Aa
Pitter/lighten up
Did you start treatment?
I don't remember too much these days.
maybe you're getting grumpy from the pain or the riba.
sh** happens, let it go.
Thank God these people have a sense of humor.
Laugh a little!
I don't remember too much these days.
maybe you're getting grumpy from the pain or the riba.
sh** happens, let it go.
Thank God these people have a sense of humor.
Laugh a little!
I would LOVE to know who these six qualified doctors are with whom you spoke.
Yes, God DOES have a special place in hell for snake oil salesmen like Wright (and others who I won't mention for fear people actually would GO to their sites) who prey on the fear and desperation of those sick with serious illnesses.
I do think its naive to think that someone who is going to charge you large quantities of money for a bogus cure would be anything BUT kind and helpful appearing. Pedophiles are like that too when they lure in young children.
Yes, God DOES have a special place in hell for snake oil salesmen like Wright (and others who I won't mention for fear people actually would GO to their sites) who prey on the fear and desperation of those sick with serious illnesses.
I do think its naive to think that someone who is going to charge you large quantities of money for a bogus cure would be anything BUT kind and helpful appearing. Pedophiles are like that too when they lure in young children.
There is truth in what you say about alternative medicine. I have hcv and cirrhosis and I have read Lloyd Wright's books. They are a great place to start, but thymus and/or multi glandular extracts have a poor record. The pushing of these substances by him at such a high cost is mistake on his part that has come back to haunt him. However, there is some research that indicates they have some small value. But don't give up on alternative medicine. It has helped me greatly, I wouldn't be here today without it. No alternative treatment or drug will make a significant difference in our condition without nourishing and maintaining the whole body first. That is just one of the problems with Lloyd's theories and conventional medicine. Combination Interferon Alpha2b therapy is very dangerous. My research supports this and my doctors (six of them so far) are very sceptical except in extreme cases. Conscience is changing the opinions of good doctors. One of the first axioms medical doctors are taught is "primum non nocere" (first do no harm). This marketing hype that is being spread by a small number of alternative medicine opportunist ( I am singling no one out) and prescriptiondrug companies is pathetic. I read a marketing page by one of the leading interferon manufacturers and this is an excerpt from it: Why should you have interferon therapy now? answer: You will never be stronger than you are now. How sad. What have come to? Conventional western medicine should integrate with naturophatic medicine. Profit opportunist should removed from the medical community no matter what name they go by.
At any rate, I hope everyone here remains in good health.
At any rate, I hope everyone here remains in good health.
Well there you go, sounds like this character is a farse. I believe maybe
some of what he professes maybe educated, but I for one ain't chewing or digesting any animal testicals although I hear monkey balls are a delicatessen in Singapore. Yuk! Lol
I'm sorry pitter I just couldn't help it. I really don't think anyone here is out to hurt anyone here and because we are all going through alot here with this damn disease, I do believe everyone here genuinely cares and wants the best for everyone. foremost to protect each other from making mistakes on our tx.
I also believe we all can tend to get a little testy, but look at we're all going through. It's tough stuff. You just need to be strong!
Missy
some of what he professes maybe educated, but I for one ain't chewing or digesting any animal testicals although I hear monkey balls are a delicatessen in Singapore. Yuk! Lol
I'm sorry pitter I just couldn't help it. I really don't think anyone here is out to hurt anyone here and because we are all going through alot here with this damn disease, I do believe everyone here genuinely cares and wants the best for everyone. foremost to protect each other from making mistakes on our tx.
I also believe we all can tend to get a little testy, but look at we're all going through. It's tough stuff. You just need to be strong!
Missy
meant to say "made up your mind" not "made up your made" but you'll probably twist that typographical error to mean something you want it to.
I've done nothing but take you at your word; word for word. In fact, I've responded directly in a very specific and detailed manner to YOUR response to my comments concerning Wright. I haven't told you what you believe or put words in your mouth. I've repeatedly quoted you verbatim fully within the context of this thread, and responded specifically to those quotes. And I've given you every opportunity to clarify yourself and go into much more detail about your defense of Wright. If you choose to now take the fifth after your initial supporting statement about Wright, that's your problem, not mine.
Speaking for myself, I choose NOT to take the fifth. I'll speak openly and forthrightly about Wright and his glands and make no apologies about it. I'll also confront anyone like you who attempts to contradict or dilute the truth by either directly or indirectly defending or supporting someone like Wright. And you should rightly expect to be challenged and debated if you do voice support for such a controversial and disputed figure as Wright (and his glandular treatment regimen). You should especially expect to be able to substantiate your support/defense of Wright, and by extension his claims on this forum. So that's why I've repeatedly queried you to clarify and flesh out your position in support of Wright in more detail. No surprises, you have refused to do so and remain deliberately evasive and vague about clarifying a subject that YOU brought up (and was a direct challenge to what myself and others had said about Wright). I think it's obvious at this point you are refusing to clarify your original sentiments because you now realize you're speaking with a group of people who generally know what they're talking about when it comes to matters related to HCV and its treatment. People who are not easily duped by the usual lazy, generic dumbisms proffered by those who support people and ideas that are without merit.
Sorry it had to come down to this, but anytime you want to respond to the salient SPECIFICS mentioned above, please feel free to do so.
