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question about skin-to-skin contact
I recently met a woman I like a lot who has HSV-2. She told me that she has been infected for about 10 years and takes Valtrex daily now. However, she says she never has symptoms she can positively identify as herpes, so she doesn't know when she is having an outbreak. I have been tested before and am negative for both HSV 1 and 2. I have been reading up on HSV-2 and know about transmission rates if antivirals and condoms are used, etc., as well as the low risk of transmission during oral sex, hand play, etc. But I haven't been able to find a good answer to this basic question: what is the risk of transmission if we are simply fooling around naked, engaging in oral sex, etc., but are not having intercourse?. In other words, is skin-to-skin contact if we are both naked enough to put me at risk, especially given that she says she never has lesions or sores that she can "see" so she doesn't know when she is highly contagious? I also know that you can shed the virus without symptoms, but that this happens less frequently. Is there a certain amount of friction that must occur to transmit the virus or is just being naked and fooling around with someone who has HSV-2 enough to transmit the virus? Thank you in advance.
thank you, I see it now - it's sort of hidden between the earlier replies.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
That rates that you are reading about are for intercourse. I posted a post to you but don't see it - did you read it?
Terri
Terri
Thank you for your reply...I figured the risk was low if using suppression/condom for sex reduces transmission to a low percentage..But given that she says she never has visible symptoms that she can detect, I wasn't sure if genital-to-genital contact alone was enough for transmission (without intercourse) when you don't know where the virus originated or when she's contagious...I take it then in terms of transmission, the averages I've read on the web are based on penetration and/or friction vs. just skin-to-skin contact?
I've had the virus for about 18 years, I had a child since then vaginally with no problems for the child. I recently got married and my husband is aware of my situation. My husband still wants to have unprotected sex. I've had unprotected sex with him for almost 3 years. He still does not show any signs of having the virus, which I'm very happy about. I usually can tell when an outbreak is about to occur although I've heard that you could spread the virus without any symptoms. If I take my meds daily would that help prevent spreading the virus to my husband? How long does it normally take the male to show symptoms? I have also felt a cyst like bump on the left side of my vagina that was not sore. What could that possibly be? Thanks in advance for your help.
I've had the virus for about 18 years, I had a child since then vaginally with no problems for the child. I recently got married and my husband is aware of my situation. My husband still wants to have unprotected sex. I've had unprotected sex with him for almost 3 years. He still does not show any signs of having the virus, which I'm very happy about. I usually can tell when an outbreak is about to occur although I've heard that you could spread the virus without any symptoms. If I take my meds daily would that help prevent spreading the virus to my husband? How long does it normally take the male to show symptoms? I have also felt a cyst like bump on the left side of my vagina that was not sore. What could that possibly be? Thanks in advance for your help.
Hi again. OK so I guess she does have it. She can get her HSV-2 positive result confirmed with a Western Blot, since the IgG test did not have an index value (the level you are talking about) and has never had any symptoms. There is a possibility that the test can give a false positive if the index value is below 3.5, but since she does not know her index value, she does not know. However, if she was having a lot of unprotected sex with a man with herpes then it seems like it would be accurate... I think she is being honest with you too based on the description.
I would suggest that she wear non-skimpy underwear or shorts so that you don't risk transmission that way. It's really unlikely that you would get it from just cuddling. I mean she is only infected in the place she has the virus. Holding hands is skin to skin contact but does not risk you for herpes. The condom would also help since the part of your penis that is covered would not touch her skin. I'd say that if you both wear underwear and don't touch each others genitals then all other contact would be fine. OK but if you do decide to engage in this sort of contact with her, don't act like you are having sex within biohazard suits or that are you are afraid to touch her. It's not fair to her and the stigma is already bad enough.
I would suggest that she wear non-skimpy underwear or shorts so that you don't risk transmission that way. It's really unlikely that you would get it from just cuddling. I mean she is only infected in the place she has the virus. Holding hands is skin to skin contact but does not risk you for herpes. The condom would also help since the part of your penis that is covered would not touch her skin. I'd say that if you both wear underwear and don't touch each others genitals then all other contact would be fine. OK but if you do decide to engage in this sort of contact with her, don't act like you are having sex within biohazard suits or that are you are afraid to touch her. It's not fair to her and the stigma is already bad enough.
