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Dealing with anxiety
my 20 year old son was recently hospitalized with hypothyroidism. His TSH level was 379 and he experienced a kind of psychotic episode. He is home now. he's experiencing a lot of anxiety. Takes a xanax once a day. he can't seem to fall asleep before 4 a.m. Its been about 2 weeks since his episode. i'm wondering if anyone can relate to any of this and when we can expect him to feel better.
yes i considered that. but then when i took it at night and it literally shocked me out of my sleep, i realized it wasn't a phobia. Then when i met other with the same unexplainable issue i realized i wasn't alone.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Have you ever considered that you might have a phobia/obsession about thyroid med?
IM not on armour anymore. 2 weeks ago i switched to t4/t3 and i was still getting the shock sensation. So then they took the t3 out and now i am on day 1 of t4 only. Its a compound of t4, zinc and selenium.
I can tell you as the day is long, I can set my watch by this.
I take my hormone and 4 to 5 hours later I get this extreme physical fatigue, my ears ring, i get very anxious and irritable and then about an hour later it passes. It doesn't matter if i take the medicine at 5,6,7 am or midnight. 4-5 hours later I get this.
I can tell you as the day is long, I can set my watch by this.
I take my hormone and 4 to 5 hours later I get this extreme physical fatigue, my ears ring, i get very anxious and irritable and then about an hour later it passes. It doesn't matter if i take the medicine at 5,6,7 am or midnight. 4-5 hours later I get this.
COMMUNITY LEADER
T4 takes time to build in your system and is not used directly, by the cells - it has to be converted to T3, so it won't "shock" you when it hits, because it doesn't "hit" until it's been converted to T3.
If you're still on the desiccated, it's the T3, which would peak at around 4-6 hrs after taking it, that's "shocking" you and as I've said before - desiccated hormone may not be best for you.
If you're still on the desiccated, it's the T3, which would peak at around 4-6 hrs after taking it, that's "shocking" you and as I've said before - desiccated hormone may not be best for you.
I get these horrible waves of anxiety every day about 4 hours after i take my thyroid. My theory is that my levels are not where they need to be so the t4 shocks me when it hits my system. I decided yesterday that exactly 4 hours after i take my hormone i will be taking a klonopin. While this drug may be addicting, I have no reason to get off of it. Inhibiters did not work for me, I tried taking them for about 5 days (whatever the latest one on the market was) and i just got horrid nausea.
the xanex did give me really bad motion sickness and i made a terrible mistake by taking it one time before i got on a boat on vacation. One of the worst decisions I've ever made.
I like the wafers from clonopin. It hits my system fast, and its not very strong. I notice a small difference, but its very slight. I don't feel overwhelmed with tiredness. Its almost like it just takes the edge off a tiny bit. But I'm taking a small dose of .05 and i think it may go up to .25. My dr. told me to just take one the second i wake up, but i try to hold off til i really need it. In fact, I'm going to take one now :)
the xanex did give me really bad motion sickness and i made a terrible mistake by taking it one time before i got on a boat on vacation. One of the worst decisions I've ever made.
I like the wafers from clonopin. It hits my system fast, and its not very strong. I notice a small difference, but its very slight. I don't feel overwhelmed with tiredness. Its almost like it just takes the edge off a tiny bit. But I'm taking a small dose of .05 and i think it may go up to .25. My dr. told me to just take one the second i wake up, but i try to hold off til i really need it. In fact, I'm going to take one now :)
I would speak to the psychiatrist to determine whether he needs to take anything other than xanax. I am on zoloft and that works fine for me. I only take xanax when i am having a really bad panic attack.
It's hard when you're in the moment because anxiety and panic attacks don't make sense to our "logical" mind. You can sometimes feel like a prisoner of your mind. However, what he needs to know is that this is not something that his mind is able to control. When there's something going haywire biochemically the anxiety is not a choice (in this situation) and is very hard to control. It's probably his thyroid or his body adjusting to the thyroid meds.
Does he understand that it's not in his head? He's physically reacting to hormones, even though it's presenting as psychological.
I understand him feeling like it's a weakness to take it but if his anxiety gets bad enough, e.g., hyperventilating, etc., he'll take it.
I hope things get better for him and your family over the coming days and weeks. Keep us posted.
Does he understand that it's not in his head? He's physically reacting to hormones, even though it's presenting as psychological.
I understand him feeling like it's a weakness to take it but if his anxiety gets bad enough, e.g., hyperventilating, etc., he'll take it.
I hope things get better for him and your family over the coming days and weeks. Keep us posted.
