MS or symptoms from cervical c5-6 disc rupture?

[JoelleB1]

Hey Quix...dont know if you know much about this..or if this sounds like MS to you....can you take a look and just give me your opinion?  Thanks!!

Did yard work on fathers day, lifted a lawn mower into a trailer and 2 hours of weekwacking.  Woke up the next morning being off balance, clumsy hands,weak arms,  and fatigue.  The fatigue lasted about 3 days and then went away.  I have also experienced severe neck pain and burning sensation across my shoulder area.  I had an MRI 3 wks after symptoms presented and it was completely normal.  Few weeks later had numb sensation down the left side of my body..which lasted a few hours.  I had every blood test under the sun and they were all normal.  Finally went to a MS specialist to see what he thought, and he said I dont have it...and that none of what Im experienceing fits MS...especially with the normal MRI and a normal neuro eval.  I had him to a cervical MRI to make sure no lesions in the spinal cord.  What we found was a ruptured disc at c5-6 narrowing the spinal canal to 8mm, with right cord flattening (about 50 percent).  My symptoms have gotten a bit better, but I still have extremely weak arms and clumsy hands.  I have started traction, but after the first session it seemed to make my clumsy hands worse.  More recently I have now been having left sided numbness in my lip and tongue..not complete numbness, but a burning, numbing feeling which has be present for about 2 wks now..  

My question is...first is traction usually effective for disc rupture, when it involves the cord.
Second...can my numbness in the lip and tongue be caused by the cervical disc rupture?  I read somewhere taht the nerves in the mandible area also run through the cervical spine area when dealing with sensation etc.  Is this true and can this be what the numbness is??  Or should I ask for another MRI to once again rule out MS?

Thanks in advance!

[JoelleB1]

by the way...just a side note...I believe doctors are a special breed of people.  You are invaluable to this group, and your knowledge and expertise is beyond helpful!  Being a baby doc, to me, shows patience and compassion that alot of docs dont have!  It takes a speical brain to endure the process it takes to be a doctor, and a special way your brain takes in info and then inturn gives it back to patients.  I appreciate all your knowledge as I know everyone else here does, and if it wasnt for enduring medical school, residency, surgicial residency, and fellowships throughout my younger years, I might have dabbled in the medical field, specifically dealing with children, so I respect what you are doing and what you have done in your life!  Thank you!!!

[JoelleB1]

Thanks Quix....I did read somewhere that myelopethy can cause you to be off balance.  I have not had dizziness, but a feeling of rocking while Im standing still.  Never the less, I will be asking the neurosergeon for a MRI of the brain again before I submit to surgery to make sure nothing has popped up.  I had my first MRI of the brain 3 wks after symptoms started, and I had quite a few....do you think that was sufficient time to wait for lesions to appear if they were going to?  If not, do you think 4-5 months of symptoms would be sufficient to see lesions if there were going to be any?  Thanks again...and I too have had benign positional vertigo and also had the epley maneuver...and it seems so hoaky..but it works...and my dad runs 2 epley clinics in his office a week to treat people..so it really helps!!

[Quixotic1]

Hi, there, you were high on my list.  I tried to get to you last night, but wanted to look something up.

First, the bulging disc with a large amount of flattening of the cord would be causing all the physical symptoms from the shoulders and arms down.  It will not cause fatigue, dizziness, and ,lfrom my reading it will NOT cause the numbness and tingling of the face and lip.  (you can check this with your dad. BTW - I worship neuro-otologists!  Dr. John Epley treated my vertigo for years and saved my life - figuratively)  That nerve is from the 5th cranial nerve and it exits the brainstem much, much higher than your bulging disc.  It is true that the two highest cervical nerves send branches up to the scalp in the back of the head, but not the face.

I know that some chiropractors claim that cervical "misalignments" can cause dizziness and other things known to be handled by nerves higher up, but I believe this to be hooey.

So, you really need to get the cervical problem resolved to see what is left.  I would put the worry about MS on the back burner right now.  Listen to your father - these guys know a lot!

Sorry I was late in getting to this.  I had to look up the innervation of the upper cervical nerves - not being a neurologist, you know, just an old baby doctor (as one of our recent dissatified posters called me, lol)

Quix

[JoelleB1]

Quix..i know your a busy woman...but would you mind looking at my question?  Thanks!!

[JoelleB1]

Thanks for the info...Im sorry its been such a long journey for you.  I have only been dealing with this since June of this year.  My dad is a neurootologist, so Ive been around drs my whole life.  Im seeing one of his friends (neuro surgeon) and he is telling me if the traction doesnt work that I should have surgery.  I guess ill give the traction a few more weeks and then ask for another brain MRI...my first was with and without contrast on a 1.5T machine...so I will be getting my next one on a 3T machine to make sure nothing is missed.  I hope to God they dont find anything again, and my issues really are from the disc flattening my spinal cord!!!  Good luck to you!

