Aa
Frustrating LP, Spinal Headache; would scream but it would hurt too much!
I feel like I've been banging my head against a brick wall. Literally. My head hurts so bad, especially when I first rise from lying down. I had my LP Friday morning, and the headache started about 24 hours later. I had to wait the weekend, lying flat, drinking lots of liquids and caffeine, eating food with high water content (watermelon, apples, etc.)
Let me back up and share my LP experience. I checked in at 8 am, and explained my bladder issues and that if I needed to be flat for a couple of hours, a catheter might be a good idea. The nurse (?) refused, saying it would just irritate my bladder more. Then she refused to have my blood drawn, because she didn't understand the orders; which were for the CSF and which were for the blood. She refused to let me take my pain medication (I had forgotten earlier), and refused to let me take my diazepam to help me relax (which may even have helped my bladder). I had two people draw blood from me.
When I gotten taken into the room for my procedure, the radiologist decided to do another patient first, so I kept having to climb off the gurney and use the restroom. I took my lumbar MRIs since I have some disc protrusions and facet arthropathy and a general mess. The radiologist didn't look at them, saying he was more interested in the bony structure. Oh, and he kept coughing.
He made three punctures, the first one hitting the nerve root on the left side of L4-5 (shooting electric pain down left leg. He pushed and pushed, and couldn't get to CSF. 2nd try; hit nerve on right side, pain down right leg, push, push, moved it a little, hit a bone, decided to try again. Oh, yeah, and he kept moving the table. I was laying face down with a small pillow under my lower tummy. He tried having me lift one hip, moved the table, push push, moved table, my hip, table, said there must be some scar tissue. Shot more Lidocaine, tried the L3-4 level. By then the table was almost straight up and down and I was standing on one leg like a stork. He finally got the tap, but not much flow, then it finally flowed more, so he filled 4 or 5 big tubes.
Back in recovery; nurses were apparently in short supply, and the woman in the next bed had apparently worked for the hospital system as nurse for many years, and got constant care. It took me a long time to get a passing phlebotomist to listen to the fact that I had to urinate; she brought a pad and a bedpan, explaining how important it was for me to lie flat until my ride came, and was very nice when I totally filled the pan and overflowed on the pad she put down first. She also noticed that I hadn't eaten the food they had brought. I'm allergic to eggs and don't eat mayo, so she brought me a plain turkey sandwich on whole wheat and put a packet of mustard on it for me.That was the last care I got.
I only had one small cup of water; they also brought a little cup of "juice" which contained mostly high fructose corn syrup. I still had to urinate, and spent quite some time trying to get help. I had nurses working on each side of me, but they both ignored me. I finally caught the one that gave me a hard time about bloodwork and meds, and she stared at me and told me to get up and use the bathroom. I told her that I was told to stay flat until my ride arrived, and she said that was only 40 minutes away, and walked off. The other nurse came and explained that the staying flat was really only necessary for the first hour, and that I would be fine.
My only discharge instructions (by nurse ratchet) was "rest at home today and then increase your activity as tolerated. Standard discharge for non-surgical procedure; call doctor if any of a list of things happen, including getting a spinal headache, but there was no doctor's name or number listed.
I called my neurologist's office that afternoon, as my lower right quadrant was glowing from nerve pain where the radiologist "pinched" my nerve root. I was told to talk to him, and when he called, he said that what he had done was a simple procedure, the pain would subside, and that I could get up and do light household stuff, with no heavy lifting and being careful on stairs.
I stayed flat and drank lots of water, then checked my e-mail when no headache developed. Slept well after extra 50 mg. Lyrica (calmed the nerve pain right down), then the headache found me Saturday morning.
I called my neurologist's today, and was told I needed to talk to the radiologist, but they couldn't get a hold of him. I called a friend with insider info, got his direct number, and called him. He wanted to know how I got that number, and I just said I know someone that works in the hospital complex who gave it to me after no one else could get ahold of him. I explained my symptoms, the pain, dizziness, blurry vision, and lots of "floaters" in both eyes.
