Aa
MS, Pregnancy, and Epidurals
I have one child and had to undergo an emergency c-section. I have heard that if I have another child, it is recommended that MS patients do not have an epidural? Has anyone else heard that?
it is extremely rare to have permanent nerve damage from an epidural during labor. I have been an anesthetist for years, ⅓ of my practice is labor and delivery
we place epidurals below the caudal equine, or where the spinal cord ends and has nerves free floating in the csf. an epidural (epi means 'on top of' dura is the tough fibrous membrane that encapsulates the brain and spinal cord which is floating in csf. so when we place the epidural, the catheter is placed just outside the dura. we inject local anesthetics into the epidural space which bathes the nerves emerging from the dural sac. this is why we can get people numb from the level we place the catheter (usually L3 or 4)down
since we aren't anywhere near the nerve with the epidural needle, the chances of physical nerve damage are very low. sometimes people get a 'parathesia'- tingling- when we thread the catheter because sometimes it brushes against one of the emerging nerves.
with people like us that have MS, however, we try to avoid spinal anesthetics. this procedure involves taking a very tiny needle and purposely puncturing the dura and injecting very small concentrated amounts of local anesthetics (and sometimes a narcotic) directly into the csf. patients with MS might have a damaged nerve nearby, and we get concerned re: toxicity and causing damage to a nerve.
this is not necessarily a problem- it is theoretical discussion. some anthesia providers will do spinals, others won't. in my practice I avoided spinals but put in epidurals. if the patient has had extensive back surgeries with hardware, generally would simply go directly to a general anesthetic if a c-section became necessary.
hope this alleviates some of your fears. I often had patients report they had a friend that had a friend that had a cousin (or whatever) that had a spinal and ended up in a wheelchair. if you look at the incidence of complications after epidural with MS patients, you will find this is an EXTREMELY RARE occurrence.
the other point is: some women come into L&D insisting on an ED, only to find they don't need one. conversely, some come in determined to have a natural childbirth, or perhaps only a little IV narcotic, and end up needing an ED. my point is this: labor is a dynamic process. it is a good idea to have a birth plan to have a general idea what you would like to do. but babies have a tendency to have not read your birth plan, so keep an open mind.
we place epidurals below the caudal equine, or where the spinal cord ends and has nerves free floating in the csf. an epidural (epi means 'on top of' dura is the tough fibrous membrane that encapsulates the brain and spinal cord which is floating in csf. so when we place the epidural, the catheter is placed just outside the dura. we inject local anesthetics into the epidural space which bathes the nerves emerging from the dural sac. this is why we can get people numb from the level we place the catheter (usually L3 or 4)down
since we aren't anywhere near the nerve with the epidural needle, the chances of physical nerve damage are very low. sometimes people get a 'parathesia'- tingling- when we thread the catheter because sometimes it brushes against one of the emerging nerves.
with people like us that have MS, however, we try to avoid spinal anesthetics. this procedure involves taking a very tiny needle and purposely puncturing the dura and injecting very small concentrated amounts of local anesthetics (and sometimes a narcotic) directly into the csf. patients with MS might have a damaged nerve nearby, and we get concerned re: toxicity and causing damage to a nerve.
this is not necessarily a problem- it is theoretical discussion. some anthesia providers will do spinals, others won't. in my practice I avoided spinals but put in epidurals. if the patient has had extensive back surgeries with hardware, generally would simply go directly to a general anesthetic if a c-section became necessary.
hope this alleviates some of your fears. I often had patients report they had a friend that had a friend that had a cousin (or whatever) that had a spinal and ended up in a wheelchair. if you look at the incidence of complications after epidural with MS patients, you will find this is an EXTREMELY RARE occurrence.
the other point is: some women come into L&D insisting on an ED, only to find they don't need one. conversely, some come in determined to have a natural childbirth, or perhaps only a little IV narcotic, and end up needing an ED. my point is this: labor is a dynamic process. it is a good idea to have a birth plan to have a general idea what you would like to do. but babies have a tendency to have not read your birth plan, so keep an open mind.
Not fer nuthin' but when I had my hip replaced, prior to being diagnosed, they used a spinal rather then general anasthesia. I did OK :-)
Kyle
Kyle
Aspento,
I do not know why the doc would not do an epidural on a MS patient. We have LPs, Baclofen pain pumps permanently in our spines. We also have epidurals for childbirth and other things. I have had 3 epidurals with MS with no permanent trouble.