Speaking for myself, I choose NOT to take the fifth. I'll speak openly and forthrightly about Wright and his glands and make no apologies about it. I'll also confront anyone like you who attempts to contradict or dilute the truth by either directly or indirectly defending or supporting someone like Wright. And you should rightly expect to be challenged and debated if you do voice support for such a controversial and disputed figure as Wright (and his glandular treatment regimen). You should especially expect to be able to substantiate your support/defense of Wright, and by extension his claims on this forum. So that's why I've repeatedly queried you to clarify and flesh out your position in support of Wright in more detail. No surprises, you have refused to do so and remain deliberately evasive and vague about clarifying a subject that YOU brought up (and was a direct challenge to what myself and others had said about Wright). I think it's obvious at this point you are refusing to clarify your original sentiments because you now realize you're speaking with a group of people who generally know what they're talking about when it comes to matters related to HCV and its treatment. People who are not easily duped by the usual lazy, generic dumbisms proffered by those who support people and ideas that are without merit.
Sorry it had to come down to this, but anytime you want to respond to the salient SPECIFICS mentioned above, please feel free to do so.
wow
You have obviously made up your made as to what I meant no matter what I have to say to the contrary. You have judged me and labeled me and presume to know how I think and what I think. It's a waste of my time to continue this.
Your responses are typical of someone who defends a person like Lloyd Wright. Lets review how this nearly always plays out:
1. Negative factual comments are made about Lloyd Wright by myself or others based on the fact that he is a dishonest scam artist preying on people sick with HCV. (which he is)
2. Some person, usually a proponent of herbal/natural/alternative therapies and usually hostile in some way to conventional FDA approved treatment (but not always), steps in and defends Lloyd Wright in some fashion. The defense is usually laced with comments/impliances about how arrogant or ignorant "us westerners" are in reference to eastern philosophy and medical practices (with the tacit impliance that eastern philosophy and/or medical practices are more "enlightened" than their western equivalents). And how Wright is "just trying to get the word out" for those willing to listen (or some variation on that theme).
3. The defender of Wright is always vague, non-specific and usually goes on at length about how nice Wright is, or how helpful he was, or how the modern medical community is conspiring against naturalists like Wright and their remedies to prevent a more effective and humane treatment from being used and accepted. (or some variation on those themes)
4. The person is then confronted with their statements and asked about SPECIFICS. What did Wright say to them? SPECIFICALLY. What did they ask Wright? SPECIFICALLY. Did they actually use Wright's cow gland therapy? Did it cure them, OR NOT? If they didn't take the therapy, WHY NOT? SPECIFICS - SPECIFICS - SPECIFICS. DETAILS - DETAILS - DETAILS.
5. As soon as the request for SPECIFICS and DETAILS are put forward to the supporter/apologist of Lloyd Wright (that being you in this case) and that person is pointedly challenged, then one of three things happens: (a) they clam up and fall silent, (b) they go off on irrelevant tangents and/or (c) evasive red herrings are produced in the form of ad homs in order to avoid answering the meaningful and perfectly reasonable questions that have been raised as a consequence of their defense of Wright. Realizing they have a scientifically minded and educated audience, and perhaps simultaneously coming to the realization that they don't know as much as they might have previously thought about Lloyd Wright - they then say "I'm not trying to defend him, that's just what I heard..." or some variation on that theme. In almost all cases these "defenders" have NOT taken Wright's cow gland regimen themselves, nor do they have any personal experience with it, nor do they know any bona-fide person who has been cured by it either. So, if the defender openly, honestly and directly responded to the SPECIFIC questions repeatedly posed above, it would instantly expose their hollow argument and deficit in reasoning very quickly. And that's precisely why you haven't responded to the questions posed above...isn't it?
"I'm not going to get into another long discourse on this however I NEVER said one thing re: cow thymus, that was you putting words in my mouth."
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I spoke before you did about Wright to pitter, and specifically discussed Wright's claims about cow thymus. You then responded to my comment and others posing defending remarks about Wright (which again pertained to his COW THYMUS regimen). Cow thymus IS Wright's claim to fame. It IS the "magical ingredient" he sells and pimps on his websites with a measure of exclusivity. Cow thymus is THE most touted ingredient and THE key to treatment success according to Wright in his book (which I purchased and have read...have you??). If you have any further doubts about this, please visit his website and take a look at the most expensive thing he is selling there. Take a look at what he deems as being the most important element in his treatment regimen. Wright sells a conventional mish mash of "liver herbs" like a zillion other herbal websites, but the real crown jewel is his cow thymus. Something not commonly available everywhere else. It's his niche, it's his claim to fame, it's what distinguishes Wright from any other garden variety herbalist. And of course it's what he wanted to sell YOU when you quoted his regimen above as being $1000/month (and it's up to $1600 for the deluxe-o-matic now, incidentally). So if you're defending Wright, by definition, you're defending cow thymus therapy for HCV. That's what Wright's about, that's what he's an advocate of - presumably you learned that much in your dealings with him and after reading his books, no?? Take a look at Lloyd's website and all 5 of "Lloyd's Alternative Programs". They ALL contain thymus, and the "better" the program, the more thymus there is in it:
http://www.hepcsolutions.com/programs.htm
"I never said anything about Lloyd Wright's legitimacy. That is you interpreting my dealings with him to be me defending him."
