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** THYROID PROBLEMS?? LOOK AT WILSON'S SYNDROME

I have been dealing with a body temp averaging 96.6, weight gain (over 70 lbs) and cannot lose it, severe insomnia, and inability to sweat and so on for over 15 years.  I am now 53 years old.

I have been to doc after doc and they all wanted to put me on anti-depressants...all of them because my thyroid testing comes back "in-range".  Is all testing a "one size fits all"?

Anyway, I have spent years trying to find out what is wrong with me when no one else could.  I located Dr David Wilson aka Wilson's Syndrome.  There are not many docs trained to understand this disorder, but it is REAL!

Let me tell you I was freezing all of the time, sleeping with blankets year round, going to a DRY HEAT sauna at over 140+ degrees for 30 minutes several times weekly...not one drop of sweat!  I would go outdoors and living in the south we have some warm summers.  My skin would be very hot, yet no sweat.  At the most, a slight clammy feel, but this was rare.  Your body must sweat to release toxins, but mainly to cool itself down when overheated.

At one point my body temperature was down to 95.5.  Over 3 degrees below normal!   Again, no doc anywhere thought the low temp or sweating was an issue.  Vertigo also became a huge factor too.  Lying down is usually when it hit me.  A positional vertigo.

My face would turn bright red when outdoors in the heat, yet no sweat.  When I cried, same thing...bright red!  The insomnia so severe I was sleeping only 2-4 hrs nightly.  Then sometimes no sleep for days.  I do not drink caffeine.  After a few years of this, I told my hubby I felt like I was not going to live much longer as I was so weak.  I took out life insurance at that point as well.  The insomnia is critical cause you must have sleep nightly so you can build your cortisol levels back up...cortisol is critical in a human.  You need deep REM sleep.

I was put on biodenticals, hydrocortisone, Synthroid, Armour over the years.  None of this worked.  There is a problem with converting T3.  Taking these for many people will not work, because many will try to to deal with the T4 part of thyroid problems only.  Again, they do not understand fully T3 or Wilson's Syndrome.

Other symptoms...low BP, low pulse and respiration. So tired by noon to 3pm I had to lay down.  I quit my job as a healthcare professional because I was so tired and weak.  After I ate anything, I felt very sick. Started having pain in my legs due to lymphatic fluid not being able to move...again from not being able to sweat

Well, a doctor that believes and was trained in Wilsons, gave me T3.  Within DAYS my temp was back up to 98.6, I was sleeping and more than anything...I was sweating!!!  I mean it was wonderful!  This changed my life!

Please look at this as the general medical community does not acknowledge Wilson's.  There was also testing done on horses for anhidrosis that could not sweat as well.  They were put on iodine and showed significant improvement.  

There is something to this and why doctors cannot comprehend this, I will never understand.  They only deem you depressed and want to give you pills so you go away and die quietly.  Sorry, I refuse to be anyone's guinea pig anymore!  Plus, how can a doc assess you as depressed in 3 minutes when they know NOTHING about you?  They cannot, so do not let them!  After over 12 docs in the last several years, I found an answer.

Again, look at the Wilson's Syndrome site and find a doctor that has been trained to treat this.  T3 is a hormone and you want to not play around with this at all.

God bless
Pat
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649848 tn?1534633700
COMMUNITY LEADER
That's an interesting post.  Do you have links to any of the studies being done, so we can look at them?  I've heard of several of the hormones you listed, though I'm not real "up" on any of them.. I do know that ghrelin is the "hunger" hormone and leptin is the one that tells us we're full, and I've heard that some people can be resistant to leptin.  

WE (on this forum) have been saying for ages, that some people don't convert T4 to T3 properly - I happen to be one of those and I had a heck of a time with the pcp who diagnosed me because HE insisted that Synthroid was all I needed for medication and that TSH was the ONLY test that needed to done in order to treat my hypothyroidism. He also told me that the only problem with my weight was that I "need to MOVE more", when I exercised daily and have a very physical job and never had a weight problem before.  

