Aa
back and side pain with hypothyroid
does anyone have pain with their hypo?
I have pain in my back .. like bra line and low back and in my sides .. like the ribs but not the bones .. it is like in between the bones .. weird I know :(
but it is every day
thanks
I have pain in my back .. like bra line and low back and in my sides .. like the ribs but not the bones .. it is like in between the bones .. weird I know :(
but it is every day
thanks
You will get no argument from me that a lot of hypo patients do not do well on T4 only, for the reason you mention: poor conversion of T4 to T3. Also scientific studies have confirmed that Free T3 correlated best with hypo symptoms, while Free T4 and TSH did not correlate at all. So I agree that your problems were related to inadequate conversion of T4 and resultant inadequate Free T3; however, the way you have posted previously made it sound like it was all due to high T4, which was misleading. Also, you need to be aware that everyone is different and that what works for one person should not be touted as the answer for everyone.
A big part of why the reference ranges are screwed up is that reference ranges for individuals have been shown to be half of group ranges for each of the thyroid related tests. Another reason is that the ranges for Free T4 and Free T3 are based on all test data done at the lab, excluding only those whose TSH exceeds 5. So the ranges include test results from a lot of sick people, a lot of hypothyroid people who are being treated with thyroid med, and a lot of people with central hypothyroidism. For that reason healthy people with no known thyroid pathology are generally in the upper half of the ranges, but again there are some individuals that are okay at lower levels. Part of the reason for that is tissue thyroid levels are affected by many other things besides Free T4 and Free T3: Reverse T3 is a factor, along with cortisol levels and ferritin levels. Yet many doctors only really pay attention to TSH, and sometimes Free T4 compared to its faulty range, and we all suffer because of it.
A big part of why the reference ranges are screwed up is that reference ranges for individuals have been shown to be half of group ranges for each of the thyroid related tests. Another reason is that the ranges for Free T4 and Free T3 are based on all test data done at the lab, excluding only those whose TSH exceeds 5. So the ranges include test results from a lot of sick people, a lot of hypothyroid people who are being treated with thyroid med, and a lot of people with central hypothyroidism. For that reason healthy people with no known thyroid pathology are generally in the upper half of the ranges, but again there are some individuals that are okay at lower levels. Part of the reason for that is tissue thyroid levels are affected by many other things besides Free T4 and Free T3: Reverse T3 is a factor, along with cortisol levels and ferritin levels. Yet many doctors only really pay attention to TSH, and sometimes Free T4 compared to its faulty range, and we all suffer because of it.
sir, i too went on tsh suppression therapy and started to get back pain (sciatica), muscle pain and many of the symptoms as mentioned in that site. my metabolism never increased when taking more levothyroxine bu instead fall and i started getting circulation problem and leg cramps and many more.
but my symptoms subsided when i reduced the dose which is comfortable for me. when my tsh is under normal ranges .3 to 3. my free t4 is on upper range in reference range and even higher and all other lab results seem normal.
also i noticed an increasing number in cholesterol count when levo dose is increased while when levo dose is decreased to level comfortable cholesterol numbers reduced.
mine case is poor t4 to t3 conversion and for that simply increasing t4 does reduce the tsh to bring under its normal range but not helping to increase the t3 levels and actually making situation worse.
but my symptoms subsided when i reduced the dose which is comfortable for me. when my tsh is under normal ranges .3 to 3. my free t4 is on upper range in reference range and even higher and all other lab results seem normal.
also i noticed an increasing number in cholesterol count when levo dose is increased while when levo dose is decreased to level comfortable cholesterol numbers reduced.
mine case is poor t4 to t3 conversion and for that simply increasing t4 does reduce the tsh to bring under its normal range but not helping to increase the t3 levels and actually making situation worse.
There is so much misleading misleading info in the following link you gave above that I have to take the time to refute it.
http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/bone_loss_caused_by_thyroid_meds_and_other_drugs/
First thing is the inference that thyroid med causes bone loss and osteoporosis. False. As I already mentioned, thyroid hormone does not cause bone loss, it simply increases metabolism and therefore the rate of the current bone formation or loss. Most older women are losing bone due to their combined sex steroid, DHEA, Vitamin D, and growth hormone deficiencies.
Next is that optimal TSH scores are not 1.8 -2.0. The body evolved to react to continuing production of natural T4 and T3 throughout the day. Taking large doses of TSH once daily tends to suppress the TSH level. That does not mean that the patient becomes hyperthyroid, unless there is excessive levels of Free T4 and Free T3. There are a number of members with TSH levels in the range of .05 or less for a long time with no hyper symptoms. Note the following two studies that confirm that TSH is a frequent occurrence when taking thyroid meds.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12481949
"Suppression of TSH by thyroid replacement to levels below 0.1 mU/L predicted euthyroidism in 92% of cases, compared to 34% when TSH was above 1 mU/L (p < 0.0001). In conclusion, in central hypothyroidism baseline TSH is usually within normal values, and is further suppressed by exogenous thyroid hormone as in primary hypothyroidism, but to lower levels. Thus, insufficient replacement may be reflected by inappropriately elevated TSH levels, and may lead to dosage increment."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1366242
"When TSH was suppressed, FT4 was elevated in 30.4% but normal in 69.6% of patients."
