Aa
Hyperesthesia
How many of you have something like this? In my right foot, the one we think might have RSD without the pain, I have exquisitely sensitive toes to minor trauma. What I mean is, if I bump the tips of my right toes - not even enough to call it stubbing them - the pain will drop me to my knees. It is just like I have hauled off and fractured them. I can't help but cry out and tears come to my eyes. The pain is searing, white-hot and seems to encompass my whole lower leg. The pain lasts maybe a minute or little more, then it disappears and it is as if nothing happened. I'm sure it looks to others like I am a total baby, but I swear the pain is momentarily unbearable.
Now if I rub or tap those toes at anytime, they either feel numbish or a little tender. But it does not elicit the pain reaction. I don't know if this is part of the RSD with shortened periods of pain or if it is part of the MS. Any one else with anything like this?
It seems a little different from straight hyperesthesia because it takes a certain level of stimulus to cause a hyper reaction. But, I have also noticed that small noxious stimuli on the sole of that foot is perceived as severe. A grain of sand in my sock feels like stepping on a pin that is piercing the skin. That is true for both feet, but far worse on the right. I must be soooo delicate - just like a lotus blossom.
Just askin'
Quix
Now if I rub or tap those toes at anytime, they either feel numbish or a little tender. But it does not elicit the pain reaction. I don't know if this is part of the RSD with shortened periods of pain or if it is part of the MS. Any one else with anything like this?
It seems a little different from straight hyperesthesia because it takes a certain level of stimulus to cause a hyper reaction. But, I have also noticed that small noxious stimuli on the sole of that foot is perceived as severe. A grain of sand in my sock feels like stepping on a pin that is piercing the skin. That is true for both feet, but far worse on the right. I must be soooo delicate - just like a lotus blossom.
Just askin'
Quix
Mary - I have considered the same thing when I read about the paradoxical "soothing" of major pressure versus the intolerable pain of light touch.
Some theories of autism invoke an absence of the gates/filters that allow us to be in a noisy, chaotic environment without going mad. I think your thoughts of what some people with autism go through might be quite comparable.
Thanks,
Quix
Some theories of autism invoke an absence of the gates/filters that allow us to be in a noisy, chaotic environment without going mad. I think your thoughts of what some people with autism go through might be quite comparable.
Thanks,
Quix
Quix mentioned..... "allodynia" where a definite or firm stimulus may not hurt, but a light one may be unbearable.
DV, you mentioned a squeeze could actually be soothing.
I'm not suggesting there is any connection but this sounds similar to what Dr. Temple Grandin describes in her (personal) experience with autism. I'm not autistic but I relate to a lot of what she describes in her writings.
I guess the thing is that the brain and nervous system are just so complicated and there is so much more unknown than known about it all.
When my mother had a brain hemorrhage I was fascinated to discover that she could count out loud, read numbers to me, and write numbers when they were spoken to her but had great difficulty transcribing from a printed source to another paper.
Since there isn't much of a market for scales with a memory, we had to get her a 'talking' scale so she could record her weight daily. She could write what the scale lady said her weight was but not what she saw displayed. Even after a remarkable recovery, she almost always identified both a 5 and a 6 as the number six.
I'm less fascinated with my own evolving difficulties. Still, I'd like to understand them. At least here on the forum I don't feel quite as oddball as I used to.
Mary
DV, you mentioned a squeeze could actually be soothing.
I'm not suggesting there is any connection but this sounds similar to what Dr. Temple Grandin describes in her (personal) experience with autism. I'm not autistic but I relate to a lot of what she describes in her writings.
I guess the thing is that the brain and nervous system are just so complicated and there is so much more unknown than known about it all.
When my mother had a brain hemorrhage I was fascinated to discover that she could count out loud, read numbers to me, and write numbers when they were spoken to her but had great difficulty transcribing from a printed source to another paper.
Since there isn't much of a market for scales with a memory, we had to get her a 'talking' scale so she could record her weight daily. She could write what the scale lady said her weight was but not what she saw displayed. Even after a remarkable recovery, she almost always identified both a 5 and a 6 as the number six.
I'm less fascinated with my own evolving difficulties. Still, I'd like to understand them. At least here on the forum I don't feel quite as oddball as I used to.