It's not us patients whom you have to convince about some of these things -- it's the doctors who treat us. Too many of them have the "Immaculate TSH belief", and nearly all of them believe that if labs are "in range", that's good enough, even though the patient still feels like cr@p.   Fortunately, *I* had an ENT who realized my pcp wasn't treating me properly, so he sent me to an endo, who not only tests TSH, FT3 and FT4 *every* time we do blood work, he's willing to prescribe T3 medication, along with the T4 (I'm on the new Tirosint) AND he's willing to listen to my symptoms and try to help alleviate them.  

There aren't enough doctors out there who are willing to treat symptoms; they want to treat labs.  

We very rarely completely rule out possibilities, but when there's science that contradicts something, as in the original subject of this thread .......  

If you have some links to these studies, it would be great to see them.  In addition, it would be nice to know where to find doctors willing to look into these things; most won't because insurance companies don't pay for things like that, or the doctor "assumes" that if the patient has a weight problem, it's the patient's own fault (i.e they eat too much or don't exercise enough).
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi guys,
I'm not going to get into symantics, but would like to discuss some recent studies.  There's a lot th medical community is still learning about metabolism.  I'm a doctor admitting we don't know it all yet.  It turns out that fat cells secrete a ton of hormones and inflammatory markers.  I think that over the next ten years as we learn more about these hormones, we'll realize thar hypothyroidism is actual a grouping of diseases rather than one single disease.  

Literally, hypothyroidism could be as many a 100 different diseases.

After we discover each hormone, then we have to research where it comes from, what it binds to, what triggers it and how it relates to thyroid hormones.  Leptin, a recently discovered hormone of fat, has been found to be inversely proportional to the enzyme needed to convert T4 to T3 in tissue and proportional to it in the brain.  Some people are now being found to be leptin insenstive.  Some people have abnormalities of the receptor for leptin.  These are people we used to diagnose as hypothyroid, yet our understanding of leptin is still very young.  

Here are some of the hormones we've discovered in the last 5-10 years that relate to metabolism...

Adinopectin
Leptin
orexin
resistin
neuropeptide y
gherlin
cholecystekinin cck (more roles than we thought)
gut bacteria play more of a role than we knew (just started to figure that out in 2006)
resistin
il-6, tbf (secreted by fat cells)

recently discovered the brain centers for hunger:
in ventredial hypothalamus
orexigenix and anorexogenic centers

The first article mapping sleep centers as they affect hunger and metabolic hormones was published this year.

We're roughly ten years away from the answers.  Hold your criticism of each other and don't be too absolute.  Your all struggling with a frustrating problem that is poorly understood and may be different for each of you.  In fact, I recently presented a lecture to doctors who graduated from med school 2 years ago.  Most of them only knew about 2 of the hormones I mentioned.  I'm surprised anybody can rule in or out the possibility that a subset of hypothyroid patients may not convert T4 to T3 properly.  It looks like the rat and cat studies published this year suggest otherwise.
Helpful - 0
1611319 tn?1378618399
I will being praying for your brother-in-law, sister and for you.  I am very sorry that you are having to go thru this.  I know you must be such a help to them at this time.  

It sounds like you were very cautious before you approached your treatment. And although you do not need anyone's approval, I commend you for that.  I think that is all the forum members are advocating here also. Everyone, including you, are concerned for the health of each other. That is the only reason why we post.  To extend experiences and brainstorm together the issues of the thyroid.  This is why we list as much information as we can, for others that may not have the same accesses (because of dial-up, being so slow, many quit trying to look) so they too can make some informed decisions.  You are posting the information that you have and some of us are posting information that we have obtained.  I know that you being in the health field understands that. That is why i would assume you did so much research.  Many  do not have the means or abilities to go to the labs and do the research like you did.