He said that a spinal headache usually didn't come on until 3 or 4 days after the LP, and the dizziness and blurred vision weren't after effects of an LP, so he would be leery of calling it a spinal headache. He put me on hold, then came back and told me that if it was a spinal headache, then I might need a blood patch and he didn't do that so I would need to talk to an anesthesiologist, and gave me a couple phone numbers. One was labor and delivery, and the other was a pager.
I called my neurologist's office again, and her assistant and I chuckled some (maybe there would be an anesthesiologist around labor and delivery), she made note of my symptoms, and shortly my neurologist called me back. She asked me why the radiologist had said what he had said, and I told her that my guess would be that he had no clear idea of the after effects of the procedure that he had performed on my. She seemed to agree. :o)
She told me to call her first thing tomorrow if the headache doesn't go away, and she'll get me a good anesthesiologist to do the blood patch, and a catheter if necessary.
I'm sorry this is so long, but I'm typing through pain and what feels like a million hours of it and frustration. I so needed to vent, and my cat doesn't listen very well, my best friend was at a convention, my next best friend recently lost her companion dog of 13 years and can only listen to so much of another's pain.
Thank you all for being here. I crawled out of bed a few times to check in, and I think y'all kept my head from exploding! Finding this site sure has been a blessing.
Hugs (gentle) to all!
Let me back up and share my LP experience. I checked in at 8 am, and explained my bladder issues and that if I needed to be flat for a couple of hours, a catheter might be a good idea. The nurse (?) refused, saying it would just irritate my bladder more. Then she refused to have my blood drawn, because she didn't understand the orders; which were for the CSF and which were for the blood. She refused to let me take my pain medication (I had forgotten earlier), and refused to let me take my diazepam to help me relax (which may even have helped my bladder). I had two people draw blood from me.
When I gotten taken into the room for my procedure, the radiologist decided to do another patient first, so I kept having to climb off the gurney and use the restroom. I took my lumbar MRIs since I have some disc protrusions and facet arthropathy and a general mess. The radiologist didn't look at them, saying he was more interested in the bony structure. Oh, and he kept coughing.
He made three punctures, the first one hitting the nerve root on the left side of L4-5 (shooting electric pain down left leg. He pushed and pushed, and couldn't get to CSF. 2nd try; hit nerve on right side, pain down right leg, push, push, moved it a little, hit a bone, decided to try again. Oh, yeah, and he kept moving the table. I was laying face down with a small pillow under my lower tummy. He tried having me lift one hip, moved the table, push push, moved table, my hip, table, said there must be some scar tissue. Shot more Lidocaine, tried the L3-4 level. By then the table was almost straight up and down and I was standing on one leg like a stork. He finally got the tap, but not much flow, then it finally flowed more, so he filled 4 or 5 big tubes.
Back in recovery; nurses were apparently in short supply, and the woman in the next bed had apparently worked for the hospital system as nurse for many years, and got constant care. It took me a long time to get a passing phlebotomist to listen to the fact that I had to urinate; she brought a pad and a bedpan, explaining how important it was for me to lie flat until my ride came, and was very nice when I totally filled the pan and overflowed on the pad she put down first. She also noticed that I hadn't eaten the food they had brought. I'm allergic to eggs and don't eat mayo, so she brought me a plain turkey sandwich on whole wheat and put a packet of mustard on it for me.That was the last care I got.
I only had one small cup of water; they also brought a little cup of "juice" which contained mostly high fructose corn syrup. I still had to urinate, and spent quite some time trying to get help. I had nurses working on each side of me, but they both ignored me. I finally caught the one that gave me a hard time about bloodwork and meds, and she stared at me and told me to get up and use the bathroom. I told her that I was told to stay flat until my ride arrived, and she said that was only 40 minutes away, and walked off. The other nurse came and explained that the staying flat was really only necessary for the first hour, and that I would be fine.
