now, in the middle or close to the middle of their tx are starting to have more sx symptoms. I don’t know if the meds over a period of time that has started to ware down everyone’s biological systems or not or is it a mental progression of the length of treatment thus far. It seems that I had most of my bad sx’s in the beginning, from week 4 through week 20. At week 20 I had made a decision to lower the riba because that seemed to be the root of the ongoing sides as well as the humidity here in the east was killing me. At week 21, I had blood work done which revealed low thyroid ths which in my mind had added to all the other std sx’s to this point and was bouncing in and out at the higher dose of riba all along. The decision to drop back on the riba in July was to let my system find its own ground and it has seemed to have worked for the last five weeks thus far, but will know for sure when blood work is done in a week and a half. I have felt a lot better but still get fatigued in the afternoon and after shot effects are minimal and have finally started gaining weight again. Just hope the back side of the storm is less windy. Haven’t taken a vacation in two years and am taking advantage of the eye of the storm. Good luck on your 72 week roll.

Jasper
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223152 tn?1346978371
zazza -    Whow girl, what have I missed.  I don't frequent the site daily anymore.  Why did you increase interferon?????  Haven't you been clear since week 20 or 16?  Whose idea - yours or the doc's.  What was it based on?   I like the induction theory - higher does of interferon up front, but not familiar witht he benefit at this stage.   Sorry to hear about the hemoglobin drop.  They don't  use Procrit in Sweden, do they?  I know you must feel terrible.  Hang in there.

Tallahasee -  How are you?  Are you done yet?  Are you still UND?  How are you feeling?

Proactive - in the for what it's worth department -- when I treated (56 weeks) I found that things leveled out around week 42 or so.  My worse weeks were aroung 32-38, of course, that was also winter and a high stress time on my job.  By 42 I was totally exhausted (to differentiate that from anemia) but functioning at a certain level of (could you say?) comfort.  Good luck on the overtime.

frijole

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Avatar universal
I'm doing well, thank you for asking.

I think with every passing day / week I have more and more good days than bad days!

The best part is that 12 weeks post tx I still was UND, so I still holding to my hope.

The jury is still out regarding my thyroid - I stopped supplemental thyroid hormone 1 month post tx and hoping that I'll not need it any more.  I know that if I continue taking thyroid medicine, my body not likely to restart its own thyroid functioning - you know, our bodies are the most energy efficient organisms - if they have free milk, why produced it! :-)

How are you doing?
Did you make any plans for your future treatments??

All the best always!!
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223152 tn?1346978371
12 weeks post and clear?  That looks excellent. Good thinking on the thyroid.  Do you know that doctors rx the synthroid now a days for weight loss (stimulates the metabolism).  My ex-daughter-in-law started doing that and I got on to her for exactly what you said.  Your own body stops making the hormones.  I hope it works for you.


Me?  Doing fine.  I posted a question on the other side about Omega Interferon.  There is a trial I might be able to get it -- but travel costs and time might be prohibitive.  
frijole
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Avatar universal
Don't know if it does me any good or not this late in treatment, but the dose increase of interferon is due to weight gain (!) during tx. I went from 67 kg to 75 kg. So I asked my doc if I could increase both the riba and the interferon, he went by the book (the Swedish book) and said okay to the interferon increase. I guess I function just like Tallahassee says: Give me drugs, more drugs, any drugs, the more the better, I just want to do as much as possible to get rid of this bug!

I read your post on the Omega Interferon, sounds interesting. Glad to hear you are doing fine! Zazza

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Avatar universal
Tallahassee,
12 weeks post and still UND! Great!

Interesting that your hemoglobin was better with riba than without. Maybe those egg yokes did it. Worth trying. I just don't want my doc to mess with my medication now before the extension. He still has not refilled my prescription, it makes me nervous. Wonder if my interferon increase can have affected the hemoglobin? Is that possible?

Pro,
My baseline hemoglobin was 15.2, which is high for a woman. So I am down 5.7 units by now. I am feeling okay though, thank god I do not need to work, I could not have done that. Spend a lot of time resting (lol). I am with you 100% on taking the shots in the morning, pleased to hear someone else functioning like me.

Anyone know what is considered too low hemoglobin?