Alex
I do not know why the doc would not do an epidural on a MS patient. We have LPs, Baclofen pain pumps permanently in our spines. We also have epidurals for childbirth and other things. I have had 3 epidurals with MS with no permanent trouble.
Alex
I had to have surgery last fall, and the anesthesiologist called me in for a preoperative consult. After hearing my history, he told me that although he usually prefers to do a spinal block, he would do a general anesthesia for me. He doesn't use epidurals for ms patients. I didn't ask why, but there must be some good reason for him to bring this up. (I'm not dxed, but my history was troubling for him and he chose to treat me as a PwMS to be safe).
Hi Kris -
I have to agree with JJ. The information you have given about MS is is simply wrong. If the source of this misinformation is the same as the source of your diagnosis I would seek a second opinion as soon as possible.
Kyle
I have to agree with JJ. The information you have given about MS is is simply wrong. If the source of this misinformation is the same as the source of your diagnosis I would seek a second opinion as soon as possible.
Kyle
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi and welcome to our little MS community,
To be honest Kris i'm not sure where to even begin, you've written a lot of inaccurate information about MS and you've been diagnosed with MS, which i personally find a bit concerning, I'm genuinely not trying to be disrespectful to you but your understanding of MS is unfortunately incorrect.
"There is two kinds of Ms the ones born with it is called juvenile 's which children are diagnosed at 6 months ,but then adults who are diagnosed with it is called late term Ms that is due to trauma of the spine like surgery,accidents or injury or epidurals from surgeries or birthing kids."
Paediatric MS is the correct term, i'm not sure where you got the idea that Paediatric MS kids "are diagnosed at 6 months" but it's not true. There is no such thing as "Late term MS", adults are diagnosed with Relapsing Remitting (RRMS), Secondary Progressive (SPMS), Primary-progressive (PPMS), Progressive-relapsing (PRMS). MS is an autoimmune disease, the exact cause of MS at this stage isn't yet known, so what you have listed as the cause of MS isn't something you could prove, spinal damage yes but not to have caused your MS....
I would highly recommend you seek the advice and support of a neurologist who specialises in MS!
Cheers.........JJ
To be honest Kris i'm not sure where to even begin, you've written a lot of inaccurate information about MS and you've been diagnosed with MS, which i personally find a bit concerning, I'm genuinely not trying to be disrespectful to you but your understanding of MS is unfortunately incorrect.
"There is two kinds of Ms the ones born with it is called juvenile 's which children are diagnosed at 6 months ,but then adults who are diagnosed with it is called late term Ms that is due to trauma of the spine like surgery,accidents or injury or epidurals from surgeries or birthing kids."
Paediatric MS is the correct term, i'm not sure where you got the idea that Paediatric MS kids "are diagnosed at 6 months" but it's not true. There is no such thing as "Late term MS", adults are diagnosed with Relapsing Remitting (RRMS), Secondary Progressive (SPMS), Primary-progressive (PPMS), Progressive-relapsing (PRMS). MS is an autoimmune disease, the exact cause of MS at this stage isn't yet known, so what you have listed as the cause of MS isn't something you could prove, spinal damage yes but not to have caused your MS....
I would highly recommend you seek the advice and support of a neurologist who specialises in MS!
Cheers.........JJ
In 2001 and 2003 I had two births I had epidurals.with both pregnancies I had complications prevail placenta and pre eclampsia.I had high blood pressure and diabetic symtomps.in 2010 I was complaining of weakness in the lower spine and my me g s going to sleep while walking and feet hurting . The family Dr did a spinal tap and a Mri. Found that there was a mass on my back not cancerous but it was there I explained I had two epidurals.
The family Dr said 1out of 68 women who have epidurals experience lower spinal problems in my condition enchanted to do surgery it could of been a 50/50 chance I would have scars and may never walk again. Paralysed from the surgery could be a possibility.The hospital staff when I had the epidural drip done never told me of the consequences of the epidural I am learning now that the side effects can be disabling.
My mother told me natural drug free birthing was the way cavemen did it for centuries I took the medical chicken way out to escape the pain.
Sure I was numb from the waste down when the kids were born.With one vaginal birth and one c-section I learned having epidurals can not oh be a friend but your enemy.