I do not remember are you still on the Cytomel?  If not, how long where you on it? In regards to your visit to the lab, Can you explain about T3 compounding?  I am interested in learning this.

Again, I hope the best for the health of your brother-in-law.        In  Faith,  -sass-




Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I am sorry to hear of your health problems. I hope you can get the answers and treatment you need to have your health restored.

I am out of town visiting my sis and her husband who is very ill. We fear CA, so I am here to help drive them since we have to go to a large city for all of his medical appts as no one else can see him locally.  They live in a very rural area, so I am on dial-up Internet if that tells you how rural this place is!  Too, they being in their 70's, I can help around the house.  

**  First of all, I want to say that I am not advising or instructing you medically.   To do so especially since you are under the care of a doctor, some would consider practicing medicine.

However, I will be glad to share with you my story...

With that, I had been seeing doctors who were treating me for hypothyroidism.  I had extremely low cortisol levels and then came the peri-menopause problems as well.  I see we are about the same age, so I do not if you are dealing with those problems, but it has been the most horrible times of my life healthwise.  Since I have seen so many doctors, I will tell you of the last two and the treatments.

The doctor prior to the WTS MD, had me on bio-identicals, Cortef (low then high dose), Synthroid..then changed it to Armour.  After a few weeks of this, I was so sick and weak I could only walk a short distance and have to sit on the floor or the ground.  I felt like the next breath I took would be my last one.  My body temp had dropped to 95.5 and I was freezing.  Thank God I decided to stop this!  My husband who also was being treated for hypothyroid issues, was given in addition to bio-identicals and Armour..DHEA.  Three weeks later we were in the ER cause he thought he was having a heart attack.  The doctors there felt it was the DHEA causing the problem.

So we like you have been down a long road of hits and misses...more misses than anything else.  

Before I sought out the WTS MD, I made major lifestyle changes.  I stopped eating any food with nitrates or hormones.  Basically, I went organic.  I had a water filtration system installed at home to get the dissolved solids, flouride and chlorine out.  I switched my detergents to ones made from plants...no chemicals.  Had all of my metal fillings removed.  I sought our homeopathists, acupuncturists for help.  Had colonics and chelation for several weeks to also help reduce the toxins in my body and see if I could get some balance in my digestive system after so many meds previously.  While I did get some relief, I was not "well".  I was however better than when I was on the protocol the doctor I mentioned had place me on...it just had not worked for me.

I saw an MD that I was referred to by my Chiropractor.  His wife had seen him and this MD was supposed to be in Wellness care or as some would consider...alternative.  So all serum, urine, fecal and saliva (for the for time) tests were ordered.  The docs I had seen before did not find them (saliva) as accurate, so none were ever ordered.  

This particular doctor spent 1.5 hours with myself and my husband after labs came back. I was very low on several things such as Cortisol (am) (evening), Progesterone.  Thyroid was low, but since I am not home, I cannot provide those results.  Will be glad to provide them for you when I return.  I do recall Cortisol (am) was around 1.9.

It was there WTS was explained to me at length.  I came prepared as I had all of the articles written on Dr Wilson I could find.  I was fearful after the incident with Dr. Wilson in 1988, then too his license was revoked (for 6 months)

I was not going to let anyone ever again put me on meds and get to the point I was at with the previous doctors.  Too, I was so concerned about taking another Rx, I was going to make sure I absolutely knew what I was getting into.  Hormones are nothing to play around with.  


The main things that I "considered" with WTS:


2.  The dosage for Cytomel started at 7.5 mcg.  

3.  The Cytomel was compounded.  .

4.  The length of time to take Cytomel was not extensive.

5.  The fact my body temp (95.5/3.3 degrees below 98.6) was continuing to drop and no one before was concerned I was sub-normal or even able to perspire as I stated before.  