My only discharge instructions (by nurse ratchet) was "rest at home today and then increase your activity as tolerated. Standard discharge for non-surgical procedure; call doctor if any of a list of things happen, including getting a spinal headache, but there was no doctor's name or number listed.
I called my neurologist's office that afternoon, as my lower right quadrant was glowing from nerve pain where the radiologist "pinched" my nerve root. I was told to talk to him, and when he called, he said that what he had done was a simple procedure, the pain would subside, and that I could get up and do light household stuff, with no heavy lifting and being careful on stairs.
I stayed flat and drank lots of water, then checked my e-mail when no headache developed. Slept well after extra 50 mg. Lyrica (calmed the nerve pain right down), then the headache found me Saturday morning.
I called my neurologist's today, and was told I needed to talk to the radiologist, but they couldn't get a hold of him. I called a friend with insider info, got his direct number, and called him. He wanted to know how I got that number, and I just said I know someone that works in the hospital complex who gave it to me after no one else could get ahold of him. I explained my symptoms, the pain, dizziness, blurry vision, and lots of "floaters" in both eyes.
He said that a spinal headache usually didn't come on until 3 or 4 days after the LP, and the dizziness and blurred vision weren't after effects of an LP, so he would be leery of calling it a spinal headache. He put me on hold, then came back and told me that if it was a spinal headache, then I might need a blood patch and he didn't do that so I would need to talk to an anesthesiologist, and gave me a couple phone numbers. One was labor and delivery, and the other was a pager.
I called my neurologist's office again, and her assistant and I chuckled some (maybe there would be an anesthesiologist around labor and delivery), she made note of my symptoms, and shortly my neurologist called me back. She asked me why the radiologist had said what he had said, and I told her that my guess would be that he had no clear idea of the after effects of the procedure that he had performed on my. She seemed to agree. :o)
She told me to call her first thing tomorrow if the headache doesn't go away, and she'll get me a good anesthesiologist to do the blood patch, and a catheter if necessary.
I'm sorry this is so long, but I'm typing through pain and what feels like a million hours of it and frustration. I so needed to vent, and my cat doesn't listen very well, my best friend was at a convention, my next best friend recently lost her companion dog of 13 years and can only listen to so much of another's pain.
Thank you all for being here. I crawled out of bed a few times to check in, and I think y'all kept my head from exploding! Finding this site sure has been a blessing.
Hugs (gentle) to all!
Thank you for your prayers and advice. Your'e right to suggest Mandi say know to having a student. I wish I would have spoken up when this guy that worked on my came in coughing and didn't want to look at my lumbar MRI.
We have to speak up and look out for ourselves. I think "My God, this guy was doing his on-the-job training on my spinal cord!"
I will go recline with my bottle of water, and talk with you all later.
Kathy
We have to speak up and look out for ourselves. I think "My God, this guy was doing his on-the-job training on my spinal cord!"
I will go recline with my bottle of water, and talk with you all later.
Kathy
Good morning, kind of. I got up thinking the headache was better, but once I got moving around, iiiiiiittttt'ssss baaaaaack! I'm waiting for my neurologist's office to open so I can call and arrange to meet with the anesthesiologist about the blood patch, and most likely get it done this morning. I read it helps right away.
I think at a teaching hospital they have a supervisor observe, even if a student is doing the procedure, right? So you have a better chance of a quality LP. I heard this guy is a good radiologist and decided to become an Interventional Radiologist and is kind of learning on the job (lucky me), with only a tech with him.
I actually had a spinal tap once before, to block sensation to the lower half of my body when I had my first knee reconstruction, and it was simple and easy. Well, I did have morphine afterwards; not for long, though, I hate that stuff; it makes time draggggggggg. But I didn't get any headaches back then, and an anesthesiologist had done that one. I have good hopes for today.