Thanks for your comment. She told me she contracted HSV-2 during her marriage, which ended about a year ago. She figures it was early in the marriage, but that neither she nor her ex-husband were aware of the problem until he showed symptoms years later...I believe both of them were tested in the past few years. I asked her about IgG levels after reading about this on the web, and she told me she had a test called Immunoblot(??) and that it can distinguish between Type 1 and 2, but that it didn't provide the IgG levels like I have been reading about...she said it was just positive for both HSV 1 and 2, almost like a pregnancy test. I don't know if this is correct, but she seems forthcoming so I have no reason to doubt what she is saying. Also, if we are playing around naked, with lots of skin to skin contact, and I am wearing a condom, wouldn't this provide some protection? What if one of us leaves on underwear? I believe I read the virus cannot travel through clothes, but what about skimpy underwear?
Hi Twocool. First off congratulations on being a caring person and not judging this woman because of her HSV-2. Also good job on being tested, and you are definitely very lucky to have escaped both types of herpes.
Terri will answer your question, but I think that if you are only cuddling and kissing naked the risk is really low. If you start rubbing your genitals against her's, then that's all you need to contract herpes from her. If you perform oral sex on her, then you could get HSV-2 orally, but the risk is low because only 3% of HSV-2 is oral (it "prefers" to infect the genital area). If she was to perform oral sex on you, the risk would be even lower (she could have HSV-2 orally, since she is asymptomatic she does not technically know where she has it). Hand jobs don't have a risk of herpes unless I guess you touched her genitals and then touched yourself. It's all based on the concept of skin to skin contact which you already understand. Just remember that you are a guy. Will you be able to control yourself if you get into bed with her and are fooling around completely naked?
Since you do like this woman a lot, I would wait until you can truly say that you love her and you are either married/engaged or in a very serious relationship before you have sex. Just remember, herpes (unlike love) is forever, and she was honest about her condition with you so if you contract it, you are the one who took that risk. She might not have horrible outbreaks, but some people do, that could be you if you contract it. Also it only takes one time. Don't assume that you will not catch it from her! Also don't assume that you would be safer with another woman who does not think she has HSV. Unless they have had the antibody test, a lot of women are asymptomatic and don't know they have herpes. 1 in 4 women have it, and 80% don't know.
Finally, I don't think the accurate antibody tests (that can differentiate b/w herpes 1 and 2) existed 10 years ago, when she was diagnosed! If she is asymptomatic, it might not be possible for her to have been diagnosed like she says. Has she been recently tested with an IgG blood test or Western blot?
Good luck and take care. Don't act on my answers OK Terri is the professional here!
Terri will answer your question, but I think that if you are only cuddling and kissing naked the risk is really low. If you start rubbing your genitals against her's, then that's all you need to contract herpes from her. If you perform oral sex on her, then you could get HSV-2 orally, but the risk is low because only 3% of HSV-2 is oral (it "prefers" to infect the genital area). If she was to perform oral sex on you, the risk would be even lower (she could have HSV-2 orally, since she is asymptomatic she does not technically know where she has it). Hand jobs don't have a risk of herpes unless I guess you touched her genitals and then touched yourself. It's all based on the concept of skin to skin contact which you already understand. Just remember that you are a guy. Will you be able to control yourself if you get into bed with her and are fooling around completely naked?
Since you do like this woman a lot, I would wait until you can truly say that you love her and you are either married/engaged or in a very serious relationship before you have sex. Just remember, herpes (unlike love) is forever, and she was honest about her condition with you so if you contract it, you are the one who took that risk. She might not have horrible outbreaks, but some people do, that could be you if you contract it. Also it only takes one time. Don't assume that you will not catch it from her! Also don't assume that you would be safer with another woman who does not think she has HSV. Unless they have had the antibody test, a lot of women are asymptomatic and don't know they have herpes. 1 in 4 women have it, and 80% don't know.
Finally, I don't think the accurate antibody tests (that can differentiate b/w herpes 1 and 2) existed 10 years ago, when she was diagnosed! If she is asymptomatic, it might not be possible for her to have been diagnosed like she says. Has she been recently tested with an IgG blood test or Western blot?
Good luck and take care. Don't act on my answers OK Terri is the professional here!
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Wow, I totally missed this post with all the good response that have been posted. I think your risk with genital to genital rubbing and other kinds of contact is low, especially since she is on suppression. Holding off on intercourse until you are clearer about the nature of the relationship is fine. I'm glad you are being thoughtful about your decisions and exploring your actual risk, but we have no specific numbers about the risk for the kinds of contacts you describe. Intuitively, I think it is very low.
Terri
Terri
You are reading content posted in the Herpes Forum
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