As already mentioned above, you WERE defending Wright and you were speaking on behalf of his legitimacy. Wright was attacked by myself and others here, and you took issue with us (mostly me) on that count. You spoke positively of Wright and generally defended his integrity. You said his knowledge was consistent with what you had read elswhere from other sources. Please do not deny that or attempt to now obfuscate what you said. Once again, here's what you said to refresh your memory:
liv quote: "I did communicate with him [Wright] via e-mail and bought his books. Never at any point however did he "push" his protocol on me but patiently answered as many of my panicked questions and concerns as he was able. His answers and knowledge was consistent with other sources and I also found him to be compassionate and timely in his responses and as I've mentioned he never once pushed his products. He was upfront with the cost ($700 - $1,000.00/ MONTH)"
"You also claim that other people know a lot more about Alternative medicine than I do, how do you know that? You know nothing about me."
First off it's not true to say I "know nothing of you". I know what you have stated about Lloyd Wright, you have made your thoughts known on that matter. And that's what we're currently discussing, my response to you is based on your stated beliefs. As to how do I know there are others that have more knowledge about alternative therapies than you do? Simple, because I'm one of them (and believe me there are others here too). Also, are you implying you know more than anyone else here about alternative treatments? There are some pretty sharp cookies here, I'd be careful intimating superior knowledge on this topic. Your defense of Wright exihibits your general lack of knowledge and lack of critical thought on the matter right up front. Especially when you are not willing, nor able to back up your defense of Wright when tasked to do so.
"When I say that Lloyd's info. jived with what I learned from other sources (Infectious Disease Doctors, info. from the NIH and CDC, Herbalists, Research nurses involved in clinical trials) I was speaking GENERALLY about the Hep C virus, I wasn't speaking about his claims."
Once again, Lloyd Wright's primary claim to fame is cow thymus and its use in the treatment in HCV, as specifically stated in my post which preceded your response. Cow Thymus is the centerpiece of Wright's empire. You mean to tell me when you spoke with Wright he didn't even mention his "NatCell" extract or what it could do for you? If so, that'd be awfully odd considering that's his claim to fame, and that's primarily what he advocates (along with avoiding interferon at all costs). It would especially be odd considering you quoted his regimen above as costing $700-$1000/month. Obviously you know what Wright's claims are regarding cow thymus and that he sells cow thymus as you clearly and obviously discussed it with him. So when you say what he told you "jived" with what you learned from "Infectious Disease Doctors, the NIH and CDC", then by definition you're saying Wright's claims via cow thymus are backed up by medical doctors, the CDC and the NIH. Of course, that's absurd and patently false. That's absolutely not true, and if you have legitimate evidence to the contrary, then by all means please post it. Meanwhile, not to be a cynic, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.
1. Negative factual comments are made about Lloyd Wright by myself or others based on the fact that he is a dishonest scam artist preying on people sick with HCV. (which he is)
2. Some person, usually a proponent of herbal/natural/alternative therapies and usually hostile in some way to conventional FDA approved treatment (but not always), steps in and defends Lloyd Wright in some fashion. The defense is usually laced with comments/impliances about how arrogant or ignorant "us westerners" are in reference to eastern philosophy and medical practices (with the tacit impliance that eastern philosophy and/or medical practices are more "enlightened" than their western equivalents). And how Wright is "just trying to get the word out" for those willing to listen (or some variation on that theme).
3. The defender of Wright is always vague, non-specific and usually goes on at length about how nice Wright is, or how helpful he was, or how the modern medical community is conspiring against naturalists like Wright and their remedies to prevent a more effective and humane treatment from being used and accepted. (or some variation on those themes)
4. The person is then confronted with their statements and asked about SPECIFICS. What did Wright say to them? SPECIFICALLY. What did they ask Wright? SPECIFICALLY. Did they actually use Wright's cow gland therapy? Did it cure them, OR NOT? If they didn't take the therapy, WHY NOT? SPECIFICS - SPECIFICS - SPECIFICS. DETAILS - DETAILS - DETAILS.
5. As soon as the request for SPECIFICS and DETAILS are put forward to the supporter/apologist of Lloyd Wright (that being you in this case) and that person is pointedly challenged, then one of three things happens: (a) they clam up and fall silent, (b) they go off on irrelevant tangents and/or (c) evasive red herrings are produced in the form of ad homs in order to avoid answering the meaningful and perfectly reasonable questions that have been raised as a consequence of their defense of Wright. Realizing they have a scientifically minded and educated audience, and perhaps simultaneously coming to the realization that they don't know as much as they might have previously thought about Lloyd Wright - they then say "I'm not trying to defend him, that's just what I heard..." or some variation on that theme. In almost all cases these "defenders" have NOT taken Wright's cow gland regimen themselves, nor do they have any personal experience with it, nor do they know any bona-fide person who has been cured by it either. So, if the defender openly, honestly and directly responded to the SPECIFIC questions repeatedly posed above, it would instantly expose their hollow argument and deficit in reasoning very quickly. And that's precisely why you haven't responded to the questions posed above...isn't it?
