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Better immune system?!
Hi all, I have noticed that I rarely seem to catch any of the colds & bugs doing the rounds but before my MS dx I used to pick up every illness going! Is this a coincidence or is this something to do with my immune system fighting back? I thought that MS would weaken the immune system, if anything!
I have remained pretty darn healthy for years and the only sick days I use at work seem to be related to MS appointments and related down time. I'll hold onto the thought that MS has one thing going for it even though from this conversation it looks like that prbably isn't medically accurate. Great discussion everyone!
Good shout twopack; I guess there is no way of knowing for sure but another thing which interests me about this subject is whether it's only ppl with ms who notice this as I know several people with different autoimmune conditions who still get an average number or colds or whatwever. I wish there could be more investigation into this!
I'd vote for caution in drawing conclusions here Zoe. "This many people" only adds up to a dozen so far. It’s an interesting topic alright but to me it is frustrating as well. There are so many factors to consider. But to be sure, those who aren't susceptible to viral illnesses should enjoy that aspect of their health.
Interesting comments from everyone!
I doubt that science will ever consider this to be so important that they start keeping numbers or asking pertinent questions about it in order to do so and because many factors enter into it, it may never be a clear cut statistic.
I find both sides most interesting but will go on enjoying having no colds, no flu (no shots) nothing but pesky UTIs which I will endure in lieu of respiratory stuff...........
Onward and upward, gang !!
I doubt that science will ever consider this to be so important that they start keeping numbers or asking pertinent questions about it in order to do so and because many factors enter into it, it may never be a clear cut statistic.
I find both sides most interesting but will go on enjoying having no colds, no flu (no shots) nothing but pesky UTIs which I will endure in lieu of respiratory stuff...........
Onward and upward, gang !!
This is really interesting me now as there does definitely be something at play here. With this many people it can't just be a coincidence! Btw, I'm not on a DMD either so that's not a factor for me but I guess it definitey could be for others. I may be starting Tysabri soon and I'm expecting that to weaken my immune system so I think I better make the most of not getting bugs!
Just on a completely different note, can anybody explain when or what basis PPS is diagnosed? I'm RRMS but never seem to get any let-up at all with sx and I'm starting to wonder if its ppms instead? I'm guessing that would have an impact on how often one gets sick?
Just on a completely different note, can anybody explain when or what basis PPS is diagnosed? I'm RRMS but never seem to get any let-up at all with sx and I'm starting to wonder if its ppms instead? I'm guessing that would have an impact on how often one gets sick?
I have gotten a few less colds per year than pre-dx, but I've thought it was probably because my exposure has greatly decreased since I've been off work. My employer has a fairly lucrative reward system for those with good attendance, so at my company I think we have the opposite problem to absenteeism, which we in HR call presenteeism, ie coming to work sick. I interfaced with many employees on a regular basis and it seemed there were always a few with the sniffles or even downright hacking coughs. I think about all those airborne germs, and all the common surfaces one touches during the course of a day, hand shaking, etc. Yuck. So not being in that environment obviously limits my exposure to those viruses.
I've also increased my Vit D intake as I was found to be deficient upon dx. The research is conflicting, but some studies suggest D is protective against infections.
I still travel, but have become a total germophobe, wiping down with alcohol pads my seatbelt and table tray on the plane, and light switches, door knobs, faucets, remote control, etc in hotel rooms. I frequently use hand sanitizer and avoid putting my hands near my mouth, nose and eyes. I'm much more vigilant nowadays as I worry about a virus triggering a relapse. I caught a cold a few years ago when travelling that may have triggered my bout of O.N. No way to know for sure, though.
Another factor that occurred to me is that PwMS are often forced to rest frequently, and get more sleep, due to the fatigue that many of us experience. It's possible that the extra rest we have no choice but to get just to make it through the day, is also protective against picking up a bug . We're more susceptible to colds and flu when we don't get enough rest, get run down, and end up compromising our immune systems.