After 15+ yrs of being sick, this was something I thought was important.  I also had started having severe vertigo with Nystagmus and was progressively worsening.  I was hospitalized for that when I was being tested for the vertigo to rule out Meniere's, went into a vertigo episode and could not recover from it.  I was hospitalized immediately for three days. I was never given an origin of he vertigo, yet they ruled out Meniere's.

6.  The sudden weight gain and the inability to lose that weight. 70 lbs, as well as the typical symptoms found with hypothyroid and adrenal too.


Still, I was NOT on board with WTS.  I contacted the lab used for the T3 compounding.  My husband and I drove there to meet the staff and obtain further info.  We had many questions and wanted to get as much information as possible.  I had never been Rx Cytomel before and wanted to make sure I knew everything there is to know before another drug before it went into my body.


Still, I was NOT on board with WTS.  I started looking into various medical forums, libraries and writing to many people to get information from them. Finally, after 4-5 months from my initial visit and much research, I decided to go back to my doctor.

Since it had been so long since I had seen my last doctor, new labs were ordered to get my current levels and two weeks of taking temps and charting them.  I had a followup visit with my doctor to discuss things.  My levels had changed, so I was not getting better.  Now, my liver enzymes were elevated.  Too, I was having more edema than before in my extrmeities. No ability to perspire, severe insomnia and weakness.

It was then I decided to proceed with the WTS protocol.

I already gave my story and results.  As I will tell everyone, what worked for me most certainly may not work for you.  Your condition differs from mine greatly.  I am only several months out, but I think the lifestyle changes I made, espcially diet have helped more than anything.  I thought this was a good place to share my experience, sadly I was mistaken.  If it helped you, then I am happy.

I will be out of pocket for the next few weeks.  My husband is taking the laptop back with him when he leaves in a few hours, so I will not have a computer to use.  Pending what happens with my brother-in-law, I may be here longer that first expected.

You are in my prayers and I know God will help you.  Do not lose faith in Him.
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Avatar universal
It will be very interesting to see results of your new bloodwork next week.  In the interim, would you please post your latest test results and reference ranges for TSH, free T3, free T4, Vitamin D, B12, etc?
Helpful - 0
1376367 tn?1319226427
I too have been dealing with Thyroid issues for quite a while and have just recently gone to see a doctor in the States, Bellevue Wa. about my Fibro and Fatigue.  I think my issues have gone past the Thyroid only problem and affected my cells.  This doctor in WA. is doing a Reverse T3 and I will be hearing from him next week about my blood work.  I too have been told by this doctor about Wilson's Syndrome and have been on Synthroid and Cytomel and had to stop this treatment cause it stopped working for me.  I was experiencing side effects from the Cytomel medication, such as chest pains and breathing difficulty.  When I stopped the medication, the side effects also subsided, however the problem was not resolved as I am currently taking simply Synthroid T4 meds at a higher dose and find that I am not good with that alone.  I anxious to know what the blood work will show that I had done at the Fibro and Fatigue Center.  I live in Victoria, B.C. Canada and travelled over to the States to find help as I could get nowhere with this medical profession here.  I had spent over a year and half trying to get help and like you they were constantly pushing the antidepressants and also saying that I was possibly bi-polar.  Seeing Dr. Vereen in Bellevue, he has shed a new light on this complex issue and I am currently taking energy injections to help rebuild the mitochondria cells that are causing me the muscle pain and fatigue.  Should Wilson's Syndrome be part of my problem, it will help to clear up a lot of my problems, I'm sure, but I'll have to wait till March 15, 2011.  I have an appt. with this doctor to go over the blood results and what the next step for me will be.  I'm glad I came across someone who also has been dealing with this strange problem.  The injections that I take also help with the liver as the liver is not able to convert the T4 into T3.  If you have anything that would be of help to me, I would love to know.  Thanks for sharing your experience.  I've come across a lot of negativity surrounding
this issue of reverse T3 and Wilson's Syndrome.  
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