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212705 tn?1221620650
Hi, I just wanted to pop in and say, hello. I'm so sorry to hear that you're dragging 'cause of low hmg. and worry. You are in my prayers today. I'm gonna google and see what I can find out about other alternatives. Tallahassee's idea of egg yolk sounds interesting and if it works what the heck. I still eat Ceasar salad and that has raw egg...maybe just put it in a blender and make a smoothee? I'll be back.
Yvonne
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212705 tn?1221620650
I know we are not to take iron supplements, but these foods are high in iron and are supposed to help raise hemoglobin. Susan400's np advised her to take shitake mushrooms for her low wbc and it did help. Please ask your dr. or his/her np about these foods to possibly help you.
winter squash
sweet potatoes
prune juice
meat & poultry (beef, beef & chicken liver, turkey, chicken)
mushrooms
sea vegetables (arame, dulse), algaes (spirulina), kelp
greens (spinach, chard, dandelion, beet, nettle, parsley, watercress)
yellow dock root  (i don't know anything about this one......)
grains (millet, brown rice, amaranth, quinoa, breads with these grains)
blackstrap molasses (try adding a little to cereal or rice)
brewer's yeast
dried beans (lima, lentils, kidney)
chili con carne with beans
tofu
egg yolks
grains (cooked cracked wheat, cornmeal, grits, farina, bran, breads with these grains)
tomato
dried fruit (figs, apricots, prunes, raisins)
meat (pork)
shellfish (clams, oysters, shrimp)
tuna, sardines

You are one strong lady, and you will get through this.

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Avatar universal
Tallahassee, thanks for the support, always great to have from an upper classman!!!

frijole, great to see you post, and your post was timely---as we speak I believe my Hep doc's NP is battling my insurance company for extended drugs with the copy of the berg study you so kindly provided. And good to see you still have hep fight left in you, something new will come along.

Geterdone, 3 cheers for cooler weather!!!! although today is pretty darn hot and humid!

zazza, not sure what is considered problematic hgb levels for a woman, if I remember correctly the threshold is lower than that of a man.

Yvonne, nice to see you post, one thing we can count on, your always here to support others, my hat is off to you........;^)

I'm out of breath (G), time to rest...;^)Pro
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212705 tn?1221620650
Awww, Thanks Pro
Ya made my day!
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173975 tn?1216257775
Hey guys,

thanks for thinking of me!

I agree that the sides have gotten worse the longer I'm on TX.  (Doing shot 37 of 72 and neupogen tomorrow).

The past two months have been difficult, much worse than the first six months.  i don't know how much of that has to do with the moving, insurance and financial stuff, things that are hard to deal with anyway that seem to be that much worse on TX.

Anyway, i sometimes think about quitting at week 48 but then again. . . does anyone  ever wanna do this again??????   NOOOOOOO.

So you'll probably see a lot of me during october and november as i BEG for reasons to continue.

Zazza . . .You have been such a ROCK and I'm soooo sorry you're having worse SX, now.

Also sorry to hear you had to increase meds.

My new theory as to why we slow responders appear to have worsening SX as time goes on is because now that we're UND and the virus is smostly gone the drugs are attacking everything else in our bodies . . .I remember when i first started reading that a lot of early responders seemed to have HORRENDOUS sides which i didn't get until month 5 or so.  (I mean, they were bad, but compared to now it was a walk in the park).

Pro -

has your mom made anymore blueberry pancakes lately?  *LOL*

Wish one of the flock would learn to cook.  of course I can't complain - they do regularly offer me sunflower seeds and gifts of regurgitated food about the same consistency of pancakes drowning in syrup . . .

Hey, i heard there's a huge motorcycle rally in East Durham sometime in September.  Let me know if you're gonna pass that way.  (Are you still ABLE to ride?)

Tallahassee, geterdone, Ladywhy, friole, all,

hope everyone is doing well.

As for me, I'm hoping the ride down the mountain is easier than the climb up.

Wyntre
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Avatar universal
Zazza: "Wonder if my interferon increase can have affected the hemoglobin? Is that possible?"

-- Absolutely! Interferon suppresses normal functioning of bone marrow ... probably due to the fact that bone marrow sees "free" interferon floating around and "assumes" that it doesn't have to work so hard anymore ... one of the possible explanations... Also, red blood cells amount greatly exceeds number of white blood cell, therefore, the white cells' production decrease in more noticeable than red blood cells (disclaimer: all of the above my personal theories).