"I'm not going to get into another long discourse on this however I NEVER said one thing re: cow thymus, that was you putting words in my mouth."
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I spoke before you did about Wright to pitter, and specifically discussed Wright's claims about cow thymus. You then responded to my comment and others posing defending remarks about Wright (which again pertained to his COW THYMUS regimen). Cow thymus IS Wright's claim to fame. It IS the "magical ingredient" he sells and pimps on his websites with a measure of exclusivity. Cow thymus is THE most touted ingredient and THE key to treatment success according to Wright in his book (which I purchased and have read...have you??). If you have any further doubts about this, please visit his website and take a look at the most expensive thing he is selling there. Take a look at what he deems as being the most important element in his treatment regimen. Wright sells a conventional mish mash of "liver herbs" like a zillion other herbal websites, but the real crown jewel is his cow thymus. Something not commonly available everywhere else. It's his niche, it's his claim to fame, it's what distinguishes Wright from any other garden variety herbalist. And of course it's what he wanted to sell YOU when you quoted his regimen above as being $1000/month (and it's up to $1600 for the deluxe-o-matic now, incidentally). So if you're defending Wright, by definition, you're defending cow thymus therapy for HCV. That's what Wright's about, that's what he's an advocate of - presumably you learned that much in your dealings with him and after reading his books, no?? Take a look at Lloyd's website and all 5 of "Lloyd's Alternative Programs". They ALL contain thymus, and the "better" the program, the more thymus there is in it:
http://www.hepcsolutions.com/programs.htm
"I never said anything about Lloyd Wright's legitimacy. That is you interpreting my dealings with him to be me defending him."
As already mentioned above, you WERE defending Wright and you were speaking on behalf of his legitimacy. Wright was attacked by myself and others here, and you took issue with us (mostly me) on that count. You spoke positively of Wright and generally defended his integrity. You said his knowledge was consistent with what you had read elswhere from other sources. Please do not deny that or attempt to now obfuscate what you said. Once again, here's what you said to refresh your memory:
liv quote: "I did communicate with him [Wright] via e-mail and bought his books. Never at any point however did he "push" his protocol on me but patiently answered as many of my panicked questions and concerns as he was able. His answers and knowledge was consistent with other sources and I also found him to be compassionate and timely in his responses and as I've mentioned he never once pushed his products. He was upfront with the cost ($700 - $1,000.00/ MONTH)"
"You also claim that other people know a lot more about Alternative medicine than I do, how do you know that? You know nothing about me."
First off it's not true to say I "know nothing of you". I know what you have stated about Lloyd Wright, you have made your thoughts known on that matter. And that's what we're currently discussing, my response to you is based on your stated beliefs. As to how do I know there are others that have more knowledge about alternative therapies than you do? Simple, because I'm one of them (and believe me there are others here too). Also, are you implying you know more than anyone else here about alternative treatments? There are some pretty sharp cookies here, I'd be careful intimating superior knowledge on this topic. Your defense of Wright exihibits your general lack of knowledge and lack of critical thought on the matter right up front. Especially when you are not willing, nor able to back up your defense of Wright when tasked to do so.
"When I say that Lloyd's info. jived with what I learned from other sources (Infectious Disease Doctors, info. from the NIH and CDC, Herbalists, Research nurses involved in clinical trials) I was speaking GENERALLY about the Hep C virus, I wasn't speaking about his claims."
Once again, Lloyd Wright's primary claim to fame is cow thymus and its use in the treatment in HCV, as specifically stated in my post which preceded your response. Cow Thymus is the centerpiece of Wright's empire. You mean to tell me when you spoke with Wright he didn't even mention his "NatCell" extract or what it could do for you? If so, that'd be awfully odd considering that's his claim to fame, and that's primarily what he advocates (along with avoiding interferon at all costs). It would especially be odd considering you quoted his regimen above as costing $700-$1000/month. Obviously you know what Wright's claims are regarding cow thymus and that he sells cow thymus as you clearly and obviously discussed it with him. So when you say what he told you "jived" with what you learned from "Infectious Disease Doctors, the NIH and CDC", then by definition you're saying Wright's claims via cow thymus are backed up by medical doctors, the CDC and the NIH. Of course, that's absurd and patently false. That's absolutely not true, and if you have legitimate evidence to the contrary, then by all means please post it. Meanwhile, not to be a cynic, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.
I'm not going to get into another long discourse on this however I NEVER said one thing re: cow thymus, that was you putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about Lloyd Wright's legitimacy. That is you interpreting my dealings with him to be me defending him. I never said that this particular thread put down Alternative medicine or treatments. I've read other threads on this forum in the past that have. You also claim that other people know a lot more about Alternative medicine than I do, how do you know that? You know nothing about me. When I say that Lloyd's info. jived with what I learned from other sources (Infectious Disease Doctors, info. from the NIH and CDC, Herbalists, Research nurses involved in clinical trials) I was speaking GENERALLY about the Hep C virus, I wasn't speaking about his claims. You continue to quote me but interpret what I had meant to be as a support of Pitter to me supporting and defending Lloyd Wright.
liv quote: "I wasn't defending Lloyd Wright, it was a response to Pitter since she had previously asked if anyone knew anything about him or had any dealings with him which I've had."
