Those of us on Armour and working on dosages and increases

[laura1967]

I thought it would be nice to have a thread of all of us on Armour that have recently started or have been on for a while. We can talk about our increases and symptoms.....how we are doing. Easy way to keep in contact with each other and support each other as we sssslllllooooowwwwwlllly and patiently find our optimum dosage! I think from what I have read and what Stella has said, that patience is the key with Armour. It is not an overnight fix at finding proper dosages. Many of these conversion charts are incorrect and our doctors are not educated at how to prescribe and treat with it. So, we have to educated ourselves and gently educated our doctors on how to medicate us. LOL Sometimes easier said than done when they are use to the synthroid dosages and treatment.
And once again......SSSTTTTEEEELLLLAAAA.......we need you and thank you for you advice and help!!!!   :)

[Linda1068]

I don't take Armour. I just started taking Synthroid.  A guess a thread just for Armour would be good. Is Armour better than Synthroid?

[ChitChatNine]

Armour is different than Synthroid .. most people start with Synthroid and if they cannot get regulated switch to Armour ... I'm not too well versed, but wanted to say Hello.  I am sure our other CL Stella will stop by to share some more info as she is on Armour!

WELCOME TO THE COMMUNITY,

Cheryl

[laura1967]

Armour supplies both T3 and T4 along with T1 and T2. For some it works better and some it doesn't. I think it depends on the individual and if they have a doctor that knows how to prescribe it and dosage it.
I just increased to 75 mgs on saturday. I do seem to have a little more energy with this increase. We will see......

[stella5349]

OK I just got saw this.

What's up and what do you need to know?

I'll hang around a bit today

[laura1967]

Hi stella...i just thought it would be nice for us on armour to keep in easier contact than with all the separate notes...lol  There are quite a few of us that are going through increases, etc.  I will send them notes and let them know about this thread. And I wanted to put out a thank you to you from all of us for all your help with our armour questions. Hugs!

[bretbunch]

I think this is a great idea.  This is really good for me because I am normally not a very patient person!!  I have been on Armour for almost two months now and my current endo doc told me she has never switched anyone from Synthroid to Armour, until me.  So, needless to say, she doesn't understand how to properly increase dosages.  I have learned about Armour from Stella and a website called:  "stopthethyroidmadness.com".  It has some good information about how the dosage changes should work.  My endo initially wanted to start me on 90mg, but I made her change the prescription to 60mg (1 grain) and I have been slowly increasing from there.  It looks like I will have to hold at 105 mg for a little while until my body can handle the change to 120 mg (2 grains).  I am going to a new endo doctor this coming Friday and am looking forward to the appointment.  This one is supposed to be one of the best in Colorado and they do understand Armour Thyroid.  

So...I am feeling that there is hope and that I will be able to trust an endo doc again.  I still feel some hypo symptoms, so I know I'm not on my optimum dose yet and thank goodness I have my hubbie to remind me about the patience I need.   So far, the change to Armour has been potivie for me and it seems that my body has responded well to it.

[laura1967]

Yeah Bretbunch!! You found the thread!!   Yes it is very hard to find docs that know how to dosage and increase. I know mine doesn't....I had called her and asked for an increase. Now she wants me to wait 6wks for bloodwork. I was only on 75mcgs synthroid and went into the 3.5 tsh range so i did go hypo again. So, now i am on 75 mg of armour....quite a high dosage for conversion. I haven't had any palps or hyper feelings whatsoever. Hmmm.
I had increased from 60 to 75 a week ago saturday. I do feel a little more energy. I am still experiencing a lot of visual disturbance with some dizziness and a lot of neck pain in the back of neck.

[iunderstand69]

Hey Laura I got your message about this thread.  I don't know if I would be good to be on this right now.  I am currently on 4 grains of armour which equates to 240 mg,  I am also pregnant so this is going to change drastically over the next 7 months.  Although, if there is anything I can help anyone with or if they have any questions, I will be more than happy to help.

Thanks,
Sally

[laura1967]

Sally-You are now finally at good levels so you will be a positive influence for us. :)  Congrats on your pregnancy....I felt great when i was pregnant. I hope you do too! I know some of us that are just starting out on armour are wondering how long it took.....any symptoms still, a lot of affirmation to us beginners....lol
Thank you for joining us!
Laura

[iunderstand69]

Laura,
Were you having thyroid issues when you were pregnant?  Just curious.  One symptom I had when I increased on armour is I had really bad headaches.  Bad, throbbing headaches.  I had to take a migrane pill once a day for about a month.  Then after the month the headaches went away.  I will also tell you that the first day I changed over to armour I felt better!!  I had energy, my hair stopped falling out, started to lose weight, wasn't depressed and my swelling started going down also.  Ask me anything you want and I will try to help.

