I have been reading - with INTEREST - the Supplement Discussion - Thoughts and Questions?

[meki]

OK Check it out - I've been reading some of the posts regarding using HR's list of supplements (which I cannot find, btw... LOL - someone have a link?)

But I'm curious - would these supplements - help people who are SVR and trying to help the liver become more healthy?

Would the supplements work for a non HCV person - as a decent regimen for supplemental health?

Give me your thoughts on this.

I'm one year and a couple months post TX - and SVR... But I'm kinda interested in speeding along the recovery of my poor little liver. I'd like to see a better response to "GETTING BETTER".

Whatchu think?

I mean - CockSparrow's and Gauf's results are definitely much to think about. SERIOUSLY think about.

Meki

[zellyf]

Based on HR's recommendation and really good studies on milk thistle I've gone ahead and added it to my day.  Two of my doctors are skeptical but agree that no harm would be done.  If it has only a protective value then that's okay by me.

I also drink green tea.  And I've recently added curcumin to my regime.  There's TONS on the Hep C board from HR about curcumin.  I've also just started adding ground flax seed to some of my food.

I'd love to see my ALTs lowered but even if its just protective I'd take it.

I think any of these would have value for people w/o liver challenges but especially green tea and flax seed.

[eureka254]

I spent some time hunting for an actual list from HR too, but couldn't find it either (I'll be using Gauf's wonderful list, but I hope someone posts that link, too!), and I've been thinking the same vein as you, Meki, though from the other end of the spectrum.  

My husband hasn't treated yet, and getting 'clearance' to treat seems to be dragging on and on, and all I get from his docs when I ask about supplements/alternatives (cause though we're waiting, the virus isn't :P ! )... is 'No comment,' so I sorta put that to bed for a while... but CS's & Gauf's numbers are keeping the thought alive!

[meki]

Well - this is the only one I can find...

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/346752

But ok - check it out.. I'm not STOOOOOOPID... but dang - that left me feeling a bit uhmmm.... how can I say it?  Super under educated... LMAO!

Anyhow - I'm kinda looking for a simple fix: A shopping list to go to GNC or someplace with...

And I realize it probably is weight based ratios and stuff - so uhm - I'm lost there again too.

But I thought - heck - if CS can figure it out.. *Ducks* Then maybe someone could explain it to me... Yanno - those baby kind of explanations:

The pill bottle is white with green stripes - it has 30 pills in it - you will take 4 each day only one time - during dinner before sleeping and you should drink 2 cups of water per pill and they cost 29.95 per bottle at GNC.

OR something that simplistic.

Cause when I saw those results - I kinda sat back and thought about it for a couple of days.

Hmmmmmmmmm...

Yanno?

[geterdone]

Here is a link to Guaf’s journal where he has saved the list.

jasper


http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/2435

[evangelin]

What can be done to make HR's supplement list easier for people to find?

[Isobella]

I was up reading about this stuff last night.

I have been trying to incorporate some of Gauf's lists into my daily routine and have fallen in love with green tea.  I have been wondering about adding honey to sweeten it.  I know sugar is bad for us, but honey is loaded with anti-oxidents.  I just am worried it acts like sugar with our liver.  Any thoughts???

Also, the theory of prebiotics and probiotics seems to make sense.  The prebiotics trap the toxins from whatever we eat in our intestines,so they never have to go thru the liver-they just go thru as waste.  Probiotics are the good bacteria, most of us know about Activia and live yogurt cultures-all good for liver lovers.

I always take Milk Thistle.

  I think natural things that are beneficial to your liver anddigestive system are good for everyone because everyone they  has free-radicals whether they have any kink of illness or not.

Off to the health food store........