Yes you were defending Lloyd Wright, you said he was kind, compassionate and took the time to listen to you and what he said was in accordance with what you had heard/read elsewhere. You then went on to explain how rudely people are dismissive of alternative therapies like cow thymus because we're arrogant, narrow minded westerners. Which, presumably you don't think the same of Wright because he sells cow thymus and lives in Malibu. Well, again, you're free to your opinions. But expect you'll be challenged on your opinions, claims and statements if they're false or misleading.
"I was merely relating my short interchange with Lloyd Wright not promoting his products or his claims so I suggest that you "lighten up"."
You were attempting to contractict what was said about Wright and effectively come to his defense by indicating he was a nice man, a compassionate man who answered your questions in a timely manner. And you also asserted he sounded legitimate and what he said concurred with what you had heard elsewhere from reputable sources. This is what you're being challenged on, and you were specifically questioned on what you had asked him and what he had said to you so we can gage for ourselves the nature of what he was saying. No surprises, you're very short on specifics and failed to provide those specifics which would be needed to assess his legitimacy and the legitimacy of your defense of Wright. Why is that?? If you're interested in enlightening us on Wright's glands, please do so. I'm sure everyone would like to know about it, as you might know many wish to avoid the perils of IFN/riba and now telaprevir. As requested in the last post, why don't you explain in specific details what Wright said in response to your specific questions? Are you unable or unwilling to do that? If so, why?
"And I was referring to the often arrogant attitude of this culture to put down remedies of EASTERN cultures. They've been at it for thousands of years and some on this forum equate herbs with "snake oils". That's pretty arrogant if you ask me."
Who expressed a blanket arrogant attitude against traditional medicine within the context of this thread? That didn't happen, you've mischaracterized the situation. The dismissiveness is directed at Lloyd Wright, plain and simple. I don't dismiss all traditional medicine, I do my best to keep an open mind about alternative therapies, as many do here. I've taken all sorts of alternative herbs/supplements over the years, including tons of milk thistle, dandelion root, licorice, ginseng, spirulina, alpha lipoic acic, NaC, green tea, Vit A, C, E, etc etc etc. I also bought Lloyd Wright's book years ago, expended quite a bit of time learning about what he had to say about his experience and "treatment". I didn't dismiss him out of hand at all, I kept an open mind and gave him a chance and listened to what he had to say - that's why I bought his book and looked into him in the first place. Plus many of the others here are very open minded about alternative therapies, but they're more educated than you are about them and realize what alternative therapies can and cannot do. And speak accordingly when these same questions pop up from time to time. So please, don't attempt to throw out a fallacious straw man argument that no one has posited. The issue at hand is about L Wright and his legitimacy. And again, you've been repeatedly asked specifically about why we should believe cow thymus is going to cure or provide a strong benefit to those with HCV. So what it is???
"...anxiety which can lead (some of) us to explore/research claims by people such as Lloyd Wright. I felt that some of the comments to her simple question about Lloyd Wright were demeaning so I wrote of my experience with him."
The experience where he was a nice and compassionate man? Anything else to add? Like did his glands work for you? Or did you even try his glands? And if you didn't, why not?? $1600/month for an effective HCV antiviral therapy free of interferon and ribavirin capable of curing you is a BARGAIN. A lot cheaper than IFN and riba and a lot better for you...right? So why not sign up right away?
"Let's try to remember that we're all in this together."
We sure are. And because we are we should try to help one another with facts and wisdom we have learned during our long struggles. We should protect our friends from predatory scam artists and to steer them away from those that would take advantage of them in their moment of weakness and ignorance.
"By the way, if they found out that freeze-dried Yak testicles cured Hep C would you try it?"
That depends on who "they" are and how effective the freeze dried yak testes were found to be, and what its side effect profile was. If it passed muster in all those departments to my satisfaction, then damn right - I'd snort the **** if need be. Your point being??
Yes you were defending Lloyd Wright, you said he was kind, compassionate and took the time to listen to you and what he said was in accordance with what you had heard/read elsewhere. You then went on to explain how rudely people are dismissive of alternative therapies like cow thymus because we're arrogant, narrow minded westerners. Which, presumably you don't think the same of Wright because he sells cow thymus and lives in Malibu. Well, again, you're free to your opinions. But expect you'll be challenged on your opinions, claims and statements if they're false or misleading.
"I was merely relating my short interchange with Lloyd Wright not promoting his products or his claims so I suggest that you "lighten up"."
You were attempting to contractict what was said about Wright and effectively come to his defense by indicating he was a nice man, a compassionate man who answered your questions in a timely manner. And you also asserted he sounded legitimate and what he said concurred with what you had heard elsewhere from reputable sources. This is what you're being challenged on, and you were specifically questioned on what you had asked him and what he had said to you so we can gage for ourselves the nature of what he was saying. No surprises, you're very short on specifics and failed to provide those specifics which would be needed to assess his legitimacy and the legitimacy of your defense of Wright. Why is that?? If you're interested in enlightening us on Wright's glands, please do so. I'm sure everyone would like to know about it, as you might know many wish to avoid the perils of IFN/riba and now telaprevir. As requested in the last post, why don't you explain in specific details what Wright said in response to your specific questions? Are you unable or unwilling to do that? If so, why?