I wish you all big, huge, may be even hairy :-) SVR!!!!!!!!!!!!
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223152 tn?1346978371
Thanks for swinging the compliment my way.  Always brightens my day.  I am glad the Berg is helpful.  I have been having discussions about EVR and RVR with Mag (we are both looking at the Omega Interferon Trial, but think we are backing off of it).  I personally wish they would throw the EVR out the door - or admit that its usefullness is to determine if one is responding

EVR being a 2-log drop at week 12.  Yes, that's nice, but in my book you need to be CLEAR at 12 weeks.  No detectible virons.  If one has virus at 12 weeks, I think extended treatment must be considered.

RVR on the other hand indicates UND at 4 weeks -- is that right? THat would be what I would want! (in a perfect world).  

Good luck to you , Pro.  Hope the insurance company sees the light.

wyn - I agree.  THe last half of treatment was definitley tougher on me than the first.  You are at 37 weeks?  I had hubby take a pic of me at 36 weeks.  Talk about the kiss of death.  Now I am just fat a sassy.  Stress definitely is a factor.  It was for me.

frijole
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173975 tn?1216257775
I can't rememeber all your stats - I think you were finished tx when i started reading forum in December, 2006.

Would you mind sharing how you managed to get your Dr. to agree to the 72 week TX or was it his idea?

Did you have any problems getting meds through insurance?

And, most importantly, how the heck are you doing now and how long HAS it been since you officially got SVR?

BTW, thanks for sharing that it got harder for you.   Makes me feel a little less weenie-whinie about my sx.

wyntre
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223152 tn?1346978371
First, I am not SVR.  Yes, I finished in August 06 so was still in the wind-down when you started.  I did have to talk my doctor into extending, but I foolishly used the Drusano model instead of the Berg study and talked him into txing 36 weeks after clearing (for a total of 56 weeks).  I thought that would be enough since I only had 40 IU/mL at week 12.  He was not going to let me, and then he finally did.  I had to assure him my insurance company would pay.  I had studies to give him but he didn't want them.

My situation was unique in that BC BS of Texas assigned me a case manager.  He volunteered to be my case manager because he had gone through the treatment (and SVR'ed).  He was a gem - so kind and caring and really understood.  We emailed back and forth all during tx.   He said, whatever the doc ordered, he would make sure  I got it (so all I had to do is convince the doctor).  He even set me up with a specialist in Dallas after I relapsed.  He was as crushed as I was.   I still email him occasionally to let him know what is going on.  I think, if I tx again, he will still be my case manager.

The first part of tx was easy for me.  I walked 3 miles 4 days a week thru about week 24.  Then winter hit and I started getting less active and then my job gets stressful Feb- Apr (I am a tax accountant) and I really crashed for awhile.  I quit all excercise and the couch was my friend.  It started getting better in the summer (maybe it was summer, maybe it was the routine and maybe it was because tax season was over).  THe last part of tx was exhausting totally but somehow normal, at that point.  Make any sense? Please do try to stick the 72 out.  I had to talk myself into my shot every week during overtime.  Wish I had done the whole 72. My VL is exactly where it was when I started.  But still I am lucky because I am a grade1, stage 1 and can wait it out awhile.
Good luck to you.
frijole
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173975 tn?1216257775
So sorry!  I'm such an airhead . . .i forgot you had relapsed . . .

But you sound really good . . . .

Thanks for the info about extending . . . yes, I'm at the point of having to talk myself into weekly injections at week 37 and I'm not as convincing as i once was. *LOL*

I'm grade 1, stage 1 as well.

How are you feeling?  Is it better, the same or worse than pre TX?

wyntre

w
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Avatar universal
BEAN....just wanted to say  "HELLO"......glad to hear the grade&stage is so low-down!......taking my 1 yr post-trx soon and still v apprehesive-**** leaves BIG scars-if and when yu trx again pls let me know and i will shower y'all with the best anti-sx,bar none.....FAREWELL
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Avatar universal
I'm sending wishes, hoping your sides will ease off as treatment progresses....
As to the buleberries, I'm blueberried out for this year....
blueberry perogis
blueberry muffins
blueberry pancakes
blueberry crumbcake
blueberry slump
blueberry pie
blueberries on ceral.................................................
Now were into blackberry season!!!! (vbg)
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173975 tn?1216257775
I was WONDERING why I hadn't seen any blueberries at the farmers market the past couple of weeks.

have seen (and bought) lots of blackberries, though.  Yummmmmy.

(Can ya tell I'm originally a city girl?)

wyn
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