Isobella

[gauf]

Here is the supplement list.

a multi vitamin/no iron
1000 mg of Salmon Oil (epa=160 mg / dha=240 mg / omega 3 = 400 mg) x1
1000 mg of Flaxseed Oil (ALA/omega 3 450 mg / omega 9 110 mg) x1
Raw flaxseed/ 1 teaspoon daily

Hepatapro PPC (900 mg) x 2
info:  http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/346752  ;


Resveratrol (500 mg) x1  and x2 (alternate every other day)
info:   http://www.lef.org/resveratrol/
source:   http://megaresveratrol.com/


NAC (600 mg) x2 with Vit C (500 mg) x2
Info:   http://tinyurl.com/9yopf

TMG (750 mg) x 2
http://www.raysahelian.com/trimethylglycine.html

Taurine (500 mg) x 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine

Life Extension Super Curcumin W/Bioperine 800Mg 60 Caps (800 mg) x 2x 2 / Powerful Antioxidant Properties to scavenge free radicals
Anti-Inflammatory Actions
Enhances important detoxification enzymes

Sylmarin (425 mg) x 2 / Milk thistle provides hepatocellular protection by stabilizing hepatic cell membranes.

Green Tea Extract (300 mg) x 2 /
info:  http://tinyurl.com/ypdp9q

Coq10 (200 mg) x 1 / http://tinyurl.com/29em8c


Colon complete complex contains:
Fiber complex (2000 mg) x2
Lactobacillus F19 probiotic (14 mg) x 2
Lactospore prebiotic (20 mg) x2

I use Smartbomb.com as a source except for the Resveratrol.

I will go with Lactulose amd Lactobacillus GG when I use up what I have.

[gauf]

I have dug up "some" of the original posts by HR on the supplements. The above list is a comprehensive list of all his recommendations.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/346752  ;

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/44507.html

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/44136.html

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/messages/44654.html



What to take while on tox per HR

"The supplements while on tx question is difficult, because the ones having antifibrotic promise are almost all antiinflammatory, somewhat reducing the initiating events at the dendritic cell/lymphocyte interface.I know this sounds technical. Most of them also have, paradoxically an improving effect on some aspects of lymphocyte function, as the spectracell test clearly shows.

Bottom line, NO CLEAR ANSWER possible  regarding  use during tx.

But a moderate use of NAC/VitC, TMG, ALA ( those are quite cheap and possibly  PPC (since it was actually shown to help the SVR rate) is probably a good idea even during tx. Vit D3 is good, but it would be best to know ones serum level.
Also some Inulin is inexpensive (http://www.raysahelian.com/inulin.html) and a very good well researched prebiotic."  

Cannot get Lactulose here in the US  without script.  Available w/o script in Canada. Inulin is the alternative."


Hope this helps!

[gauf]

One other thought. I debated whether to post this list on the health page. I decided best not for me to do this as I have no authority on the efficacy or potentail side effects. For now the info is in my profile.  

[meki]

NO --- Gauf - just so you know... I am not looking for ANYONE who can tell side effects, high hootin' tootin' medical stuff... So no worries there mate.

I'm just looking for the list.

I'm pretty open minded about supplements... I mean heck I drink Rockstar Coffee (ROFLMAO) and it has a lot of those things in it --- and I feel better for days after I drink it.

And who hasn't heard of Centrum?

I mean - supplements are something that we, at least, Americans have incorporated into their daily lives with Milk and Breads and other items. So it isn't all that far fetched.

We see daily requirements, etc.

So - it makes sense that certain supplements or vitamins or foods would have a better effect or affect on different organs --- and may even provide better health or promote better healing.

So - I super much thank you for your list.

I'm going to research some of them - some of them I know. LOL!

Anyhow - more discussion - in plain speak - if you will....

Because I think that this is a GOOD topic to discuss... For both New people and people who have "been" there and seen what TX can do to you - or what the sides are...

I believe in using in conjunction, prior to --- or after TX --- is dependent on the person and their mindset and physical health.

But I know the SOC is hard --- and the damage is awful --- I'm looking for me --- to help speed up the healing process.

Hugs Gauf with a big bear hug -- thanks my friend for your info and your help!

Meki

[gauf]

Aw shucks maam,  you're mighty welcome.

I am a stage 4 so I really wanted to do something in between tox's to "hold" the damage. HR got me going down this path and I am grateful as it seems to be not only holding damage in check, but perhaps even reversing some of the damage!  

The "most" important thing to do first and foremost, is a healthy diet and exercise!    

