Help changing from T4 Levothyroxine to Naturethroid

[DVS1956]

I'm wondering if I could get to advice as to how much Naturthroid to start verses my Levothyroxine.

I have looked up the conversion from Naturthroid's website, but everyone says to go slow.

I just had blood work done last Thursday (2-28-13). I haven't gotten the lab report yet, but hoping I will from my doctor's office today.

I know I'm probably asking to soon before you have my new labs, but I am wanting to get some good advice .

As of January 10, 2013, I had to titrate up from around 87 to 100 mcg. due to my labs done on that date.  After about 4 weeks of taking the new dose I felt very hyper and requested  to have labs done 2-28-13 (doctor wanted me to wait until 3-13-13, but I couldn't. I knew/know something is very wrong inside me right now.

I am a bit of a wreck and after talking to a friend who takes Naturthroid, she suggested I take it rather than T4 only. She believes I have RT3 going on and says going on NTH will do me better, but I don't want to start to high on this combo T med.

By the way, these are the Lab reports I am waiting on from my doctor's office: TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3. In addition, the doctor also ordered, which is really a waste of money and is redundant, the TSH reflex to abnormal FT4 (which it means, if the TSH is abnormal, test the FT4)! Sheesh, we were already testing the FT4 and TSH.

My prior Labs were taken on 1-10-13 - 9 am at LabCorp (87 1/2 mcg) Doing the 75/100 every other day to average this amount (I only use 50 mcg tabs due to dyes):

CBC With Differential/ Platelet

WBC 8.5 4.0-10.5 x10E3/uL
RBC 5.22 3.77-5.28 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 15.0 11.1-15.9 g/dL
Hematocrit 46.1 34.0-46.6 %
MCV 88 79-97 fL
MCH 28.7 26.6-33.0 pg
MCHC 32.5 31.5-35.7 g/dL
RDW 13.6 12.3-15.4 %
Platelets 371 140-415 x10E3/uL
Neutrophils 62 40-74 %
Lymphs 31 14-46 %
Monocytes 6 4-13 %
Eos 0 0-7 %
Basos 1 0-3 %
Neutrophils (Absolute) 5.4 1.8-7.8 x10E3/uL
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.6 0.7-4.5 x10E3/uL
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 0.1-1.0 x10E3/uL
Eos (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL
Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 %
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL

Glucose, Serum 93 65-99 mg/dL
BUN 14 6-24 mg/dL
Creatinine,Serum 0.89 0.57-1.00 mg/dL
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 73 >59 mL/min/1.73
eGFR If Africn Am 84 >59 mL/min/1.73
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 16 9-23
Sodium, Serum 140 134-144 mmol/L
Potassium, Serum 4.6 3.5-5.2 mmol/L
Chloride, Serum 100 97-108 mmol/L
Carbon Dioxide, Total 23 20-32 mmol/L
Calcium, Serum 10.3 (H) 8.7-10.2 mg/dL
Protein, Total, Serum 7.4 6.0-8.5 g/dL
Albumin, Serum 4.8 3.5-5.5 g/dL
Globulin, Total 2.6 1.5-4.5 g/dL
A/G Ratio 1.8 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin, Total 0.7 0.0-1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 91 25-150 IU/L
AST (SGOT) 21 0-40 IU/L
ALT (SGPT) 25 0-32 IU/L
(I cut back on Calcium to only 1 pill daily instead of 3 - Doc was worried about me possibly getting kidney stones etc.)

Other tests taken:

TSH 8.220 (H) 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
T4,Free(Direct) 1.35 0.82-1.77 ng/dL
FT3  2.6 2.0-4.4 pg/mL

Vitamin B12 1221 (H) 211-946 pg/mL
(I've heard this is okay being this high from research)

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 67.8 30.0-100.0 ng/mL
(I increased an addt'l 2k IU)

Iron Bind.Cap. (TIBC) 353 250-450 ug/dL
UIBC 210 150-375 ug/dL
Iron, Serum 143 35-155 ug/dL
Iron Saturation 41 15-55 %

Ferritin, Serum 54 13-150 ng/mL (could be a lot better, but haven't done iron yet)

Cholesterol, Total 291 (H) 100-199 mg/dL
Triglycerides 105 0-149 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 81 >39 mg/dL
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 21 5-40 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol Calc 189 0-99 mg/dL
(This is the highest it's ever been in my life. I will not take Statins...period)

Of course, once I have my new labs as stated above, maybe someone can help me know where to start with NTH. My doctor will allow most likely, but she may not know how much I should start and how soon to titrate. I don't want to be more of wreck than I already am and have been for the past month!

Thanks so much and hope someone with good knowledge can help me figure this out before my next doctor's appt, which I can get sooner than 3-15-13 (of course, I'm sure it will be based on my new labs of 2-28-13)

Debi

[LazyMoose]

Note: for most people natural T3 in dessicated has less of a potent feeling than synthetic T3.