I think "alone, confused, and embarrassed" pretty much describes how my son is feeling. We have a big family and lots of friends, and he doesn't want anyone here. I have messaged his closest friends so thye know he is not just being cold if he is ignoring them. they are very concerned and supportive.
The Dr. says he can take the xanax every 8 hours, but Nick seems to see it as a sign of weakness or something. Anyway, rough times here. Thank you for the words of support.
The Dr. says he can take the xanax every 8 hours, but Nick seems to see it as a sign of weakness or something. Anyway, rough times here. Thank you for the words of support.
You could always call the Dr and see if you can up the Xanax to twice a day? Once a day is a pretty minimal dose and might not be enough to keep the edge off.
Like Goolarra and Bruce said, you may also consider seeing if he can be switched to something else or Klonopin. Klonopin seems to to be more calming for whatever reason (then again maybe not for everyone but most people I know that have tried both prefer Klonopin). It also has a lot longer half life so the effect is felt for an extended amount of time, compared to Xanax or Valium. That's why I'm not sure if once a day of Xanax is enough right now to do the trick.
I don't feel drugged when I take it. If it's truly anxiety or panic then Klonopin should just make you feel back to normal and a little sleepy sometimes.
I know it's hard for him to be patient. I really feel for him. We have all been there. I was 21 when I started dealing with this and now 37. I was super hyper thyroid when I was finally diagnosed and I know how bad the anxiety can be. My friends at the time thought I was hiding a cocaine addiction I would shake so uncontrollably all the time....LOL. They actually confronted me and of course at the time I had no idea what was happening to me or my body. I felt so alone, confused, and embarrassed about why my body/mind was freaking out.
Anyhow, he's lucky he has a mom that's getting informed and advocating for him.
Like Goolarra and Bruce said, you may also consider seeing if he can be switched to something else or Klonopin. Klonopin seems to to be more calming for whatever reason (then again maybe not for everyone but most people I know that have tried both prefer Klonopin). It also has a lot longer half life so the effect is felt for an extended amount of time, compared to Xanax or Valium. That's why I'm not sure if once a day of Xanax is enough right now to do the trick.
I don't feel drugged when I take it. If it's truly anxiety or panic then Klonopin should just make you feel back to normal and a little sleepy sometimes.
I know it's hard for him to be patient. I really feel for him. We have all been there. I was 21 when I started dealing with this and now 37. I was super hyper thyroid when I was finally diagnosed and I know how bad the anxiety can be. My friends at the time thought I was hiding a cocaine addiction I would shake so uncontrollably all the time....LOL. They actually confronted me and of course at the time I had no idea what was happening to me or my body. I felt so alone, confused, and embarrassed about why my body/mind was freaking out.
Anyhow, he's lucky he has a mom that's getting informed and advocating for him.
It's hard for all of us to be patient, especially when we feel like crap. That's a pretty good schedule for re-testing. If there are no more meds changes in the interim, he could push to go in as early as the 2nd of July. Levels won't have stabilized completely, but they will have for the most part.
I agree that he should do whatever his doctor suggests at this point to keep him comfortable. However, if it doesn't seem to be working after a while longer, don't hesitate to contact his doctor to see if there's an alternative to Xanax. Some things work better than others for some of us.
I agree that he should do whatever his doctor suggests at this point to keep him comfortable. However, if it doesn't seem to be working after a while longer, don't hesitate to contact his doctor to see if there's an alternative to Xanax. Some things work better than others for some of us.
this is all very helpful. His next bloodwork is July 9th. I'll keep a journal to see how its going. right now he is still pretty anxious and depressed. he can't seem to imagine getting better. he just came out of his room and asked if he can shave his head. it's hard for a 20 year old man to be patient.
I didn't see Bruce's post until after I posted. I also take Klonopin as needed. Usually only once a month, sometimes a little more or less depending.
The difference between Klonopin and Xanax (both are Benzo's) is that Klonopin is also an anti-seizue (anti-convulsant) medication. Therefore, once it's started and taken daily it CANNOT be discontinued without weaning. Xanax shouldn't be but Klonopin can't be abruptly stopped or it most likely will cause seizures, even without any history of seizures.
Klonopin is fine only if it's not taken often -OR- only if it's taken daily. If that makes sense.... Meaning, can't take for 3 weeks (or a period of time) and then just stopped.
For the record I made a typo on the above post.... It's the GABA receptor, not GABBA.
The difference between Klonopin and Xanax (both are Benzo's) is that Klonopin is also an anti-seizue (anti-convulsant) medication. Therefore, once it's started and taken daily it CANNOT be discontinued without weaning. Xanax shouldn't be but Klonopin can't be abruptly stopped or it most likely will cause seizures, even without any history of seizures.