The antiinflammatories we are aware of  i.e. milk thistle, green tea, curcumin, and resveratrol. These also have other benefits as well. The antifribotics are important for us stage 3's and 4's  obviously.

Use the links I have provided above.
NAC/Vit C combo is a must for good liver health.  It protects it from heavy metals and tylenol toxicity and is also helpful in fighting viral infections. It is an anti oxidant too.

[zellyf]

Which are considered the antifibrotics?

meki - I went to the Mayo Clinic and UMaryland websites for dosing.  It might give a rough idea.  then I learned the hard way not to take 300 mg of milk thistle in one shot.  Nothing terrible but did get a stomach ache I could have done without.

Someone suggested starting with one at low doses and building up and on to that.  Sounded like good advice.

[CockSparrow]

Read these links, Helps explain what each does.
http://www.smile.org.au/OtherMedicalTherapies/HepatitisC.htm
http://www.smile.org.au/OtherMedicalTherapies/HepatitisCRef.htm

Have to give serious consideration to adding Selenium

CS

[meki]

Thank you youse guys!

Meki

[gauf]

What are your thoughts on taking antiinflammatories on tox.

[gauf]

Quote from your supplied link above:

"Some clinicians have found that a combination of silymarin and silibinin, PPC, SAMe, selenium, and several glutathione-boosting supplements not only improves outcomes of patients who are treated, but also decreases the patient dropout rate due to fewer side effects from conventional antiviral therapy (interferon and ribavirin)."

As MT is an antinflammatory, wondering what the concensus is taking on tox. I have always read pretty much no,no,no, so maybe it is time to rethink this.

[Mikkimoe]

I was about to ask the antiflam question myself - As I have RA and had stopped my antiflams a while back (except 5 mg of prednisone). I added the flax-boarg oil/cottage cheese to take it's place - up to 2000 p/d (The Budwig diet) and have not had the RA flare I was expecting when starting tx 2 weeks ago (I do have bone ache though).

I also take alot of things on HR's list plus Glyco Gold nutriants. Wonder if I'm over doing it on the antiflams?

If it helps in my 2 week PCR yesterday my Alt had dropped to 37 from 124 at baseline 2 weeks ago. VL is not in yet. I must be doing something right.

[meki]

mikkimoe - be very careful about the prednisone. OK?

I've heard some very bad things about it --- haven't researched it thoroughly so don't know if it is a "PROVEN" "FACTUAL" bad thing.

But if you're going to be taking it - you might want to research it a bit --- OK?

But -- I'm thinking that Cs's links are awesome right now.


Hugs,

Meki

[Mikkimoe]

Hey There,

I have been on it for 14 yrs with my RA - my adrenal is hooked unfortunately. I have gotten down as far as I can with out passing out. Use to be 15 p/d. So 5mg is pretty good. I have severe systemic RA - 15 surgeries so far. I will be very closely monitored when and if I try to decrease it again. Still trying to get my adrenal to work on it's own with my nutritional plan. Hopefully some day.

[meki]

Yeah - well - I'm gonna send ya some extra hope.. LOL!

Hugs,

Meki

[CockSparrow]

>"Some clinicians have found that a combination of silymarin and silibinin, PPC, SAMe, >selenium, and several glutathione-boosting supplements not only improves outcomes of >patients who are treated, but also decreases the patient dropout rate due to fewer side >effects from conventional antiviral therapy (interferon and ribavirin)."

>As MT is an antinflammatory, wondering what the concensus is taking on tox. I have >always read pretty much no,no,no, so maybe it is time to rethink this

There is even a study that showed that MT improved IFN response in the lab.
My view is its still a bit iffy. Not enough evidence either way.
CS

[mike716]

Good info site for all supplements/nutrients:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/

[meki]

Thanks Mike - nice link.

Meki

[Trish77]

CS, was it you who posted in another thread about Milk Thistle that has been prepared using an alcohol wash and to watch out for that?  I couldn't find that thread.

If anyone knows about this, can you explain that please?  I want to be able to recommend Milk Thistle to certain people I know that either can't do tx or are between options at the moment and I want to make sure they're taking the right thing.  

How do you choose the RIGHT Milk Thistle?  Thanks.

Trish