Aa
To Canadian and Former Canadian members
I don’t want this to turn into a political debate. HCV Is a Health Issue that goes hand in hand with Health Care. There would be no logical reason for this thread to be deleted unless it is abused.
I would just like to hear from our Canadian members a truthful opinion about their Health Care System. Please include both Pros and Cons. I would also like to know the truth about how long it takes to see a Dr., get test/results, approval for treatment, time waiting in the lobby for emergency room visits, etc.
I don’t care to hear any conspiracy theories, only reality.
Since I keep hearing about a Health Care System compared to Canada’s, I would love to hear “from the Horses Mouth” about what we may be getting into.
So far we hear about how Great it is going to be from the one’s that are pushing for Reform and Horror Stories from the one’s against it. I would appreciate if only Canadian or former Canadian members respond. If other members use this thread for an opportunity to vent, the chances are, it will be deleted. Thank you for you honesty in advance.
Trish, Good Luck. If you can find a legitimate copy of “The Plan” please let me know. As I see it, there is no “Plan” and they just want us to trust them.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5306796_copy-health-care-reform-bill.html
“A Senate version of the bill was passed out of the Health, Education, Labor, & Pension Committee in July, but as of mid-August, the bill has not been assigned a number or its text published. The Senate website's active legislation list currently links those searching for the health care reform bill to the House of Representatives ' HR 3200. This will be updated when the Senate information is available.”
“(And I'm not being facetious. :)”
I know you rejoice in the fact you are a better speller than me. Admit it.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5306796_copy-health-care-reform-bill.html
“A Senate version of the bill was passed out of the Health, Education, Labor, & Pension Committee in July, but as of mid-August, the bill has not been assigned a number or its text published. The Senate website's active legislation list currently links those searching for the health care reform bill to the House of Representatives ' HR 3200. This will be updated when the Senate information is available.”
“(And I'm not being facetious. :)”
I know you rejoice in the fact you are a better speller than me. Admit it.
Do i see that 4 letter word again..govt?...dont you all see its again about greed and money,there is enff cash to help every person on the blue chunk of rock floating in space,but its just a few hoarding all the mulla....greed is evils brother
Why wouldn't health care simply continue to be available to legal Americans only? I don't see an issue with that. Is something other than that on the table? If you carded legal citizens for healthcare the way we do here, wouldn't that take care of it for the MOST part?
Do you have a link to what's being proposed for your system? I'd be intrigued to read it.
(And I'm not being facetious. :)
I'd like to see you go slow too and be careful. I can't for the life of me imagine rushing into something that's going to be as difficult to administer and as costly to support as a national healthcare plan with the size of your population, the number of States you have and the current state of your economy. This is far too important to be a political feather in someone's cap. Would be nice if partisan politics could be set aside and people work together on this but that would be WAY too optimistic, I suppose, eh?
Do you have a link to what's being proposed for your system? I'd be intrigued to read it.
(And I'm not being facetious. :)
I'd like to see you go slow too and be careful. I can't for the life of me imagine rushing into something that's going to be as difficult to administer and as costly to support as a national healthcare plan with the size of your population, the number of States you have and the current state of your economy. This is far too important to be a political feather in someone's cap. Would be nice if partisan politics could be set aside and people work together on this but that would be WAY too optimistic, I suppose, eh?
“If you think we're that idiotic, give it a shot and see how far you get. We've decided, overall, that to be entitled to ANYTHING in Canada, you need to be here legally.”
I was being fecisous (I still can’t spell that damned word). The Illegal Immigrant situation is one of our main concerns when it comes to Health Care Reform. We basically have no borders and our government puts forth little to no effort to do anything about it. They put no money into our system but our government seems more than happy to look the other way as they drain it. People are getting fed up with it. Until it is made clear, Free Health Care is for Legal Americans only; I don’t think it is going to pass. There are several other issues with “the plan” that should get worked out before it is voted on but this is one of the big one’s. My take is, patch them up enough to them back across the border. Wife and kids here, no problem, pack them up to. Our country is broke and we can no longer afford to try to take care of everybody else.
I see a lot of Pros & Cons with Canada’s system. I don’t understand why we have to jump into this so quickly. Many others and I would like a complete plan. We have a very corrupt and sometimes incompetent government. I don’t think we are asking for much. Slow down, put together a plan that the Pros and Cons have been worked through, and we will probably go for it. With the past history, only a fool would just trust them.