Klonopin is fine only if it's not taken often -OR- only if it's taken daily. If that makes sense.... Meaning, can't take for 3 weeks (or a period of time) and then just stopped.
For the record I made a typo on the above post.... It's the GABA receptor, not GABBA.
Your son's TPOab is elevated at 169 with a reference range of <35. That indicates that he has Hashi's. Hashi's is an autoimmune disease and the most prevalent cause of hypo in the developed world. I have it, too. What this means is that his immune system sees his thyroid as "foreign protein" and attacks it. It will continue to attack until no thyroid function is left.
His FT3 and FT4 are both below range. I'm sure he feels miserable.
When can he expect to feel better? That's a tough question. Thyroid treatment tries our patience, since it takes meds 4-6 weeks to reach their full potential in your blood. So, we have to adjust dosage, wait 4-5 weeks, re-test, re-evaluate symptoms...until we get it right. However, there is no way to hurry the process. Along the way, there should be increasing good days compared to bad days.
Be sure to ask for copies of all thyroid labs and keep his history for yourself. If you jot down meds and symptoms immediately prior to the blood draw, you will gain very valuable information on what levels he feels best at.
It takes time and patience. Your son's TSH was extremely high, and his FT3 and FT4 are very low. When we've been hypo for quite some time, the rest of the endocrine system tends to compensate. Once on meds, everything has to rebalance.
When is he scheduled for his next blood work?
I have no personal experience with anxiety or Xanax. Bruce and blsnsvvd have chimed in with theirs. We're all different, so what works for one doesn't for the other. It's a journey...best of luck along the way.
Also, bear in mind that FT4 levels often have to be in the middle of the range, and FT3 levels in the upper half before symptoms are relieved. Just being "in range" (the lower half of the ranges) isn't enough.
His FT3 and FT4 are both below range. I'm sure he feels miserable.
When can he expect to feel better? That's a tough question. Thyroid treatment tries our patience, since it takes meds 4-6 weeks to reach their full potential in your blood. So, we have to adjust dosage, wait 4-5 weeks, re-test, re-evaluate symptoms...until we get it right. However, there is no way to hurry the process. Along the way, there should be increasing good days compared to bad days.
Be sure to ask for copies of all thyroid labs and keep his history for yourself. If you jot down meds and symptoms immediately prior to the blood draw, you will gain very valuable information on what levels he feels best at.
It takes time and patience. Your son's TSH was extremely high, and his FT3 and FT4 are very low. When we've been hypo for quite some time, the rest of the endocrine system tends to compensate. Once on meds, everything has to rebalance.
When is he scheduled for his next blood work?
I have no personal experience with anxiety or Xanax. Bruce and blsnsvvd have chimed in with theirs. We're all different, so what works for one doesn't for the other. It's a journey...best of luck along the way.
Also, bear in mind that FT4 levels often have to be in the middle of the range, and FT3 levels in the upper half before symptoms are relieved. Just being "in range" (the lower half of the ranges) isn't enough.
Unless I'm totally misinformed Xanax taken at night should help him relax and sleep. Isn't it a Benzodiazepine (like Klonopin and Valium type drug)? If so, Benzo's work on the Gabba receptors (same receptors as alcohol). Once the Xanax fills the Gabba receptor it should calm him down.
As a side note, if he takes it continuously over a long period of time you may need to wean him off it at some point, as he can suffer from withdrawals if it's discontinued abruptly. Like any drug, withdrawals always heighten whatever the medication was helping with or masking. So if Xanax is stopped without weaning then he could suffer even more severe anxiety and possibly sleeplessness.
For right now though I'd just give it to him as needed (whatever the Dr instructed). It's more important at this stage of the game to ensure he is comfortable and doesn't feel like he's losing his mind or out of control. I assume it was pretty serious since he was hospitalized and had a psychotic episode.
I don't know if you've ever suffered anxiety yourself but in my experience, anxiety feels like I'm jittery, rapid heartbeat, shaky, lightheaded, dizzy, and nauseous. Panic attacks feel almost the same to me but the major difference is it feels like you are dying....like I'm suffocating to death or can't breath (some people say it feels like you're having a heart attack, but much more than anxiety would feel like). The panic attacks come out of nowhere and hit hard, whereas anxiety comes on gradually and builds up from whatever stress or situation induces it. Just my experience.
Sorry your son is going through this and hopefully the thyroid meds will get him stabilized over the next month(s) and he can get off the Xanax later.