All theories, as I really have no idea, but it's an interesting topic for sure. Must be some good research on it out there somewhere?
I've also increased my Vit D intake as I was found to be deficient upon dx. The research is conflicting, but some studies suggest D is protective against infections.
I still travel, but have become a total germophobe, wiping down with alcohol pads my seatbelt and table tray on the plane, and light switches, door knobs, faucets, remote control, etc in hotel rooms. I frequently use hand sanitizer and avoid putting my hands near my mouth, nose and eyes. I'm much more vigilant nowadays as I worry about a virus triggering a relapse. I caught a cold a few years ago when travelling that may have triggered my bout of O.N. No way to know for sure, though.
Another factor that occurred to me is that PwMS are often forced to rest frequently, and get more sleep, due to the fatigue that many of us experience. It's possible that the extra rest we have no choice but to get just to make it through the day, is also protective against picking up a bug . We're more susceptible to colds and flu when we don't get enough rest, get run down, and end up compromising our immune systems.
All theories, as I really have no idea, but it's an interesting topic for sure. Must be some good research on it out there somewhere?
Personally, I had one childhood illness or cold after another as a kid but got over that trend once my tonsils were removed. These days I'm probably in the low average or below average range if the measure is colds per year. It's a little hard to figure when the husband sniffs, snorts and coughs his way through several contagions each year. He did manage to share his latest edition with me this week :(
I don't know that there is a clear answer to this question. I've heard the reasoning about "immune system components" before. I know there are a variety of functions within the immune system but the published doctor's answer reads awkwardly to me and I'm not clear of his meaning. I presume references weren't offered because the comment was based on general information learned in medical school and clinical training and used in daily practice.
The idea makes some sense though. Our MS immune systems aren't so much super-protective. They are..... mis-directed - kind of like a case of 'friendly fire'? I also think doublevision made a variety of excellent points.
On the other hand......
There is also a school of thought that claims MS progression is the result of a chronic infectious process. If sub-acute infections (and inflammations) stimulate the immune system is that process causing an attack on myelin or protecting us from a never ending barrage of bugs and viruses?
I do believe Dr. Quix stated in the past that studies reveal PwMS get fewer viral illnesses than people in the general population. I'm not sure she gave citations either though. She usually backed up her lessons with info she learned while working in infectious disease medicine.
I don't know that there is a clear answer to this question. I've heard the reasoning about "immune system components" before. I know there are a variety of functions within the immune system but the published doctor's answer reads awkwardly to me and I'm not clear of his meaning. I presume references weren't offered because the comment was based on general information learned in medical school and clinical training and used in daily practice.
The idea makes some sense though. Our MS immune systems aren't so much super-protective. They are..... mis-directed - kind of like a case of 'friendly fire'? I also think doublevision made a variety of excellent points.
On the other hand......
There is also a school of thought that claims MS progression is the result of a chronic infectious process. If sub-acute infections (and inflammations) stimulate the immune system is that process causing an attack on myelin or protecting us from a never ending barrage of bugs and viruses?
I do believe Dr. Quix stated in the past that studies reveal PwMS get fewer viral illnesses than people in the general population. I'm not sure she gave citations either though. She usually backed up her lessons with info she learned while working in infectious disease medicine.
(cont).
I was having the same problem with posts not being saved as DV was.
When you think about it it does make sense that Neuros probably don't know the whole picture when it comes to our immune system When you go to your eye doctor do you tell them I have not had any colds or flu in years? Or that you have been having lots of colds? It is the same way when we talk to our Neuros. They probably only hear about colds or flu when one of us catch something which causes a flare.
So I am a firm believer that our immune systems are on steroids compared to the rest of the population. Especially since I also have another autoimmune disease (Sjogren's) which the current thinking is that this is triggered by a virus.