What I mean is sure it was easy to get it done. But the extending pain will linger for a life time. I. 2014 I was diagnosed with MS.I live a good healthy life but at times I do have slurred speech and weakness in both. Sides of the legs I do have a cane I use. My moments of weakness.
I am 36 . There is two kinds of Ms the ones born with it is called juvenile 's which children are diagnosed at 6 months ,but then adults who are diagnosed with it is called late term Ms that is due to trauma of the spine like surgery,accidents or injury or epidurals from surgeries or birthing kids.
Also if not properly cared for at the hospital.the failure on the hospital's staff to generally remove the wires could also cause damage.
Do to the experiences I faced with double locations of epidurals and reactions of the epidurals to mishaps in handling the uninstall process if wire removal of the epidural the scarring is permanent on physical on the skin like a s-section but on the spine any any ligaments associated with the spine.
Hospital's who cause reflected pain can beat fault But proofing the claims can be hard you have to under go multi tests provided the hospital to verify your actions you are claiming is true. In my case it was. So all story shortly aside think about your illness and get the tests needed like scans,Mri and spinal tap done the procedures are done in either three parts . I get pain shots every month along with medicaction for infections and pain.I also get spinal rape done as well when the Dr asks for the tests.
So it can be the problem.
The family Dr said 1out of 68 women who have epidurals experience lower spinal problems in my condition enchanted to do surgery it could of been a 50/50 chance I would have scars and may never walk again. Paralysed from the surgery could be a possibility.The hospital staff when I had the epidural drip done never told me of the consequences of the epidural I am learning now that the side effects can be disabling.
My mother told me natural drug free birthing was the way cavemen did it for centuries I took the medical chicken way out to escape the pain.
Sure I was numb from the waste down when the kids were born.With one vaginal birth and one c-section I learned having epidurals can not oh be a friend but your enemy.
What I mean is sure it was easy to get it done. But the extending pain will linger for a life time. I. 2014 I was diagnosed with MS.I live a good healthy life but at times I do have slurred speech and weakness in both. Sides of the legs I do have a cane I use. My moments of weakness.
I am 36 . There is two kinds of Ms the ones born with it is called juvenile 's which children are diagnosed at 6 months ,but then adults who are diagnosed with it is called late term Ms that is due to trauma of the spine like surgery,accidents or injury or epidurals from surgeries or birthing kids.
Also if not properly cared for at the hospital.the failure on the hospital's staff to generally remove the wires could also cause damage.
Do to the experiences I faced with double locations of epidurals and reactions of the epidurals to mishaps in handling the uninstall process if wire removal of the epidural the scarring is permanent on physical on the skin like a s-section but on the spine any any ligaments associated with the spine.
Hospital's who cause reflected pain can beat fault But proofing the claims can be hard you have to under go multi tests provided the hospital to verify your actions you are claiming is true. In my case it was. So all story shortly aside think about your illness and get the tests needed like scans,Mri and spinal tap done the procedures are done in either three parts . I get pain shots every month along with medicaction for infections and pain.I also get spinal rape done as well when the Dr asks for the tests.
So it can be the problem.
I regret the day I had an Epidural. Even the best of physicians can paralyse you. I am not paralysed but really messed up from an Epidural. I would look at other options.
Do you have MS or are the lesions from something else? If you are ever unsure about whether you can have an epidural or not you can ask your doctor or your hospitals anesthesiologist? They can let you know if it is safe. If you have MS epidurals are safe unless there are other reasons why you cannot have them. I had an epidural with my last one and will with this one, I have asked if it is okay even if I have MS or Fibro (these are what my doctor thinks I might have.)
Congratulations by the way. Do you know if it is a boy or a girl? When are you due? It is such an exciting time. I am very happy for you.
Tahiri
Congratulations by the way. Do you know if it is a boy or a girl? When are you due? It is such an exciting time. I am very happy for you.
Tahiri
I am 32 years old pregnant with my first child. 1 year ago they found a lesion on my spine between T5 & T6. I was wondering if there is any reason why I should not have an epidural?
I am not diagnosed, but MS is a possibility. I am currently pregnant. I have never heard anywhere that MS patients should not have an epidural. I do know that if you are on neurontin during pregnancy (which I was last time) you cannot have IV anesthetics. But you should be fine. Also if you do have MS it is very common for your symptoms to go away or lessen during pregnancy.
Tahiri
Tahiri
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