Things are getting better because I know I'm going to get something done and stop laying on the bed with a cooler of water and stuff. I did finish one book and start another. I brought my Game Boy with me today; thinking of playing Scrabble or the Sims.
Thanks for checking in with me,
Kathy
I think at a teaching hospital they have a supervisor observe, even if a student is doing the procedure, right? So you have a better chance of a quality LP. I heard this guy is a good radiologist and decided to become an Interventional Radiologist and is kind of learning on the job (lucky me), with only a tech with him.
I actually had a spinal tap once before, to block sensation to the lower half of my body when I had my first knee reconstruction, and it was simple and easy. Well, I did have morphine afterwards; not for long, though, I hate that stuff; it makes time draggggggggg. But I didn't get any headaches back then, and an anesthesiologist had done that one. I have good hopes for today.
Things are getting better because I know I'm going to get something done and stop laying on the bed with a cooler of water and stuff. I did finish one book and start another. I brought my Game Boy with me today; thinking of playing Scrabble or the Sims.
Thanks for checking in with me,
Kathy
Hi Kathy, I too hope you are better today. I had the headache also, and went through a blood patch to try to heal it. It was awful, the headache drove me to Vicodin which I hate. Stay flat, stay flat, stay flat, and I mean for a week. When you go to the bathroom, walk like Groucho, bent at the waist. Your puncture needs time to heal and the fluid needs time to rebalance. I'm praying for you my friend.
Mandi, If it were me I would graciously say NO to a student. Tell them it is not personal, but you prefer not to have a student do this procedure. No need for excuses or guilt; it's your spine we are talking about here not a hangnail. And don't feel guilty. I'm sure they hear it alot. God bless you, Amy
Mandi, If it were me I would graciously say NO to a student. Tell them it is not personal, but you prefer not to have a student do this procedure. No need for excuses or guilt; it's your spine we are talking about here not a hangnail. And don't feel guilty. I'm sure they hear it alot. God bless you, Amy
I am so sorry about your experience, I am having an LP in a few weeks and can't say I'm not dreading it. The hospital where I go is a teaching hospital and one thing I am worrying about is if they ask me if I would let a student do it. I understand they have to learn but I have memories of agreeing to a student doing my cervical smear......
Anyway Kathy I hope things are ok now.
Anyway Kathy I hope things are ok now.
How are you feeling this morning?
I hope you can find the energy to file those complaints. Think of the next poor unsuspecting person caught in that disaster area!
ess
I hope you can find the energy to file those complaints. Think of the next poor unsuspecting person caught in that disaster area!
ess
Having my head ache from laughing is OK! Yes, it actually was a real medical facility! Thank you all; I feel so vindicated in my disgust and disbelief at this sureal experience.
It was supposedly done under fluoroscopy; the machine was there, but you're all right, it doesn't sound like he used it; or really knew how to. I found out this afternoon that he is new in the radiology group; perhaps he padded his resume. Not OHSU. I've had good luck with this hospital for years, pretty much.
I've been consuming some caffeine, and it does help, though it shakes up my tremors, which is what started me down this whole path to the brain MRI with all the lesions and etc. I'd rather shake than ache, though!
I had read both good and bad things about LPs, so I was prepared, but certainly not for all that. The "nurse" finally got the bloodwork orders right by contacting her charge nurse. Um, shouldn't she have started there, if she couldn't figure it out? I did take my own meds with me, but she wouldn't let me get them out and take them. I insisted, after the procedure, that I be allowed to take one of my pain pills. The nice phlebotomist helped me to get my belongings.
I'll think about filing a complaint when I have the energy for it. I've kept notes and will print out the post and add the names of the nurses and doctor. I need to choose my fights, but this one isn't just for me, I guess. I'm usually really good at advocating for myself; a lot of people aren't. I think I was stunned, or I would have spoken up more than I did.
Wish me well tomorrow!