"And I was referring to the often arrogant attitude of this culture to put down remedies of EASTERN cultures. They've been at it for thousands of years and some on this forum equate herbs with "snake oils". That's pretty arrogant if you ask me."
Who expressed a blanket arrogant attitude against traditional medicine within the context of this thread? That didn't happen, you've mischaracterized the situation. The dismissiveness is directed at Lloyd Wright, plain and simple. I don't dismiss all traditional medicine, I do my best to keep an open mind about alternative therapies, as many do here. I've taken all sorts of alternative herbs/supplements over the years, including tons of milk thistle, dandelion root, licorice, ginseng, spirulina, alpha lipoic acic, NaC, green tea, Vit A, C, E, etc etc etc. I also bought Lloyd Wright's book years ago, expended quite a bit of time learning about what he had to say about his experience and "treatment". I didn't dismiss him out of hand at all, I kept an open mind and gave him a chance and listened to what he had to say - that's why I bought his book and looked into him in the first place. Plus many of the others here are very open minded about alternative therapies, but they're more educated than you are about them and realize what alternative therapies can and cannot do. And speak accordingly when these same questions pop up from time to time. So please, don't attempt to throw out a fallacious straw man argument that no one has posited. The issue at hand is about L Wright and his legitimacy. And again, you've been repeatedly asked specifically about why we should believe cow thymus is going to cure or provide a strong benefit to those with HCV. So what it is???
"...anxiety which can lead (some of) us to explore/research claims by people such as Lloyd Wright. I felt that some of the comments to her simple question about Lloyd Wright were demeaning so I wrote of my experience with him."
The experience where he was a nice and compassionate man? Anything else to add? Like did his glands work for you? Or did you even try his glands? And if you didn't, why not?? $1600/month for an effective HCV antiviral therapy free of interferon and ribavirin capable of curing you is a BARGAIN. A lot cheaper than IFN and riba and a lot better for you...right? So why not sign up right away?
"Let's try to remember that we're all in this together."
We sure are. And because we are we should try to help one another with facts and wisdom we have learned during our long struggles. We should protect our friends from predatory scam artists and to steer them away from those that would take advantage of them in their moment of weakness and ignorance.
"By the way, if they found out that freeze-dried Yak testicles cured Hep C would you try it?"
That depends on who "they" are and how effective the freeze dried yak testes were found to be, and what its side effect profile was. If it passed muster in all those departments to my satisfaction, then damn right - I'd snort the **** if need be. Your point being??
I wasn't defending Lloyd Wright, it was a response to Pitter since she had previously asked if anyone knew anything about him or had any dealings with him which I've had. She had asked a question and received several rude and flip comments from some on this forum. Then she was told to "lighten up" when she responded to your comments. I was merely relating my short interchange with Lloyd Wright not promoting his products or his claims so I suggest that you "lighten up". And I was referring to the often arrogant attitude of this culture to put down remedies of EASTERN cultures. They've been at it for thousands of years and some on this forum equate herbs with "snake oils". That's pretty arrogant if you ask me. When I said desperate times call for desperate measures I meant to say desperate times LEAD to desperate measures which was to convey to Pitter that I understood the anxiety which can lead (some of) us to explore/research claims by people such as Lloyd Wright. I felt that some of the comments to her simple question about Lloyd Wright were demeaning so I wrote of my experience with him. I find some of the people on this forum quick to pounce. If you have a problem with some of the posts instead of the instant attacks and challenges why don't you simply ask "what did you mean when you said/wrote that" or "am I understanding you correctly when you say" etc. A little politeness goes a long way. Let's try to remember that we're all in this together. By the way, if they found out that freeze-dried Yak testicles cured Hep C would you try it?
I too want to weigh in and say I agree with all MreMeet says on the subject of the charlatan that goes by the name Lloyd Wright.
This clown is not even a doctor. He is however a rich man, he got that way off the fears of sick people.
I hope they reserve a special place in the Inferno for people of his ilk.
I also agree that anyone who gives him props is helping to proliferate his business and does no service to those with this disease.
Snake Oil salesmen should not be promoted here.
This clown is not even a doctor. He is however a rich man, he got that way off the fears of sick people.
I hope they reserve a special place in the Inferno for people of his ilk.
I also agree that anyone who gives him props is helping to proliferate his business and does no service to those with this disease.
Snake Oil salesmen should not be promoted here.
Agree completely with mre (sp?)
A few years ago drug Zadaxin (sp?) was added to SOC. Zadaxin is based on thymus (I believe). Clinical trials were conducted,,, and addition of thymus (via injections!) to SOC did not improve SVR rate for SOC. Therefore, this drug was never approved.
Theoretically, it may sound quiet impressive, but on practice ... it is not efficient at all!
Good luck!
A few years ago drug Zadaxin (sp?) was added to SOC. Zadaxin is based on thymus (I believe). Clinical trials were conducted,,, and addition of thymus (via injections!) to SOC did not improve SVR rate for SOC. Therefore, this drug was never approved.
Theoretically, it may sound quiet impressive, but on practice ... it is not efficient at all!
Good luck!