Mary
quix,
i was just trying to read a bit here and saw this post. i am a little intimidated to try to explain anything about rsd/crps to a physician, but i do have some personal experience in this area! lol
your reaction to stimulus with your rsd affected foot is very normal for the disease. quite often an rsd patient can touch their own limb but can not tolerate anyone else's slightest touch. i think this has to do with us knowing our own body and which areas are just too sensitive to touch and how to handle the affected area as far as the force of the touch and so on. i am one who can not tolerate touch at all. the comment about the bed sheets hurting is all too familiar to me. i had to teach my husband to be careful in pulling the sheets and blankets across me because the pain is excruciating. i also have a lot of problems with my clothing hurting as well. i am constantly pulling on my clothes to lift them off of my skin.
the pain you are experiencing with minor trauma is also classic of rsd. the most minor or "accidents' like bumping into a door frame, or accidently hitting a limb on something...a type of incident that someone with rsd would not even notice, can hurt severely for hours. i am not well versed in ms but i am thinking that it is correct that the ms somehow short circuits the nerves so you dont feel the rsd pain. that makes sense to me because of how rsd can short circuit nerves.
rsd can cause severe neuropathy, which i also have with mine. it is weird to say but my rsd affected areas are both numb and extremely painful at the same time. i can not feel my feet on the floor, but i have excruciating pain in both feet. i know that makes no sense as numbness generally translates into no feeling at all, but rsd gives you both numbness and severe pain.
oddly enough, when i started having new pain in my right foot, and i spoke to my doc about it, on examination, he found that i have a bunion too. i did not realize you had a bunion as well and that was the surgery you were considering. my rsd doc told me in no uncertain terms that bunion surgery was clearly out of the question. he said there is absolutely no way he would allow that surgery because the risks of even more pain and complications are far too great with that surgery. it is hard to believe that i could experience more pain that i already have, but he says that surgery would not be good at all with rsd.
and as far as the grain of sand in your sock feeling like you are being stabbed, i fully understand that feeling as well. my doc says that rsd just makes you feel pain so much more intensely than others. every little bump and knock can feel like a major injury. i even have to put on my socks inside out because i can not tolerate the seam in the toe of the sock. the hypersensitivity is a major component of rsd/crps.
i am sure you are aware of this fact, but rsd also causes spasms too, so along with having ms, i can not imagine what kind of spasms you must experience. i do know quite a few rsd sufferers who have foot drop.
when i saw your post, i thought i would throw this info out for your consideration. as i said earlier, i am not a medically trained person, but i have had this for 13 years, so my contribution to the post is purely from personal experience and information provided to me by my doctors.
best of luck.
spinky
i was just trying to read a bit here and saw this post. i am a little intimidated to try to explain anything about rsd/crps to a physician, but i do have some personal experience in this area! lol
your reaction to stimulus with your rsd affected foot is very normal for the disease. quite often an rsd patient can touch their own limb but can not tolerate anyone else's slightest touch. i think this has to do with us knowing our own body and which areas are just too sensitive to touch and how to handle the affected area as far as the force of the touch and so on. i am one who can not tolerate touch at all. the comment about the bed sheets hurting is all too familiar to me. i had to teach my husband to be careful in pulling the sheets and blankets across me because the pain is excruciating. i also have a lot of problems with my clothing hurting as well. i am constantly pulling on my clothes to lift them off of my skin.
the pain you are experiencing with minor trauma is also classic of rsd. the most minor or "accidents' like bumping into a door frame, or accidently hitting a limb on something...a type of incident that someone with rsd would not even notice, can hurt severely for hours. i am not well versed in ms but i am thinking that it is correct that the ms somehow short circuits the nerves so you dont feel the rsd pain. that makes sense to me because of how rsd can short circuit nerves.
rsd can cause severe neuropathy, which i also have with mine. it is weird to say but my rsd affected areas are both numb and extremely painful at the same time. i can not feel my feet on the floor, but i have excruciating pain in both feet. i know that makes no sense as numbness generally translates into no feeling at all, but rsd gives you both numbness and severe pain.