As for the UTI we have. Sure we get them a lot. But when you consider that we also have a lot of retention problems that is understandable. Our immune systems can only handle so much even if the are super active.
My daughter use to get them all the time when she was a child. But in her case it was not due to retention, but a lack of strength to close things up down there. So the bacteria could invade her bladder easily from just taking a bath. For all we know some of the UTI that we get could be from the same cause as hers. One of the hallmarks of MS is weak muscles due to lack of signals.
Well I can't think of anything else right now.
Dennis
I was having the same problem with posts not being saved as DV was.
When you think about it it does make sense that Neuros probably don't know the whole picture when it comes to our immune system When you go to your eye doctor do you tell them I have not had any colds or flu in years? Or that you have been having lots of colds? It is the same way when we talk to our Neuros. They probably only hear about colds or flu when one of us catch something which causes a flare.
So I am a firm believer that our immune systems are on steroids compared to the rest of the population. Especially since I also have another autoimmune disease (Sjogren's) which the current thinking is that this is triggered by a virus.
As for the UTI we have. Sure we get them a lot. But when you consider that we also have a lot of retention problems that is understandable. Our immune systems can only handle so much even if the are super active.
My daughter use to get them all the time when she was a child. But in her case it was not due to retention, but a lack of strength to close things up down there. So the bacteria could invade her bladder easily from just taking a bath. For all we know some of the UTI that we get could be from the same cause as hers. One of the hallmarks of MS is weak muscles due to lack of signals.
Well I can't think of anything else right now.
Dennis
(cont)
ME - PPMS don't get sick very often.
Before the MS started I was sick about he normal amount for someone.
Actually when I had my first attack one of my problems was that I became allergic to almost everything in the world. But I also stopped getting sick from flu or colds despite that my wife and daughter would catch everything that came around. About 10 years into this MS my immune system must have calmed down some as the allergies started going away one by one. And in 2008 I was back to no allergies (other than bees and wasps). But during all of this time (20+ years now) I have not been getting sick and have not been on a DMD. In 2010 after finally getting my DX I was put on an very strong dose of immunosuppressor. Since then I have only gotten sick once (slight head cold) which I got over quickly. Also despite the strong dosage my WBC is only at the low end of normal. In fact when I got stung by a wasp this summer my reaction as a lot milder than in the past (it is suppose to get worse each time) and my WBC only got into the upper range of normal. So the medication I am on is suppressing my immune system.
I think the problem is that the Neuros are concentrating on the Immune system as it relates to MS and not factoring in what is going on elsewhere.
Dennis
ME - PPMS don't get sick very often.
Before the MS started I was sick about he normal amount for someone.
Actually when I had my first attack one of my problems was that I became allergic to almost everything in the world. But I also stopped getting sick from flu or colds despite that my wife and daughter would catch everything that came around. About 10 years into this MS my immune system must have calmed down some as the allergies started going away one by one. And in 2008 I was back to no allergies (other than bees and wasps). But during all of this time (20+ years now) I have not been getting sick and have not been on a DMD. In 2010 after finally getting my DX I was put on an very strong dose of immunosuppressor. Since then I have only gotten sick once (slight head cold) which I got over quickly. Also despite the strong dosage my WBC is only at the low end of normal. In fact when I got stung by a wasp this summer my reaction as a lot milder than in the past (it is suppose to get worse each time) and my WBC only got into the upper range of normal. So the medication I am on is suppressing my immune system.
I think the problem is that the Neuros are concentrating on the Immune system as it relates to MS and not factoring in what is going on elsewhere.
Dennis
Ok ess. here it comes.
MS runs in my family.
Cousin - died in 1957 never was sick after MS started.
I don't have much in the way of first hand for my cousin since I was only 8 when he died but I do remember how everyone kept saying how healthy he was right up until the end. Needless to say he was never on a DMD.
Father - died in 2004 never sick after MS.