As a side note, if he takes it continuously over a long period of time you may need to wean him off it at some point, as he can suffer from withdrawals if it's discontinued abruptly. Like any drug, withdrawals always heighten whatever the medication was helping with or masking. So if Xanax is stopped without weaning then he could suffer even more severe anxiety and possibly sleeplessness.
For right now though I'd just give it to him as needed (whatever the Dr instructed). It's more important at this stage of the game to ensure he is comfortable and doesn't feel like he's losing his mind or out of control. I assume it was pretty serious since he was hospitalized and had a psychotic episode.
I don't know if you've ever suffered anxiety yourself but in my experience, anxiety feels like I'm jittery, rapid heartbeat, shaky, lightheaded, dizzy, and nauseous. Panic attacks feel almost the same to me but the major difference is it feels like you are dying....like I'm suffocating to death or can't breath (some people say it feels like you're having a heart attack, but much more than anxiety would feel like). The panic attacks come out of nowhere and hit hard, whereas anxiety comes on gradually and builds up from whatever stress or situation induces it. Just my experience.
Sorry your son is going through this and hopefully the thyroid meds will get him stabilized over the next month(s) and he can get off the Xanax later.
I have the same thing still. I personally do not like xanex, i prefer clonzepam and i also take ambien to help me sleep. It will get better over time. I recently had a sleep study done that showed I woke up like 22 times. It was all attributed to the thyroid disease. I was told to take 1 5 mg clonzepam about 6 pm, another at 9 pm and then my ambien when i go to bed.
the xanex for me caused a mild nausea and a rocking sensation plus try mouth. Its hard to explain but it sort of intensified what i was already feeling from the bad thyroid. The clonzepam (or klonopin) is more gentle and just makes you feel a little relaxed like you had a small glass of wine.
Of course this is my experience and others may disagree. Also they make the clonzepam in wafers that you just put under your tongue and it dissolves quickly. IN fact, I'm going to go get one now :)
the xanex for me caused a mild nausea and a rocking sensation plus try mouth. Its hard to explain but it sort of intensified what i was already feeling from the bad thyroid. The clonzepam (or klonopin) is more gentle and just makes you feel a little relaxed like you had a small glass of wine.
Of course this is my experience and others may disagree. Also they make the clonzepam in wafers that you just put under your tongue and it dissolves quickly. IN fact, I'm going to go get one now :)
free T4 0.33 (0.62-1.61
T3 total 74.5 (70-190)
anti thyroglobulin <2 (<20)
thyroid peroxidase ab 169 (<35)
T3 free 2.0 (2.3-4.2)
so taking xanax at night will cause sleep problems? he seems to get anxiety attacks around 9pm or so.
T3 total 74.5 (70-190)
anti thyroglobulin <2 (<20)
thyroid peroxidase ab 169 (<35)
T3 free 2.0 (2.3-4.2)
so taking xanax at night will cause sleep problems? he seems to get anxiety attacks around 9pm or so.
I agree with blsdnsvvd...anxiety is a symptom of hypo. It can also take some time to get used to having thyroid hormones available again. The whole endocrine system has to rebalance.
What are the reference ranges for his TT3 and FT4? Ranges vary lab to lab, so you have to post them with results. A really good way to do that is to report "test, result (range), e.g.
FT4 0.33 (0.8-1.8)
Total T3 is considered an obsolete test. FREE T3 is much more useful. You should request that next time.
Antibody tests are:
thyroid peroxidase antibody (TPOab), sometimes called "microsomal" on lab reports
thyroglogulin antibodies (TGab)
thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin (TSI)
What are the reference ranges for his TT3 and FT4? Ranges vary lab to lab, so you have to post them with results. A really good way to do that is to report "test, result (range), e.g.
FT4 0.33 (0.8-1.8)
Total T3 is considered an obsolete test. FREE T3 is much more useful. You should request that next time.
Antibody tests are:
thyroid peroxidase antibody (TPOab), sometimes called "microsomal" on lab reports
thyroglogulin antibodies (TGab)
thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin (TSI)
The anxiety is definitely caused by his hypo condition. It will take weeks before you will know if the med's are at the right dosage for him. As far as the panic attacks, xanax should help them however he may also need a therapist. Is he taking xanax at night also??? If so, this could be the reason that he is unable to sleep.
He's taking 137mg of synthroid. got 100 mg a day in hospital, starting 2 weeks ago, was upped to 137 3 days ago.on 5/25 his TSH was 193.5. Free t4 was 0.33 and t3 total was 74.5. I'm trying to find a thyroid antibody number. is there an abbreviation?
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