I was being fecisous (I still can’t spell that damned word). The Illegal Immigrant situation is one of our main concerns when it comes to Health Care Reform. We basically have no borders and our government puts forth little to no effort to do anything about it. They put no money into our system but our government seems more than happy to look the other way as they drain it. People are getting fed up with it. Until it is made clear, Free Health Care is for Legal Americans only; I don’t think it is going to pass. There are several other issues with “the plan” that should get worked out before it is voted on but this is one of the big one’s. My take is, patch them up enough to them back across the border. Wife and kids here, no problem, pack them up to. Our country is broke and we can no longer afford to try to take care of everybody else.
I see a lot of Pros & Cons with Canada’s system. I don’t understand why we have to jump into this so quickly. Many others and I would like a complete plan. We have a very corrupt and sometimes incompetent government. I don’t think we are asking for much. Slow down, put together a plan that the Pros and Cons have been worked through, and we will probably go for it. With the past history, only a fool would just trust them.
"But how does Canada's system handle people from other countries while they are in Canada? The treatment of illegal residents in the U.S. seems to be a relevant and controversial issue."
Well, you're mentioning two things in one sentence here. People visiting from other countries? I don't know. I've had no exposure to that. I can imagine there must be some sort of provision for that but I can imagine it has to be restricted or we'd be flooded with people visiting relatives and then going for healthcare services. We're a humane country but we're not stupid. So I don't know where that sits, Brent. Because we're humane doesn't mean we don't approach this practically as well.
As for illegal immigrants, if it's known they're illegal they get shipped out. If we don't know and we think they're citizens or legally here, they get the same care as anyone else who's legally here so I don't understand your question. The controversial issue with regards to illegal immigrants in this country is that our controls are not strict enough to prevent illegal immigrants from getting in. It has nothing to do with healthcare. As I said, there's that whole carding system. If you are an illegal immigrant and you have a healthcare card, you've gotten it through illegal means and you'll end up getting free healthcare until you get caught, not because our healthcare system allows it.
"I don't know if we should be idealistic about providing health care as a human right or if we need to be more practical. If we take the practical route, should we ration care, and if so based on what criteria?"
Care is rationed here so it seems we're taking some sort of practical approach to providing healthcare even though we've decided that it's something that should be extended to everyone who is in this country legally. Just because we have decided that healthcare is to be extended to everyone legally here doesn't mean we're being idiots about it. As I said to you, everyone has to have a healthcard, there are specific things that are covered and beyond that, if it's not considered a necessity, it's not covered. So it's like the government is the one insurance company in this country. There isn't anything about it that indicates that we just blindly hand out healthcare like candy.
We've decided, in this country, what basic entitlements everyone should have. For some people, that's precious little. If you're not working, you're entitled to welfare if you have no other means of income and yet, you can be denied welfare if you abuse the system. Then the social network kicks in - the homeless shelters, the food distribution groups, etc. We have homeless people like everyone else. But healthcare - well, if you're legally here and you're homeless and you have your health card, you can be treated by a doctor here. If some idiot like the guy I used to work with decides that kicking a homeless guy around and throwing pennies at him qualifies as entertainment, that homeless fellow is still entitled to see a doctor for his injuries and the same doctor as the rich guy's son who kicked him around. I'm really not sure how they'd work that out at the hospital if some homeless guy arrived there with no ID and injured. I'm sure we have some kind of provision for that rather than simply allowing someone to die. I just don't know what it is. I don't have all the answers to that. I think the police here make some effort to get to know the regulars and get some sense of who they are. But I really don't know how that works. Now I'll have to find a nurse or something and figure that out or ask the next time I end up in emerg or at my family doctor's office.
The current big debate here and among the medical community as well is whether we allow private care into the system and in what ways. The healthcare system has gone on the principle of equal access to all legal citizens and the question will be how to introduce private care and maintain that equal access. There are those who think that's not possible, that it will immediately create a two-tiered system where those who can afford it will get better care. Well, we already have that system as those who can afford it go outside the country and pay for it and maintaining the system as it is means to continue with the inefficiencies in the system that bring with it the long waiting times, etc. If it can be demonstrated that private care can be introduced in such a way as to maintain the foundational philosophy of equal access to all, but it hasn't been done yet. Under current debate though for sure.