While growing up my father would always get sick along with anyone else in the family. But once he developed MS (age 40) he never got sick again. This despite the fact my mom was constantly getting sick and him volunteering at hospitals as a minister. He was never on a DMD.
Niece - Probably MS has not been sick in years.
She is probable MS but due to lack of insurance has not been able to get an official DX.
Brother _ possible MS gets sick all of the time.
He is possible as his symptoms almost exactly matches mine. But he is one of those that does not trust doctors as as such has not even attempted to get a DX for his symptoms. He also does not take care of himself very well (bad diet, doesn't sleep much, etc) so I kind of put down the sickness due to his lifestyle.
Dennis
MS runs in my family.
Cousin - died in 1957 never was sick after MS started.
I don't have much in the way of first hand for my cousin since I was only 8 when he died but I do remember how everyone kept saying how healthy he was right up until the end. Needless to say he was never on a DMD.
Father - died in 2004 never sick after MS.
While growing up my father would always get sick along with anyone else in the family. But once he developed MS (age 40) he never got sick again. This despite the fact my mom was constantly getting sick and him volunteering at hospitals as a minister. He was never on a DMD.
Niece - Probably MS has not been sick in years.
She is probable MS but due to lack of insurance has not been able to get an official DX.
Brother _ possible MS gets sick all of the time.
He is possible as his symptoms almost exactly matches mine. But he is one of those that does not trust doctors as as such has not even attempted to get a DX for his symptoms. He also does not take care of himself very well (bad diet, doesn't sleep much, etc) so I kind of put down the sickness due to his lifestyle.
Dennis
I know next to nothing about how the immune system actually works. I didn't know it has various components which are seemingly compartmentalized, as the quotation indicates, and in fact I just thought it was one general system.
I do get that anecdotal info is merely that, and there could be all sorts of causes and effects behind individual experiences. It is never wise to leap to conclusions based on unscientifically processed data.
Having said all that, though, I still find it interesting that so many of us have had experiences that deviate so much from the norm, and I think it's a stretch to conclude it's all coincidental.
We are talking about two types of MSers in this thread. One describes those of us whose lifelong immune responses have been extraordinarily strong. Could a little push from MS forces have caused strong to become out of control?
The other group is comprised of those who traditionally have had average or weaker immune systems (if history of illness is a measure of this), but who now find themselves in the strong category. True, lots of factors may come into play here, but on its face it does seem odd.
If a good, fact-based laymen's explanation exists for all of this, could someone point it out?
ess
I do get that anecdotal info is merely that, and there could be all sorts of causes and effects behind individual experiences. It is never wise to leap to conclusions based on unscientifically processed data.
Having said all that, though, I still find it interesting that so many of us have had experiences that deviate so much from the norm, and I think it's a stretch to conclude it's all coincidental.
We are talking about two types of MSers in this thread. One describes those of us whose lifelong immune responses have been extraordinarily strong. Could a little push from MS forces have caused strong to become out of control?
The other group is comprised of those who traditionally have had average or weaker immune systems (if history of illness is a measure of this), but who now find themselves in the strong category. True, lots of factors may come into play here, but on its face it does seem odd.
If a good, fact-based laymen's explanation exists for all of this, could someone point it out?
ess
Just an observation--aren't there some DMDs that suppress the immune system and others that act in a different way? So, could it be possible that some people might get sick more often because of the type of DMD they are taking, not because of the MS itself?
That could explain why quite a few people seem to not be sick so much when they begin having MS symptoms and depending on the DMD, or lack thereof,,either begin getting sick a lot or still remain relatively healthy otherwise.
Again, just a thought. I admit I don't know much! :)
That could explain why quite a few people seem to not be sick so much when they begin having MS symptoms and depending on the DMD, or lack thereof,,either begin getting sick a lot or still remain relatively healthy otherwise.