I'm going to have to differ strongly with some of the things you've said about Lloyd Wright. You appear to be defending him and legitimizing his sale's pitch. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but unless you have some kind of substantiated proof to verify Wright's claims, it's wrong to defend him. I'll specifically respond to some of your comments below:
"I did communicate with him via e-mail and bought his books. Never at any point however did he "push" his protocol on me but patiently answered as many of my panicked questions and concerns as he was able."
So he was a nice man to you and answered your questions? What would you expect, for him to be a "not nice" man? A rude and impatient man who wouldn't answer your questions? Of course not, how else would he be able to convince you to ante up $1000-$2000 a month for his products?? And what were your SPECIFIC questions and what were his SPECIFIC answers to you? Why don't you quote both yourself and his responses so we can see what he said to you? Speaking for myself, I've read his book, extensively gone through his websites and its claims, and have listened to him speak in "paid programming" softball interviews (which you can acess on his website). I have a very detailed idea of what he says and tells his customers. Wright is dishonest and he's defrauding innocent and vulnerable people who are suffering from a life threatening disease. I'm sorry, but that's a plain fact. He's also giving false hope to those that could very well be at death's door with cirrhosis or extensive liver damage. Causing them to postpone or give up treatment altogether with the FDA approved drugs that actually have some chance of curing them AND saving their lives. This can, and probably already has in some cases, resulted in the deaths of those who have accepted his claims hook line and sinker. Does that make him a nice man? Knowing these facts, should we now wear kid gloves when discussing someone like Lloyd Wright? I certainly don't think do, do you?
"His answers and knowledge was consistent with other sources and I also found him to be compassionate and timely in his responses and as I've mentioned he never once pushed his products. He was upfront with the cost ($700 - $1,000.00/ MONTH) - total insanity"
REALLY?? His answers and claims were consistent with WHAT other sources? Specifically, what answers and claims? Especially those pertaining to what his special claim to fame is (i.e. cow thymus)? What "other sources" back up and verify his claims concerning cow glands in those with HCV? And again, is it surprising he would be compassionate and timely in his responses? Does this imply or indicate in some way he's honest and isn't attempting to mislead you? I can assure you compassion and sincerity can be convincingly feigned by any con man (especially over the internet). And responding quickly to a potential customer's emails is something he must do. It ain't easy to find someone who both (a) has access to $1600/month and (b) is willing to consistently cough up that kind of dough for years at a time. You have to really "work the program" to find a customer like that and to get them to go along with it. You do understand that reality, right?
"- but desperate times call for desperate measures"
No, desperate times don't call for desperate measures. Desperate times call for calm rational thought, intelligently managed risk taking based on facts, and an effective well thought out strategy. Not blindly buying into the bogus claims of some con-man.
"However to put down these remedies ( not cures) I think is extremely arrogant of our western culture."
So cow thymus is a "remedy"? Really, what kind of remedy is it? Please enlighten me as to what type of remedy cow thymus is for someone with hepatitis C? And is it "arrogant" of me or anyone else to think cow thymus isn't going to help or cure anyone with hep c?? Please explain your position, because frankly you're not making much sense.
"I did communicate with him via e-mail and bought his books. Never at any point however did he "push" his protocol on me but patiently answered as many of my panicked questions and concerns as he was able."
So he was a nice man to you and answered your questions? What would you expect, for him to be a "not nice" man? A rude and impatient man who wouldn't answer your questions? Of course not, how else would he be able to convince you to ante up $1000-$2000 a month for his products?? And what were your SPECIFIC questions and what were his SPECIFIC answers to you? Why don't you quote both yourself and his responses so we can see what he said to you? Speaking for myself, I've read his book, extensively gone through his websites and its claims, and have listened to him speak in "paid programming" softball interviews (which you can acess on his website). I have a very detailed idea of what he says and tells his customers. Wright is dishonest and he's defrauding innocent and vulnerable people who are suffering from a life threatening disease. I'm sorry, but that's a plain fact. He's also giving false hope to those that could very well be at death's door with cirrhosis or extensive liver damage. Causing them to postpone or give up treatment altogether with the FDA approved drugs that actually have some chance of curing them AND saving their lives. This can, and probably already has in some cases, resulted in the deaths of those who have accepted his claims hook line and sinker. Does that make him a nice man? Knowing these facts, should we now wear kid gloves when discussing someone like Lloyd Wright? I certainly don't think do, do you?
"His answers and knowledge was consistent with other sources and I also found him to be compassionate and timely in his responses and as I've mentioned he never once pushed his products. He was upfront with the cost ($700 - $1,000.00/ MONTH) - total insanity"
REALLY?? His answers and claims were consistent with WHAT other sources? Specifically, what answers and claims? Especially those pertaining to what his special claim to fame is (i.e. cow thymus)? What "other sources" back up and verify his claims concerning cow glands in those with HCV? And again, is it surprising he would be compassionate and timely in his responses? Does this imply or indicate in some way he's honest and isn't attempting to mislead you? I can assure you compassion and sincerity can be convincingly feigned by any con man (especially over the internet). And responding quickly to a potential customer's emails is something he must do. It ain't easy to find someone who both (a) has access to $1600/month and (b) is willing to consistently cough up that kind of dough for years at a time. You have to really "work the program" to find a customer like that and to get them to go along with it. You do understand that reality, right?