"He does bring up a good point. If Health Care is a Human Right and Illegal Immigrants are human, the answer to our health care problem could be to flood Canada’s border."
If you think we're that idiotic, give it a shot and see how far you get. We've decided, overall, that to be entitled to ANYTHING in Canada, you need to be here legally.
If you think some people are not entitled to health care, you have a right to that opinion. In my country, we've decided that everyone who is here legally has the right to equal access to healthcare. If you want something different for your country, then you have the right to that opinion. I have the right to mine.
Good luck to your country with sorting this all out.
Well, you're mentioning two things in one sentence here. People visiting from other countries? I don't know. I've had no exposure to that. I can imagine there must be some sort of provision for that but I can imagine it has to be restricted or we'd be flooded with people visiting relatives and then going for healthcare services. We're a humane country but we're not stupid. So I don't know where that sits, Brent. Because we're humane doesn't mean we don't approach this practically as well.
As for illegal immigrants, if it's known they're illegal they get shipped out. If we don't know and we think they're citizens or legally here, they get the same care as anyone else who's legally here so I don't understand your question. The controversial issue with regards to illegal immigrants in this country is that our controls are not strict enough to prevent illegal immigrants from getting in. It has nothing to do with healthcare. As I said, there's that whole carding system. If you are an illegal immigrant and you have a healthcare card, you've gotten it through illegal means and you'll end up getting free healthcare until you get caught, not because our healthcare system allows it.
"I don't know if we should be idealistic about providing health care as a human right or if we need to be more practical. If we take the practical route, should we ration care, and if so based on what criteria?"
Care is rationed here so it seems we're taking some sort of practical approach to providing healthcare even though we've decided that it's something that should be extended to everyone who is in this country legally. Just because we have decided that healthcare is to be extended to everyone legally here doesn't mean we're being idiots about it. As I said to you, everyone has to have a healthcard, there are specific things that are covered and beyond that, if it's not considered a necessity, it's not covered. So it's like the government is the one insurance company in this country. There isn't anything about it that indicates that we just blindly hand out healthcare like candy.
We've decided, in this country, what basic entitlements everyone should have. For some people, that's precious little. If you're not working, you're entitled to welfare if you have no other means of income and yet, you can be denied welfare if you abuse the system. Then the social network kicks in - the homeless shelters, the food distribution groups, etc. We have homeless people like everyone else. But healthcare - well, if you're legally here and you're homeless and you have your health card, you can be treated by a doctor here. If some idiot like the guy I used to work with decides that kicking a homeless guy around and throwing pennies at him qualifies as entertainment, that homeless fellow is still entitled to see a doctor for his injuries and the same doctor as the rich guy's son who kicked him around. I'm really not sure how they'd work that out at the hospital if some homeless guy arrived there with no ID and injured. I'm sure we have some kind of provision for that rather than simply allowing someone to die. I just don't know what it is. I don't have all the answers to that. I think the police here make some effort to get to know the regulars and get some sense of who they are. But I really don't know how that works. Now I'll have to find a nurse or something and figure that out or ask the next time I end up in emerg or at my family doctor's office.
The current big debate here and among the medical community as well is whether we allow private care into the system and in what ways. The healthcare system has gone on the principle of equal access to all legal citizens and the question will be how to introduce private care and maintain that equal access. There are those who think that's not possible, that it will immediately create a two-tiered system where those who can afford it will get better care. Well, we already have that system as those who can afford it go outside the country and pay for it and maintaining the system as it is means to continue with the inefficiencies in the system that bring with it the long waiting times, etc. If it can be demonstrated that private care can be introduced in such a way as to maintain the foundational philosophy of equal access to all, but it hasn't been done yet. Under current debate though for sure.
"He does bring up a good point. If Health Care is a Human Right and Illegal Immigrants are human, the answer to our health care problem could be to flood Canada’s border."
If you think we're that idiotic, give it a shot and see how far you get. We've decided, overall, that to be entitled to ANYTHING in Canada, you need to be here legally.
If you think some people are not entitled to health care, you have a right to that opinion. In my country, we've decided that everyone who is here legally has the right to equal access to healthcare. If you want something different for your country, then you have the right to that opinion. I have the right to mine.
Good luck to your country with sorting this all out.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Hepatitis Social Community
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