Again, just a thought. I admit I don't know much! :)
Well I am glad I posted this now as I was beginning to think I was iagining things! I used to get colds etc wayyy more than average but post dx I never seem to catch stuff and I for one think there is a medical explanation for this. Handwashing etc is not a logical answer for me as I am a super duper hygene freak :-)
Since all my symptoms started 3 years ago, I have not had a single cold, the only illness I have had was a UTI which I ot over in 3 days with no antibotic's.
As I work with children I use to get colds all the time and each winter I would end up on steriods & antibotic's for a chest infection which aggravated my asthma, at least once if not more.
So I have no doubt that this has some conection with my immune system being hyper active.
As I work with children I use to get colds all the time and each winter I would end up on steriods & antibotic's for a chest infection which aggravated my asthma, at least once if not more.
So I have no doubt that this has some conection with my immune system being hyper active.
.....cont'd.....
It may very well be true that MS patients experience fewer colds & flu post-dx than pre-dx. But I think it's jumping to conclusions to assume that the MS gives us stronger immune systems and that is what is reducing the incidence rate. Otherwise known in research as a hasty generalization, or coming to a conclusion without considering all relevant variables.
For example, once dx'ed with MS, we may:
- be more likely to get a flu shot
- increase our intake of Vitamin D and other protective supplements
- cease smoking
- improve our diet
- exercise more
All of which protect our immune system.
Also:
- Those of us who are no longer working or are virtually housebound may come into less physical contact with others which decreases our exposure to cold & flu virus
- We may travel less, thus decreasing our contact with unfamiliar viruses for which we have not developed immunity
- Being mindful that a cold or flu may trigger a relapse, we may be more conscientious about preventative strategies against infection such as thorough handwashing
In other words, if it's true that people with MS get colds & flu less often than pre-dx and less often than the general population - which would be great for us! - it may simply be due to an association rather than a causal link. Or, it may indeed be casual. I'm just saying, I don't know, but would be careful not to draw a hasty conclusion based on a small, perhaps unrepresentative sample, without consideration of variables such as the ones mentioned above.
My 3 cents!
It may very well be true that MS patients experience fewer colds & flu post-dx than pre-dx. But I think it's jumping to conclusions to assume that the MS gives us stronger immune systems and that is what is reducing the incidence rate. Otherwise known in research as a hasty generalization, or coming to a conclusion without considering all relevant variables.
For example, once dx'ed with MS, we may:
- be more likely to get a flu shot
- increase our intake of Vitamin D and other protective supplements
- cease smoking
- improve our diet
- exercise more
All of which protect our immune system.
Also:
- Those of us who are no longer working or are virtually housebound may come into less physical contact with others which decreases our exposure to cold & flu virus
- We may travel less, thus decreasing our contact with unfamiliar viruses for which we have not developed immunity
- Being mindful that a cold or flu may trigger a relapse, we may be more conscientious about preventative strategies against infection such as thorough handwashing
In other words, if it's true that people with MS get colds & flu less often than pre-dx and less often than the general population - which would be great for us! - it may simply be due to an association rather than a causal link. Or, it may indeed be casual. I'm just saying, I don't know, but would be careful not to draw a hasty conclusion based on a small, perhaps unrepresentative sample, without consideration of variables such as the ones mentioned above.
My 3 cents!
OK, that last one worked! I'll try breaking my post into smaller sections:
The response of the neuro cited above does make sense to me.....based on my extremely limited understanding of the immune system in general and the disease process of MS specifically. I do wish s/he had provided a reference for their comment. I assume it's based on research but no way to know for sure without the reference.
I don't see how the immune response which targets the CNS would immunize us from respiratory and similar infections. If our immune response is in fact stronger overall, why then the increased incidence of urinary tract infections in MS patients? We know risk of UTIs are higher in those of us who have impaired bladder function either due to the disease process itself or as a side effect of many of the mnay medications we take. So our risk is higher, but shouldn't actual incidence of UTIs then be reduced if indeed MS gives us stronger immunity overall?