oddly enough, when i started having new pain in my right foot, and i spoke to my doc about it, on examination, he found that i have a bunion too. i did not realize you had a bunion as well and that was the surgery you were considering. my rsd doc told me in no uncertain terms that bunion surgery was clearly out of the question. he said there is absolutely no way he would allow that surgery because the risks of even more pain and complications are far too great with that surgery. it is hard to believe that i could experience more pain that i already have, but he says that surgery would not be good at all with rsd.
and as far as the grain of sand in your sock feeling like you are being stabbed, i fully understand that feeling as well. my doc says that rsd just makes you feel pain so much more intensely than others. every little bump and knock can feel like a major injury. i even have to put on my socks inside out because i can not tolerate the seam in the toe of the sock. the hypersensitivity is a major component of rsd/crps.
i am sure you are aware of this fact, but rsd also causes spasms too, so along with having ms, i can not imagine what kind of spasms you must experience. i do know quite a few rsd sufferers who have foot drop.
when i saw your post, i thought i would throw this info out for your consideration. as i said earlier, i am not a medically trained person, but i have had this for 13 years, so my contribution to the post is purely from personal experience and information provided to me by my doctors.
best of luck.
spinky
It is not unusual for one form of altered sensation to be assoicated with others. For example Trigeminal Neuralgia is often assoicated with reduced sensation to touch in the same area as the pain.
I used to live in Chicago and occasionally we would have minus 60*F (w/wind chill). Your eyeballs freeze in just a few minutes. I am sure that would cause any neuropathy to max out! Ick!
We all recommend the use of oven mitts, dear.
The opiates should work for allodynia of any cause. Just my guess. Opiates are not evil. They have their place and not everyone will become addicted with occasional use - especially to treat true pain.
Q
I used to live in Chicago and occasionally we would have minus 60*F (w/wind chill). Your eyeballs freeze in just a few minutes. I am sure that would cause any neuropathy to max out! Ick!
We all recommend the use of oven mitts, dear.
The opiates should work for allodynia of any cause. Just my guess. Opiates are not evil. They have their place and not everyone will become addicted with occasional use - especially to treat true pain.
Q
I also notice a hypersensitivity in the same hand/arm with regards to temperature.
It has been brutally cold here this past week - minus 48 celsius with windchill, if you can imagine, which most of you I'm sure cannot. Just a few minutes outside dusting snow off the car, and my left hand feels like a numb, clumsy stump. Likewise, I pick up something hot, ie tonight it was roasted carrots right out of the oven; to my fingers on my right hand, the carrots were hot, on the left side, it felt scalding hot and I had to drop them right away.
BTW I don't eat roasted carrots with my hands, I was just experimenting with my sensitivity to temperature. :)
It has been brutally cold here this past week - minus 48 celsius with windchill, if you can imagine, which most of you I'm sure cannot. Just a few minutes outside dusting snow off the car, and my left hand feels like a numb, clumsy stump. Likewise, I pick up something hot, ie tonight it was roasted carrots right out of the oven; to my fingers on my right hand, the carrots were hot, on the left side, it felt scalding hot and I had to drop them right away.
BTW I don't eat roasted carrots with my hands, I was just experimenting with my sensitivity to temperature. :)
Quix, I did look it up and the description seems to fit to a tee. Some of the sites I looked at said that opiates can sometimes help to relieve this symptom. Do you know if that works for allodynia caused by MS, or only from some of the other underlying conditions causing neuropathies? Not that I want to get doped up and hooked on opiates, but if they gave some relief when the symptom is at its worst, it would be nice to have this option.
Deb - Yes and no. I can lift my toes slowly, but the spasticity pulls them down. So, when I walk I can't lift them against the pull of spasticity (in the calf muscles) and I do have foot drop. But it would not be related to RSD in my case. Quix
I don't have this symptom, but my sister has it. She has left foot drop that is associated with her MS; however, the RSD possibility has been mentioned. She's not been diagnosed with RSD formally, but she has all of the symptoms that you've mentioned. She's had surgery to release a nerve, and the pain is better, but not gone completely. The color looks much better to me, but it still gets purplish after her foot is down. It is a far cry from the blackish color that it was before, and the intolerable pain from before. She told me that even the slightest touch of a sheet, at one point, was painful. Are you experiencing foot drop?