[jab73]

Hi all,
I have been on Armour for over 2 years, I think coming up on 3.  I am taking 3g (180mg).  From all that I have read it is kinda high.  My numbers, recently, all came back fine, but I feel that I am on a downward spiral of all the "yucky" symptoms again.  I told the Dr. that and he said "well your numbers are just fine".  Anybody have funky periods, like days between cycles increasing due to the hypothyroid stuff?  Mine recently started increasing (days between) and I don't know where to start.  Great idea for a link for Armour.  Anyone else having a lovely time getting their meds?????

[stella5349]

It is very common and normal for Armour patients to increase slowly to sometimes 3-4-5 grains until becoming optimal.

I so far have only been able to go as high as 2 1/2 grains - but recently had to decrease.

I am having some adrenal issues and my thyroid meds have not been responding well. I am supplementing and supporting my adrenals right now - and feeling better too. I am still at the 90 to 120 level of meds still.

Around my period time I dip to 60mgs.

My TSH at my last visit was 0.04 with no hyper symptoms either.

It is very common with Armour increases that the person will get a headache. It depends on the person how bad they are. They last anywhere from 3 days to almost the two weeks until another increase is needed.

Here is how the increase works - IF you have no adrenal issues.

Start a dosage
Remain on that two weeks
Increase 1/4 grain
Remain on that two more weeks
Increase again 1/4 grain
Remain on that two more weeks
Retest.

Log all symptoms - both ways ( the ones going away ) and the headaches if you get them.

The most biologically effective and direct way to take natural desiccated thyroid is sublingually or orally. i.e. you place the tablet under your tongue, or between your gums and inner cheek.

This allows Armour to be absorbed in full dosages and the stomach is no longer needed to process the meds. THis way is also superior in vanishing and acid issues and GI distress from the thyroid patient.

Jab73= those mgs of Armour is not high at all - that should be pretty close to a stable level. You have to remember T3 meds work continously at the same dose - so if you are symptomatic again and small increase may be needed. Are you taking all at once? If so - many Armour patients take it throughout the day - the higher in the morning and the last doasge around 2pm. This keeps everything balanced.

AND our other homones effect Armour meds. If it is time for your period - naturally it throws off some levels - Armour is designed to give you exact T3 all day - every day. SO:

some days you may not needs as much and some you may need more. I have that flexability with my doctor to self dose - IF needed.

It is crutial to learn about supplements while on Armour to support optimal levels. Basically - calcium - magnesium- zinc - and the B's are widely used. If you have adrenal issues as I - Vit C is so important too.

I am totally available to try and help anyone with questions - I haven't been on much - very very busy - ( Which I am glad to say I can keep up since I switched to Armour)  

PM me anytime.

[laura1967]

Stella-I just wanted to add how very important a good B complex is for the adrenals....they should be taken several times a day until your adrenals are stronger....then you continue on 2x per day indefinately. It needs to be the best brand you can find though. I take a liquid b complex from my dr.  Yes the Vit C in large dosage too. I use to have weak adrenals.
Sally- now that i look back on things, I think I had Graves yrs back and probably started after pregnancy. After my baby i went way under weight and had a lot of issues. I had a great pregnancy though.
Jab73- What were your exact numbers? Did it include Free T3? Do you have hashi's as well?

[Karimomof3]

Hi everyone!!  Thanks Laura for starting this thread!!  I have been on Armour for 6 weeks now, a very low dosage (30mg) with no increase.  I have good days and bad.  I am due for bloodwork this week, so I am anxious to see whats going on.  I wish I had a doctor that knew about the increases every two weeks.  I am feeling so stressed over this, I am getting in trouble at work because I cant concentrate (brain fog), so my production has slowed a bit. I have to read and reread things a couple of times before it registers.. I dont want to tell them about the illness because they are laying people off, and I feel like it might influence their decision.  Anyway, I am sure that I am in need of an increase, and will feel really upset if the doctor doesnt think so.  Question... Do you still need to take Armour on an empty stomach like synthroid?  Also,  what about the people who break their dosage up into 2 times a day.  Does it affect your sleep?  I have a terrible time with insomnia and I dont want to add to that.

[stella5349]

No you can take Armour right before or after a meal IF you take it sublingually.

The stomach is not effected at all.

I break my dosages up about 3x's a day and do not take it after 3pm the lastest.

It takes about 2 1/2 hrs to get the T3 moving -

When I took it later - I found restless sleep an issue.

[stella5349]

Thanks for the B reminder :)

I don't know why - but for me - I am so sloppy at maintaining the B's for myself. I get in a kick of taking them and then - for some reason - get sloppy and not stay consistant.

Thanks for reminding me :)

[peggy64]

Enjoyed the info about "it is common and normal" very informative.

How do you increase the armour, if you do have adrenal issues....... I do have adrenal issues......... have been treating them for quite some time now, they seem to be getting better .

I have had problems prior with armour due to the adrenal issues and crashed. I don't want to chance that again.  I need to be able to stay on armour as synthroid was a BIG pain.