[JulesL5S1]

The reality of MS is that very few get a "quick" dx.  For many it is a long journey of years.   Hence there is club here on the forum of Limbo Landers.  

Keeping a time line is important and if you decide to "fire" any of your doctors request complete copies of your files.  You may have to pay for this but it is worth the money.

I saw a neurologist back in 2000 who was a specialist in MS but I was seeing him for L5/S1 disk problems.  In retrospect (i.e. 20/20 hindsight) he was ready to dx me with MS but the MRI showed more disk fragments (I had already had two operations).  I wish I had those records but I didn't think to ask for them.

This year starting in Jan/Feb I began again to loose the vision in my right eye.  It would totally go blind for several minutes then return gradually.  Sometimes followed by days of pain on that side of my head.  This led to trip back to optomalogist who found nothing.  Around the same time I was loosing control of my hands.  I could no longer hold a hair brush or a hair dryer, ended up cutting my hair short, couldn't hold a spoon, had no hand-eye coordination, etc.  Constantly dropping things, running into things, loosing my balance, etc.  So I made an appt with a neurologist.  I wanted to see the one that I had seen in 2000 however he works out of an office in the city and my condition was bad enough that I knew I couldn't drive there.  So I tried another neurologist.  This neurologist ordered brain MRI.  Open MRI .7T without contrast to rule out stroke or tumor.  Good news, no stroke, no tumor.  Neuro said everything was optic migraine.  Eventually prescribed RelPax.  I LOVE the Relpax for the migraines.  

However all of the other problems remained.  Then I fell again in June and tore ligaments in my ankle.  I did research on my symptoms and stumbled upon MS.  Asked migraine neuro about it and he said no way, I don't have MS but am now having phasic migraines.

I had a long talk with my PCP.  She ordered a lumbar MRI because I always have limited nerve response in my left foot due to the L5/S1 injury and 3 operations.  Sept I had lumbar MRI and of course there are problems.  Back to neurosurgeon.  Oh, in Dec 2004 I had a week when I couldn't walk at all.  Then in 2005/2006 episodes of "legs asleep" for several days.  Anyways, my neurosurgeon did lots of nerve tests and noticed my hyperactive reflexes.  He said then the lumbar MRI did not support my symptoms.  So he ordered cervical MRI.  That MRI was beautiful except for the bulging disk at C6.  Neurosurgeon said that he believed I had MS, the disk couldn't be causing my problems.  

Meanwhile I asked my PCP for a recommendation for a neurologist (other than migraine neuro).  She said Dr. C.  Neurosurgeon was thrilled I was going to Dr. C.

Dr. C only let me focus on ONE symptom!  I chose fatigue.  We've worked on this in detail.  Now I have been dx'ed with narcolepsy and cataplexy.  I looked those up - - I definitely have cataplexy!  We're trying to treat those.  

So I am still in Limbo Land.  But I can say that I have doctors that I have trust in.  The journey continues.  

[JoelleB1]

I have been to a neuro surgeon already...he is the one who is having me do traction...at the moment.  He said he thinks my symptoms can be related to my ruptured disc...a mild form of mylopethy....but he also said the numbness in my face could not be explained by the ruptured disc.  So I dont really know what to think.  I dont want surgery if its really MS causing my symptoms..but I want to be able to put the MS issue to rest if it really isnt that.  I also saw a MS specialist who said I dont have MS...but when I read his notes his synopsis of my issues were all wrong.  He had my dates wrong, how long things last etc wrong..so I wonder..is he really paying attention to me..or because I had a negative MRI of the brain...he is baseing his opinion on that?  I obviously dont want MS..but I also want to be on drugs if I do have it.  MS specialist told me that it is highly unlikely to have a MS and not have lesions...which I know but I guess I wonder if I had my MRI too soon when the symptoms surfaced... only 3 wks later.  So Im stuck.. So what other symptoms do you have?

[JulesL5S1]

Hi!,  I'm not a doctor and I'm not Quix.  However, I do have a bulging disk at C6.  And many of the same symptoms that you have.  My neurosurgeon won't operate at the moment because he believes I have MS and wants that ruled out first.  (I have many more problems that make my neurosurgeon suspect MS).  Have you taken your MRI to a neurosurgeon?  My neurosurgeon (he also did my back operation in 2001 for the ruputured disk at L5/S1) was wonderful about explaining what showed on the MRIs and what symptoms that is causing and what symptoms still need another dx. I suggest getting a recommendation for a good neurosurgeon and seeing the neurosurgeon.  He/She should be able to explain what your options are.  Good Luck.