DeeVee - You are giving the exact definition of "allodynia" where a definite or firm stimulus may not hurt, but a light one may be unbearable. Almost right out of a dictionary, lol. You might look it up and be surprised.
q
q
My left hand is somehow numb and hypersensitive all at the same time. Sometimes it creeps up my arm too. A tight grip on it doesn't hurt, is actually soothing, but the light graze of a sleeve - could be cotton, cashmere, whatever - is like nails on a chalkboard. Blunt objects feel sharp, and I jump a bit, like being pricked with a pin unexpectedly. The edge of a sheet of paper can feel like a razor. But as I type this, my finger tips on my left hand barely feel the keys. I have to push hard just to know that I am actually hitting them at all. Weird.
Thank you for your advice. It helps immensely. I don't know if it truly is RSD - but no one has been able to think of whatever else it might be. I just wonder if the MS has so changed the pain pathways that it has also changed the pain part of the autonomic dysfunction. My whole leg on that side has markedly decreased sensation.
My plan is to avoid the surgery and continue to lurch about avoiding the attempt to flex the great toe.
Mary - it is interesting that you know what I mean about the tiny amount of "trauma" that unleashes ungodly pain. And then the pain is gone like nothing happened. Thanx.
Lu - Thank you, she and I have had an interesting discussion. Seems RSD without pain is an oxymoron. Oh, well. It is what it is.
Ren - I never noticed before, because I have always had so little leg hair, but there is almost no hair growing on that leg. Much less than the other leg. Weird.
Quix
My plan is to avoid the surgery and continue to lurch about avoiding the attempt to flex the great toe.
Mary - it is interesting that you know what I mean about the tiny amount of "trauma" that unleashes ungodly pain. And then the pain is gone like nothing happened. Thanx.
Lu - Thank you, she and I have had an interesting discussion. Seems RSD without pain is an oxymoron. Oh, well. It is what it is.
Ren - I never noticed before, because I have always had so little leg hair, but there is almost no hair growing on that leg. Much less than the other leg. Weird.
Quix
in regards to your question on surgery and CRPS - if you truly have RSD, then surgery could surely trigger a severe exacerbation of symptoms; there are things that can be done to limit that (a regional block during the surgery, 1200 mg of gabapentin the morning of surgery, and if you're having a general anesthetic - a ketamine infusion during the anesthetic); however, I would avoid surgery if at all possible unless it's absolutely indicated, because I've seen significant exacerbations brought on by the trauma of surgery - don't know if that helps, but Good Luck!! =)
Some parts of my body are extremely sensitive while others sort of disapear.And this seems to change randomly. I get bruises and dont remember doing anything to get the bruise.Or somthing really should hurt and it doesnt... It doesnt hurt to get my eyebrows waxed anymore I can barely feel it now..LOL
Take Care,Theresa
Take Care,Theresa
I have very similar sensitivity in my hands. I have to be very careful removing laundry from the washer. I can tap a finder on the agitator while taking clothes out and believe I have left parts of me behind from the degree of pain.
I scream and cuss for a minute or so and that seems to do the trick because at the end of that time my hands look the same, are intact, functional, and I'm unable to reproduce the pain. (I finally got smart. I don't try to reproduce the pain anymore!)
I have arthritis in my hands but this acts more like another form of hyperreflexia.
~Mary
I scream and cuss for a minute or so and that seems to do the trick because at the end of that time my hands look the same, are intact, functional, and I'm unable to reproduce the pain. (I finally got smart. I don't try to reproduce the pain anymore!)
I have arthritis in my hands but this acts more like another form of hyperreflexia.
~Mary
you might want to read this newbie post from earlier today and see if she can help fill in some blanks about rsd, and she has had it dx'd for a long time.
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Multiple-Sclerosis/could-this-be-ms/show/1122801
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Multiple-Sclerosis/could-this-be-ms/show/1122801
Ren - Thanks. I would rather not bring anything like that on. What you say makes sense, even though you may have seen a skewed population.
If you'd like a nurse's opinion who did med mal defense work for podiatrists, I can attest to the fact that surgery may indeed worsen the CRPS/RSD. However, the caveat to that statement is we only dealt with the complainers, not sure how much of a true representation I saw. The research I did on the subject did tend to bear this out.