Thanks for taking the time to answer these posts.

[laura1967]

Hi Peggy- are you back on Armour? You need to get on a good adrenal support supplement....go to the health food store and ask them for the best. I was on ones from my chiropractor but have used some from health food store. Also like I reminded stella....best form of Complex B's which need to be taken 3 x/day to start. After a month you can cut down to 2x/day. And of course vit c (good form) 2,000 mg per day. These are the critical things to take and stay on for quite a while to build your adrenals.

Kari-So glad to hear from you! Yes it sounds like you desperately need and increase. Why don't you just go in now for your bloodwork a little early....call your doc and tell him you are feeling very hypo and need testing early. The "FOG" is the worst of all of this hypo stuff to me. HUGS!

[peggy64]

Hi laura, I am back on armour. I have been taking adrenal support for about 3 months now. have been doing the b and c for years....also take coconut oil when I can remember. along with selenium and zinc, and a host of other supplements.

I am hoping my adrenals have improved slightly, and are able to tolerate the armour this go round. I am praying anyway.

[laura1967]

I hope so for you Peggy! This time it will work! What made you change back?
If the supplements dont work, you might want to try a bio-identical adrenal  hormone like cortef...i think is the name. Anyway bio identical would be the strongest thing to get those puppies working! Some people the overcounter stuff just isn't strong enough.
Anyway....we are rooting for you!

[peggy64]

Thank you so much!

The synthroid made me have acid reflux that was so bad, I was burning all the way up my throat. Rx prilosec and gaviscon didn't touch it, then it made me start having stomach spasms, and I had to take bentyl and librax for that. And still getting no relief.
I was taking 4 meds to take one. Didn't make sense to me. My poor liver....

Is cortef script? I had heard about Isocort, I think it is OTC.

The supplements I got are enzymatic from Dr. Jacob teitlebaum. They have a day supplement and a nighttime supplement.  Along with about 4 gms of vit C, spread out throughout the day.

This is really getting to be a learning experience, I know that.

[bretbunch]

Hello all.  Peggy--welcome back to Armour and good luck to you.  I think we can all get through this together!!  I know that I really need the support!

I am due to bloodwork this week--on Friday.  This will be my first bloodwork since changing over to Armour.  I have never had my adrenals or Ferritin checked yet.  How would you know if your adrenals aren't working properly?  Are there symptoms that I should be aware of?  I want to make sure that I have the new endo doc do all the bloodwork that I need this week.  Right now I am taking a multi-vitamin and calcium and I'm not sure that if I am taking enough of the right supplements.  I see a lot of discussion about Vitamin B, Vitamin C, etc.  My multi-vitiamin has the following:

Vitamin B6  2 mg
B12  6 mcg
C  120mg
Magnesium  100mg
Zinc  22.5mg

Total Calcium (w/multi and calcium supplements)  1162 mg

Vitamin D  1200 I.U.


One other question--Does anyone know how menpause affects the thyroid medication?  I had a hysterectomy at age 30 and my current endo doc told me that I am in pre-menopause due to my testosterone levels.  

I would like to be as informed as possible when I go to my new doc on Friday.  I still have some hypo symptoms--the upper back and neck pain and some muscle tenderness on the middle of my chest around my ribs in the front and I seem to be a bit emotional still.  Has anyone else had that symptom too?  

[peggy64]

Hi bret,

From my experience, when I started on armour the first time, my adrenals were so depleted. The armour reeks havoc on the adrenals if they are already in poor shape.

I know I have been babying those 2 little things since then. When the adrenal ain't happy,,,,,,,

a good web site is adrenal fatigue *******. It has a lot of good info.
(words together, actual dot, then com)

Another factor is in catching the thyroid disease in its early stage. If not, then the adrenals do double and triple duty. That causes them to play out, so to speak.  For your sake I hope it was not advanced. That was my problem. I had had symptoms for about 18 years, just thought it was stress related. which is what most drs say. I was not knowledgeable about thyroid issues.

if you have any other questions, we will take a stab at them. That is what I love here. I can ask when I need to, and get help. But I am also able to give.

[stella5349]

Actually Peggy Synthroid can be tougher than Armour on the adrenals.

Synthroid forces the body to convert T4 into T3 which strains the adrenals more than assisting them with all ready replacement T3 in Armour.

But if the adrenals are depleted already- due to hypothyroidism - it is a long process to get them back into shape to do their job.

Bret -

Actually you are right on with your supplement intake - but it may be helpful to up your dosages. Many adrenal suffers use :

Vit C - about 1500 to 3000 (bowel tolerance)

all the B's

Magnesium is about 400-500 mgs

Zinc - another wonderful supplement - about 50mg

Also sea salt is wonderful to get into your diet when the adrenals are hurting - At the beginning I was drinking two glasses a day -

I do it now and then at the moment.