The idea of starting low with any dessicated is due to the T3.

Still some prefer to split their daily dose 2X per day, if fatigue is a big issue with your hypothyroid, this might help.

Nature Throid doesn't get specific, but will answer the phone and even call you back (that was three yrs ago though).

Armour gets specific on the PDF, but doesn't answer the phone.

Ive used both above and three other dessicated brands in the past + a short time of cytomel before dessicated.

[LazyMoose]

Your multiple meds is a little confusing for your body.

Many people get impatient when changing med, since it often makes you feel worse for a week or few. Then they assume it wasn't working. The key is patients, even if you dont feel well. I have changed many times in the past due to availability and a couple of generic dessicated meds that got their doors closed by the FDA.

When changing to dessicated (once again per the PDF on the Armour website) start lower that your full daily dose. If you dont, you might feel hyper in a week as the T3 takes time to get used to.

Some people once on a dessicated a while do add small amounts of synthetic T4 to get the t4 higher. Dessicated naturally has lower t4 than T3 (its how pigs are).

Chewing it with some people can bump up the low T4 a little (a good thing). T3 levels are the same if a dessicated is taken orally or sublingually since it is not effected by food it the stomach like aT4 is. NP throid brand and Erfa thyroid brand can be dissolved sublingually without chewing. NT and Armour are harder to dissolve, so chewing is needed to make taking sublingual effective.

[Barb135]

You should only ever make one change at a time, or you have no way of knowing which change is making the difference.

What are your actual lab levels?  You should have TSH, FT3 and FT4 every few weeks while changing med/dosages. Please post the most recent results you have and be sure to include reference ranges which vary lab to lab and have to come from your own report.  Also be sure to let us know what med/dose you were on, when the labs were done.

What's the increase schedule for Naturethroid?  I know Armour recommends to start at a very low dose, then increase every couple of weeks. Is that what Naturethroid recommends, too?

Because of the long 1/2 life of T4 med, it takes several weeks for the levo to completely leave your body.

Are you multi-dosing the NatureThroid?  I'm on synthetic T3 and I have to multi-dose, otherwise I get WAY too much in the morning, then it's gone long before the day is over. By taking 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 around noon, I keep my FT3 levels much more stable.

I'm happy to hear that you felt better yesterday, but do understand that might not be a lasting thing.  Many of us have up and down days, before we have mostly up days.

Best of luck to you and I hope you'll keep us posted on your progress.

[Anazon123]

Thank you very much Barb - I did take the 1/2 of the quarter grain & feel better for sure - I took the half Levo because the Nature Throid prescribed to me is the lowest dose available just so we could see how I would react to it and I would have had to go back on full blown Levo if this wasn't working. So far so good I have normal brain function again & will contact the doc tomorrow to up the dose but not by much. They gave me 10 to start with & even cut them in half as they are so small.

Since this is the lowest I am very afraid of going really hypo. I have been there & for me I understood why people were institutionalized so I am trying to go up very carefully as I am so sensitive to meds while keeping a somewhat decent level. This week I can ask for a higher dose & ease into that later in the week. I know they have T4/T3 but for me if I take too much I will get sick. After learning the T4 body shelf life I figured my levels would start to get funky this week & with work won't be able to get higher until Thursday. I figure I only have 3/4 Levo in my body and with half of a quarter grain it wasn't much. The doctor & pharmacist said I would have to 'play' with it to see how this will fit in. Yesterday I have to say was the first time in 9 years that I had normal energy & it was quite pleasant. Still scary tho taking this leap without really knowing where the dosing will hit. I did that when I had the thyroid removed for 2 1/2 years after that I settled and said fine this is where I am going to be and feel like. Now I'm really trying to keep the really awful stuff from happening as I make the switch - but i have to be realistic when you say there will be changes as I change.

Thank you for your reply - I really appreciate it. I have reached out on other boards & not getting much response.  

[Barb135]

Are you still taking the NatureThroid?  NatureThroid contains both T3 and T4; since you've just started taking it, you should not add synthetic levo or T3 to it.  

It takes about 4-6 weeks for a med change with T4 in it, to take fully effect; however, the T3 in the NatureThroid is fast acting, so is in and out of your system in hours.  Most people on desiccated thyroid hormones, multi-dose every day; meaning 1/2 dose morning, 1/2 dose late morning to early afternoon.

You should allow yourself time to get used to the NatureThroid, increasing as needed, rather than try to add synthetics, at this point.

It's not unusual for symptoms to worsen or for new ones to appear when changing from one med/dosage to another. You have to give the med time to work.

[Red_Star]

My magnesium serum is mid way.  As long as it's not elevated i'm fine with that. I can keep track of the magnesium deficiency symptoms. One symptom is an itchy heel that is almost impossible to scratch. Magnesium stat! :)