My 2 cents worth,
Ren
My 2 cents worth,
Ren
Hi, Doc. I know that CRPS has hyperalgesia, but for the most part my limb with it is not painful. That is why the Physical Medicine doc decided to call it RSD. IT's hard to claim a pain syndrome without pain. I have the coolness, purplish mottling, swelling of the calf and ankle and dorsal swelling if the foot, but the limb is not a painful one - just when it is traumatized in exactly the right way. For the most part I just have reduced sensation. It is also the limb with seakness and spasticity.
Clearly I have some autonomic weirdness with it.
Are you well versed in CRPS? If so, may I ask a question? I have severe hallix rigidus in that great toe. This limits my stride and forces me to walk off the medial edge of it. The docs are recommending surgery to take the dorsal bunion down and try to give the great toe some flexion. I am afraid that the trauma of surgery might unleash that last symptom of RSD/CRPS - pain. Any thoughts as to whether that might be a legitimate concern?
Ren - your offer of a note of validation is sweet, but I think my family will always consider me a wus.
Quix
Clearly I have some autonomic weirdness with it.
Are you well versed in CRPS? If so, may I ask a question? I have severe hallix rigidus in that great toe. This limits my stride and forces me to walk off the medial edge of it. The docs are recommending surgery to take the dorsal bunion down and try to give the great toe some flexion. I am afraid that the trauma of surgery might unleash that last symptom of RSD/CRPS - pain. Any thoughts as to whether that might be a legitimate concern?
Ren - your offer of a note of validation is sweet, but I think my family will always consider me a wus.
Quix
I have had RSD in my right foot. In retrospect, classic symptoms: mottling of skin/purple hue when dependent, no hair growth, change in toenail thickness, coolness of skin, swelling on the dorsal portion of my foot only resembling a toddler's foot, and hyperesthesia.
This was about 7 years ago. I most likely already had my MS at this point in time but symptoms/relapses were few and far between. My hyperesthesia resembled your description. I could touch the foot and undergo an exam by a doc without screaming but if I hit the top of my foot or ankle area in a certain manner it was excruciating.
It took an uppity PCP (who fired me as a pt.over this), a rheumatologist, an orthopod, a neuro and finally a brillant vascular surgeon to dx mine. The ortho came close but the hyperesthia threw him off and then he said it could be yet another stress fracture in the foot but then the dorsal only swelling confused him. At least he put in the differential.
My pain was unusal in presentation and now I wonder if it was due to the MS since I do have decreased sensation to both soles of my feet.
Sorry you have this condition. I know how truly painful it can be! Do you want me to write you a note to show your family that you're not crazy or a big baby? :-))
Ren
This was about 7 years ago. I most likely already had my MS at this point in time but symptoms/relapses were few and far between. My hyperesthesia resembled your description. I could touch the foot and undergo an exam by a doc without screaming but if I hit the top of my foot or ankle area in a certain manner it was excruciating.
It took an uppity PCP (who fired me as a pt.over this), a rheumatologist, an orthopod, a neuro and finally a brillant vascular surgeon to dx mine. The ortho came close but the hyperesthia threw him off and then he said it could be yet another stress fracture in the foot but then the dorsal only swelling confused him. At least he put in the differential.
My pain was unusal in presentation and now I wonder if it was due to the MS since I do have decreased sensation to both soles of my feet.
Sorry you have this condition. I know how truly painful it can be! Do you want me to write you a note to show your family that you're not crazy or a big baby? :-))
Ren
I have just the opposite problem. Every so often my left foot will completely disappear. No feeling at all! I think I could hit it with a hammer and still wiould not feel a thing. It is as if my foot had been cut off just below the ankle. The strange thing is that I can move my foot and toes just fine I just can't feel anything.
Dennis
Dennis
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Multiple Sclerosis Community
Top Neurology Answerers
Australia
ON
Queensland, Australia
Queen Creek, AZ
Find out how beta-blocker eye drops show promising results for acute migraine relief.
In this special Missouri Medicine report, doctors examine advances in diagnosis and treatment of this devastating and costly neurodegenerative disease.
Here are 12 simple – and fun! – ways to boost your brainpower.
Discover some of the causes of dizziness and how to treat it.
Discover the common causes of headaches and how to treat headache pain.
Two of the largest studies on Alzheimer’s have yielded new clues about the disease