Hugs all around,
Kathy
It was supposedly done under fluoroscopy; the machine was there, but you're all right, it doesn't sound like he used it; or really knew how to. I found out this afternoon that he is new in the radiology group; perhaps he padded his resume. Not OHSU. I've had good luck with this hospital for years, pretty much.
I've been consuming some caffeine, and it does help, though it shakes up my tremors, which is what started me down this whole path to the brain MRI with all the lesions and etc. I'd rather shake than ache, though!
I had read both good and bad things about LPs, so I was prepared, but certainly not for all that. The "nurse" finally got the bloodwork orders right by contacting her charge nurse. Um, shouldn't she have started there, if she couldn't figure it out? I did take my own meds with me, but she wouldn't let me get them out and take them. I insisted, after the procedure, that I be allowed to take one of my pain pills. The nice phlebotomist helped me to get my belongings.
I'll think about filing a complaint when I have the energy for it. I've kept notes and will print out the post and add the names of the nurses and doctor. I need to choose my fights, but this one isn't just for me, I guess. I'm usually really good at advocating for myself; a lot of people aren't. I think I was stunned, or I would have spoken up more than I did.
Wish me well tomorrow!
Hugs all around,
Kathy
How horrible! There is no way that standing on one leg like a stork could have been a fluoroscopy guided procedure! That's the most ridiculous thing I've every heard of!!!! I can certainly relate about the headache. I thought my head was going to explode for the next NINE DAYS following my LP! I kept thinking, "it'll get better tomorrow, i'll get better . . ." and that day never arrived. Do get that blood patch, like you've planned, but not from that idiot radiologist!!! Shees, I bet he couldn't drive his own car into his own garage, much less a needle into the correct space in your spine!!!!
That is the most shocking lack of care that I have heard yet and I think that once you are feeling better you should really put in a complaint against that one nurse at least! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised after the last time I was in ER and was seen for respiratory difficulties by and eye doctor right?!
Biowham is right about you not having any fluid left in your spine...no wonder you are having so much difficulty honey!
Have you tried increasing your intake of caffeine as well? Apparently this is supposed to help and if you are not wanting to be getting up to use the bathroom maybe a few cups of Joe would do you good...
I am so sorry that you had to go through this and I hope you are able to get some relief tomorrow...I think if I heard your story before I had to go for my 1st LP...I would be running in the opposite direction as fast as I could! That's why I hope you will report this to the appropriate people so that other's may be saved from enduring what you have!
Please work on getting yourself feeling better first though and we will be looking forward to hearing from you once you do get back to yourself!
Lots and Lots of Hugs,
Rena
Biowham is right about you not having any fluid left in your spine...no wonder you are having so much difficulty honey!
Have you tried increasing your intake of caffeine as well? Apparently this is supposed to help and if you are not wanting to be getting up to use the bathroom maybe a few cups of Joe would do you good...
I am so sorry that you had to go through this and I hope you are able to get some relief tomorrow...I think if I heard your story before I had to go for my 1st LP...I would be running in the opposite direction as fast as I could! That's why I hope you will report this to the appropriate people so that other's may be saved from enduring what you have!
Please work on getting yourself feeling better first though and we will be looking forward to hearing from you once you do get back to yourself!
Lots and Lots of Hugs,
Rena
Please call the patient relations dept first thing when your headache subsides. Tell them you want to file an official complaint about the nursing staff and the radiologist.
I would also call the dept of nursing and get the name of the nursing supervisor of the hospital.
the job of the patient relations dept is to handle complaints. The care (or lack of) that you received is horrible, substandard. and put you in danger. Next time you ever have a procedure done and you forget the valium and are denied it at the hospital, it would almost be better to go home and reschedule. If you tell the hospital staff you are rescheduling because you need to take a sedative or whatever, then the nurses will call the doctor and ask for it for you. They don't want to look bad and be accused of stopping a procedure because of their arrogance.
Please file the complaints. Was this done at OHSU??? I hope your headache goes away by morning.