"- but desperate times call for desperate measures"
No, desperate times don't call for desperate measures. Desperate times call for calm rational thought, intelligently managed risk taking based on facts, and an effective well thought out strategy. Not blindly buying into the bogus claims of some con-man.
"However to put down these remedies ( not cures) I think is extremely arrogant of our western culture."
So cow thymus is a "remedy"? Really, what kind of remedy is it? Please enlighten me as to what type of remedy cow thymus is for someone with hepatitis C? And is it "arrogant" of me or anyone else to think cow thymus isn't going to help or cure anyone with hep c?? Please explain your position, because frankly you're not making much sense.
There are several Traditional Chinese practitioners who advertise on the Internet, among them Dr. Zhang and Dr. Ren. Both in NYC. They both suggest you monitor lab work while on their herbs and neither one mentions the "C" word.
thank you..that was exactly how i felt. lloyd was compassionate, and quick to answere ...like you said...but i don't buy everything i read..even tho it seems like an easier way...i never got that far as to talk price,(that is outrageous) well that is why i asked around about him ... how do ya know what is the way to go...it's hard to know..
but from the feed back here...i am just going to wait , get more info, get the fibrosure tests..and go from there...
thanks so much for your support!!!!
but from the feed back here...i am just going to wait , get more info, get the fibrosure tests..and go from there...
thanks so much for your support!!!!
I think if I went through SOC treatment, tried it again, modified it, and still couldn't achieve SVR, then would I look to alternatives. And in that case, I have a hunch that Traditional Chinese Medicine would be a better place to look than some guy who advertises on the internet. Maybe the same if I had no liver damage, but I'd monitor my liver very closely while taking those herbs.
Hi: I also, when I was diagnosed, went into the 'O' My God' mode and frantically began searching the web for anything other than conventional tx. Lloyd Wright's website popped up as did other alternative treatments. I did communicate with him via e-mail and bought his books. Never at any point however did he "push" his protocol on me but patiently answered as many of my panicked questions and concerns as he was able. His answers and knowledge was consistent with other sources and I also found him to be compassionate and timely in his responses and as I've mentioned he never once pushed his products. He was upfront with the cost ($700 - $1,000.00/ MONTH) - total insanity - but desperate times call for desperate measures and it's perfectly understandable to search for products that won't make you ill or have devastating side-effects. There are currently some herbs in clinical trials for reducing liver inflammation, one of which is SST (Sho - Saik - To ) sp? and I know that Milk Thistle has been used and studied. I think one has to keep an open mind where herbs and supplements are concerned as the Chinese and other Eastern cultures have used them for thousands of years to treat a myriad of diseases. The thing to watch out for however, as others on this forum have mentioned is the word - "CURE". Even the reputable herbalists will tell you that there is no herbal "cure" for Hep C and other conditions but some herbs have certain properties which may be able to help with liver function and inflammation. However to put down these remedies ( not cures) I think is extremely arrogant of our western culture. So Pitter, it seems that certain responses to your very sincere and valid questions have been explained but I can see how you could construe some of the comments to be insensitive, callous and rude. I think we all need to be a little more discriminating with the off the cuff remarks and jokes. Humor is fine in it's place. Best of luck to Pitter in your journey!
if considering some drug tials visit clinicaltrials.gov It has a search facility to find stuff in your vicinity
thanks goofy..i'll inquire about that..
I'm sorry you've had trouble with meds. We're you on interferon and ribavirin? This is generally a great group of folks. People will clown around, but it's almost always good naturedly, and questions will still get answered as part of that. I can't remember a ligitimate question that went straight to the peanut gallery without getting a well intentioned answer.
As for alternatives to the IFN/BIBA I think you'll find that there are three possible categories of therapy:
- Use supplements such as Milk Thistle and quite a few others in combo to minimize the damage being inflicted by the virus, and possibly lower the viral load
- Use partial doses of interferon to hold the virus in check as a maintenance therapy
- Consider trying to get on a trial for the new protease inhibitor or polymerase (sp?) classes of drugs. These will probably include interferon and possibly ribavirin.
Good luck!
As for alternatives to the IFN/BIBA I think you'll find that there are three possible categories of therapy:
- Use supplements such as Milk Thistle and quite a few others in combo to minimize the damage being inflicted by the virus, and possibly lower the viral load
- Use partial doses of interferon to hold the virus in check as a maintenance therapy
- Consider trying to get on a trial for the new protease inhibitor or polymerase (sp?) classes of drugs. These will probably include interferon and possibly ribavirin.
Good luck!
hi missy..no i have not started treatment ..and i am not even grumpy...and i beleive in humor , i love to laugh...i don't know what i am going to do yet bcz i have gotten really really sick from meds i have taken b4..and i am trying to get all the info i can - so that no one can talk me into doing something that i am not well informed of...that is why i asked about lloyd wright...it just felt like
MY question turned into some peoples joke , and i didn't like that...that's all..
i guess now i do understand everyones jist...but i was asking a serious question...and i did get SOME good answeres...so that's all on that...i am not going to argue with anyone here about it
thanks
MY question turned into some peoples joke , and i didn't like that...that's all..
i guess now i do understand everyones jist...but i was asking a serious question...and i did get SOME good answeres...so that's all on that...i am not going to argue with anyone here about it
thanks
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