This question does come up here at least a few times a year. Many of the same members respond each time, so what may appear to be many members having the same experience may be a smaller number simply reiterating a particular experience. Many here have said they rarely got colds or flu even before their MS dx. On occasion, we have members who post with the opposite experience: that since their MS dx, they catch colds more frequently.
The response of the neuro cited above does make sense to me.....based on my extremely limited understanding of the immune system in general and the disease process of MS specifically. I do wish s/he had provided a reference for their comment. I assume it's based on research but no way to know for sure without the reference.
I don't see how the immune response which targets the CNS would immunize us from respiratory and similar infections. If our immune response is in fact stronger overall, why then the increased incidence of urinary tract infections in MS patients? We know risk of UTIs are higher in those of us who have impaired bladder function either due to the disease process itself or as a side effect of many of the mnay medications we take. So our risk is higher, but shouldn't actual incidence of UTIs then be reduced if indeed MS gives us stronger immunity overall?
This question does come up here at least a few times a year. Many of the same members respond each time, so what may appear to be many members having the same experience may be a smaller number simply reiterating a particular experience. Many here have said they rarely got colds or flu even before their MS dx. On occasion, we have members who post with the opposite experience: that since their MS dx, they catch colds more frequently.
anyone having trouble posting today? I have tried replying to a few and get a message that just says my post wasn't saved, but not why?
Ess
you are right have to grab any positive you can - I am tired enough don't need colds and flu adding to it!
you are right have to grab any positive you can - I am tired enough don't need colds and flu adding to it!
I am with you on that one - I would stand behind the ms patients too! although my neuro agreed with me when I tell him I never get colds or flu. Even rarely get an infection from a cut and I had two surgeries in the past 8 years and my doctor was amazed at how fast and well I healed.
Hi SarahL - I was thinking the same thing. So many of us over the years with the same lack of sickness experience. The very same question comes up over and over since I joined in 07.
I think Doc Q may have addressed this in the past as well I'll have to dig for it.
Regardless, dozens of us in the same boat. It's evidence to me.
I think Doc Q may have addressed this in the past as well I'll have to dig for it.
Regardless, dozens of us in the same boat. It's evidence to me.
So if we took a poll and 100 MS patients had less colds/flu, etc., and one neuro says there is no significant decrease for us (my words not his)
I'll stand behind the 100 MS patients........I don't know where this guy got his opinion. Not trying to start a feud, just saying he didn't elaborate or state his source. just food for thought
I'll stand behind the 100 MS patients........I don't know where this guy got his opinion. Not trying to start a feud, just saying he didn't elaborate or state his source. just food for thought
This is interesting, because I have been thinking about this for a few weeks now. My hubby and son have both got the flu that is going around now, and I was really worried that I would maybe be more sensitive to getting it, because I feel weak. But no I have not got it yet (but of course I am still in limbo so I don´t count).
I´m not sure how much neurologist is necessarily right in matters like this, I think if we would do a poll that would tell us more.
My best,
Dagun
I´m not sure how much neurologist is necessarily right in matters like this, I think if we would do a poll that would tell us more.
My best,
Dagun
A similar question was posted just this week on msanswers.ca, a Q&A site for patients run by the MS Society of Canada, and was answered by a clinical neurologist.
Answered on: 11/5/2012
Q :
Since the immune system is in "over-drive" with MS will I get sick less often? Will my overactive immune system keep colds and flu away?
A :
The immune dysfunction in MS is specifically directed against certain components of the central nervous system. Individuals with MS are not at higher or lower risk of contracting infections than the general population.
Answered on: 11/5/2012
Q :
Since the immune system is in "over-drive" with MS will I get sick less often? Will my overactive immune system keep colds and flu away?
A :
The immune dysfunction in MS is specifically directed against certain components of the central nervous system. Individuals with MS are not at higher or lower risk of contracting infections than the general population.
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