Elaine
I would also call the dept of nursing and get the name of the nursing supervisor of the hospital.
the job of the patient relations dept is to handle complaints. The care (or lack of) that you received is horrible, substandard. and put you in danger. Next time you ever have a procedure done and you forget the valium and are denied it at the hospital, it would almost be better to go home and reschedule. If you tell the hospital staff you are rescheduling because you need to take a sedative or whatever, then the nurses will call the doctor and ask for it for you. They don't want to look bad and be accused of stopping a procedure because of their arrogance.
Please file the complaints. Was this done at OHSU??? I hope your headache goes away by morning.
Elaine
What a mess. First of all, he obviously was not doing a fluoroscopy-guided procedure, and that's key for an easy LP. Second, if he took that many large vials, the reason for your headache is pretty clear--you've got hardly any spinal fluid left! That's an exaggeration, but sounds like he took a LOT. The treatment you received from the nurses warrants a real complaint to the facility administration, and what you've written here is just fine. The discharge directions were completely nonstandard and the follow-up on your concerns was dismissive at best. Send your complaint by mail and email and fax to the appropriate people--administrators/director of nursing/etc. This needs to be known. And request an apology so that you know they received it and that they read it. This type of treatment of a patient is completely inappropriate. That may have been a paremedic rather than a nurse; it's hard to tell, although the places I've been require that they identify themselves as such.
Even his assertion that a spinal headache doesn't come on for three or four days is nonsense. Seriously, were you even at a real medical facility? You might remind them that there is generally competition for their services and that word does in fact get around about how specific facilities treat their clients.
I'm sorry you're having to go through this. It's infuriating to me when I hear about how people are treated in these dismissive ways by medical and healthcare professionals. The only way to make them stop is by reminding them firmly and with all means necessary that you are, in fact, a person who deserves excellent and respectful treatment at every turn.
Bio
Even his assertion that a spinal headache doesn't come on for three or four days is nonsense. Seriously, were you even at a real medical facility? You might remind them that there is generally competition for their services and that word does in fact get around about how specific facilities treat their clients.
I'm sorry you're having to go through this. It's infuriating to me when I hear about how people are treated in these dismissive ways by medical and healthcare professionals. The only way to make them stop is by reminding them firmly and with all means necessary that you are, in fact, a person who deserves excellent and respectful treatment at every turn.
Bio
Thank you. My neurologist said that it was a good thing that she hadn't done the LP in her office, since the radiologist had such a hard time, and I told her that I would have preferred that she had done it.
I'll be at the hospital tomorrow morning, barring an overnight cure of my symptoms. I think I'll have some questions for the staff and make sure that I'll get competent care. One of my friends has been in health care for some time, and if she can get time off work, she'll be there too. Sometimes an advocate (or witness) works wonders.
Thanks for helping soothe my ruffled feathers.
Kathy
I'll be at the hospital tomorrow morning, barring an overnight cure of my symptoms. I think I'll have some questions for the staff and make sure that I'll get competent care. One of my friends has been in health care for some time, and if she can get time off work, she'll be there too. Sometimes an advocate (or witness) works wonders.
Thanks for helping soothe my ruffled feathers.
Kathy
Dear heavens, this is one of the worst experiences I've ever heard about. I'm so sorry! What a bunch of jerks! I just don't understand how LPs can vary so much, as can all the hospital personnel. My own LP 2 years ago was as uneventful as it gets, and the people were wonderful.
I really hope you are much better tomorrow. If not, move heaven and earth to get a blood patch done by someone other than that butcher.
And please save your post. If I were you I'd mail it to everyone involved and his or her supervisor. That includes the chair of the hosptial board.
Feel better!
ess
I really hope you are much better tomorrow. If not, move heaven and earth to get a blood patch done by someone other than that butcher.
And please save your post. If I were you I'd mail it to everyone involved and his or her supervisor. That includes the chair of the hosptial board.
Feel better!
ess
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