Protein binds/not binds to T3: Clarification on this

[grantj]

Gosh, I hope you all are not getting tired of all my questions since I've joined, but I have yet another.  I read in a previous post something to the effect that protein binds or does not bind to T3 making it less absorbable.  

Here is my issue:  I've had on going challenges with the crash from T3 wear off; however, I think I may have found a dosing schedule that works for me.  Anyways, yesterday I ate a pretty good sized egg salad sandwich and noticed later on that my med simply did not work, I crashed big time.  I waited the usual hour and did everything the same, etc.  I also noticed a while back after I had eaten a tuna sandwich, I had the same result.  Am I dreaming this up, or did someone say something about protein and T3?  

[grantj]

Thanks Barb, I do agree and was really feeling badly about the time they were drawn.  This was me totally off meds for three weeks and but now I have been back on for two and a half weeks and am feeling better each day.  I have forever struggled (two years on Armour now) with the T3 crash I talk about...BUT,  I think I've finally solved my own problem!  I am taking my 30 mg at 7am orally (as always) and a 30 mg 1:30 pm dose sublingually at my gumb line inside my cheek VS. under tongue; has made all the difference in the world this way.  I was taking that second dose orally at 11 am in the past.  Can I tell ya' that the last two days have been perfect!  I only hope this continues, because I have had no evidence of crash whatsoever.  That darn late morning/ afternoon dose if swallowed simply does NOT work, period, and I get wicked crash symptoms late afternoon.  I am hoping and praying that this is really it and when I get my levels tested in a few weeks, my numbers are back up and I am still feeling great!  Absorption has been my issue; I am very confident at this point.  Thanks again...

[Barb135]

Both your FT3 and FT4 are too low in their ranges.  A simple dosage increase might do you a lot more good.  

[grantj]

Hey Barb,
FT3 was 2.4 (2.3-4.2) and my FT4 was 1.02 (.89-1.76).  The next time I have blood drawn, which will be in about three weeks or so, I plan to have adrenals tested as well (not sure what they test, assume it is done through standard lab with blood).  Can you tell anything about adrenals from these readings?  

Here it is:  My morning dose works great, seems to absorb well.  The afternoon dose simply does not (once in a great while maybe, but for the most part, it does not, even waiting two hours after food, hour before food).  With this, I am crashing from the first 30 that I took at 7am around 3pm or so, and the rest of the day suffers.  Yesterday I tried placing the afternoon pill (30 mg) between my gum and inner cheek instead of under tongue or swallowing; wow, what a difference it made.  It took a full two hours to dissolve, which I didn't expect it to take that long.  It created a buzz type sensation, a great deal of energy and good concentration but a pretty intense headache, but the dose took like a charm, no crash feeling whatsoever.  I plan to split my afternoon 30 into two sets of 15 thinking these adverse effects will subside once my body adjusts.  All sound reasonable?    

I have concluded that I am having challenges with absorption, but will certainly still have adrenals tested.  When I place it under tongue, I am pretty sure my saliva is keeping it from absorbing well and it is going down to my stomach anyways vs. into bloodstream, making it no better than if I had swallowed it.

[Barb135]

Do you know what your latest FT3 and FT4 results were (with reference ranges)?  

I'm certainly not an expert on adrenals, but have you had yours checked?  Your "crash" symptoms sound almost like an adrenal crash more so than thyroid.  I get symptoms similar to that when I'm into a really stressful day.  It feels like I'm functioning strictly on adrenaline and all of a sudden there isn't enough to keep up - for me, that's usually around 12:30 - 1:00 pm, since I get up at 3:30 am........ if I can sit down and "chill" for 10-15 minutes, I'm usually okay for a while longer.  

[grantj]

Dosage of T3 med (Armour) is 30 mg 7am, 30 mg 11am and 15mg 3:30-4pm.  My 7am 30 will take me out until 2-2:30 ish; hence, the reason I take another 30 at 11am.  If I wait until 2pm to take second dose, I have some lunch in me and pill will not work at all, even after waiting a couple of hours after lunch.  So, as always, that day I took my 30 7am and my 30 11 am, well, by 2pm I was heading down hill fast and furiously (had eaten around 12:30 pm), telling me that the 11 am dose did not "work".  My symptoms of a crash include a specific type headache, my eyes begin burning, I get a very tired, loss of energy and interest feeling and will turn cranky and impatient more so than usual; always the same symptoms when the crash occurs, no question of what is going on.  When both pills "work" I can get all the way out to around 8-9 pm before crash symptoms start setting in (the 15 mg around 3:30 pm is just the extra I need so I am not heading downhill closer to 6pm-7 or so).

Am I the only one that is this sensitive to T3 wear off?  It is like a whole different type of day when pills are "on" vs. "off"; really paying attention to what I need to do/not do to avoid this situation; reason for wondering about the protein thing.

[Barb135]

What's your dosage of T3 med, and how often are you taking it?  How did you determine that your T3 med didn't work/what caused your "crash"?  

[grantj]

Yeah, I don't know, this is sort of crazy I guess.  Fact is, is that I did wait the hour, etc., all should have been fine.  I ate a decent sized piece of chicken today and did not have a problem with crash at all; in fact, here it is almost 8pm and I have great energy, no cranky-ness (my husband loves it when my pill "works"!), etc.  I will continue to pay attention and perhaps cut out the tuna and eggs; maybe I will try them again though to see if they really are the culprit.  thnx

[goolarra]

Protein is not the real culprit when it comes to binding with T4...the real culprit is fiber.  It's actually recommended to eat a low fiber, high protein breakfast after meds to minimize malabsorption issues.  

T3 is not supposed to have the same restrictions about taking on an empty stomach as T4.  We're all different, and this might be your own personal tummy glitch.  Maybe you should knock off the tuna and egg and see if anything else does the same thing???

[FTB4]

T4 Binds to protein, and I beleive the portion that binds to the protein is lost, T3, although I understand does not bind to protein like T4 does, but you should still wait an hour before taking food and four hours for Vitamins, Minerals and Fiber, there are also foods out there that reduce the absorption of thyroid meds, you can google for a list. Good Luck FTB4