So all this confirms that targeting TSH to the level recommended in the article will only result in lingering hypo symptoms for many hypo patients. This shows that the article is not very factual.
As for having bone fractures and osteoporosis when taking Levothyroxine, I am not going to spend the time again to read through one of your sources just to find discrepancies. Suffice to say that thyroid hormone does not cause bone loss, it simply increases metabolism and therefore the rate of the current bone formation or loss. Most older women are losing bone due to their combined sex steroid, DHEA, Vitamin D, and growth hormone deficiencies. Taking thyroid med to reach euthyroidism does not cause bone fractures or osteoporosis. As stated, there are other studies that refute the association of osteoporosis and thyroid med.
In the post right above, you state that T4 should not cross the 75% line. That is wrong. Conversion of T4 to Reverse T3 is related to a number of things other than T4 level.
You really need to slow down and make sure of what you keep posting on so many threads. You need to make sure that there is scientific evidence to support what you say, and even review the scientific study and make sure it is valid. You can't just rely on anecdotal evidence and articles like the one above that I have refuted. I am spending way too much time doing that for you and I am not going to continue to do so.
http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/bone_loss_caused_by_thyroid_meds_and_other_drugs/
First thing is the inference that thyroid med causes bone loss and osteoporosis. False. As I already mentioned, thyroid hormone does not cause bone loss, it simply increases metabolism and therefore the rate of the current bone formation or loss. Most older women are losing bone due to their combined sex steroid, DHEA, Vitamin D, and growth hormone deficiencies.
Next is that optimal TSH scores are not 1.8 -2.0. The body evolved to react to continuing production of natural T4 and T3 throughout the day. Taking large doses of TSH once daily tends to suppress the TSH level. That does not mean that the patient becomes hyperthyroid, unless there is excessive levels of Free T4 and Free T3. There are a number of members with TSH levels in the range of .05 or less for a long time with no hyper symptoms. Note the following two studies that confirm that TSH is a frequent occurrence when taking thyroid meds.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12481949
"Suppression of TSH by thyroid replacement to levels below 0.1 mU/L predicted euthyroidism in 92% of cases, compared to 34% when TSH was above 1 mU/L (p < 0.0001). In conclusion, in central hypothyroidism baseline TSH is usually within normal values, and is further suppressed by exogenous thyroid hormone as in primary hypothyroidism, but to lower levels. Thus, insufficient replacement may be reflected by inappropriately elevated TSH levels, and may lead to dosage increment."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1366242
"When TSH was suppressed, FT4 was elevated in 30.4% but normal in 69.6% of patients."
So all this confirms that targeting TSH to the level recommended in the article will only result in lingering hypo symptoms for many hypo patients. This shows that the article is not very factual.
As for having bone fractures and osteoporosis when taking Levothyroxine, I am not going to spend the time again to read through one of your sources just to find discrepancies. Suffice to say that thyroid hormone does not cause bone loss, it simply increases metabolism and therefore the rate of the current bone formation or loss. Most older women are losing bone due to their combined sex steroid, DHEA, Vitamin D, and growth hormone deficiencies. Taking thyroid med to reach euthyroidism does not cause bone fractures or osteoporosis. As stated, there are other studies that refute the association of osteoporosis and thyroid med.
In the post right above, you state that T4 should not cross the 75% line. That is wrong. Conversion of T4 to Reverse T3 is related to a number of things other than T4 level.
You really need to slow down and make sure of what you keep posting on so many threads. You need to make sure that there is scientific evidence to support what you say, and even review the scientific study and make sure it is valid. You can't just rely on anecdotal evidence and articles like the one above that I have refuted. I am spending way too much time doing that for you and I am not going to continue to do so.
free t4 should not cross 75% of reference range. various symptoms can come like palpitations, insomnia, diarrhea etc. also symptoms may not appear but still remaining in high range is risky due to a strong relation of increased t4 with increase chance of reducing bone mineral density and other complications.
also an increased t4 doesn't always mean increased metabolism in fact it can actually slow down metabolism in some individuals due to increased reverse t3 due to thyroxine overdose, especially in thyroid results like this (t4 to t3 conversion problem).
also an increased t4 doesn't always mean increased metabolism in fact it can actually slow down metabolism in some individuals due to increased reverse t3 due to thyroxine overdose, especially in thyroid results like this (t4 to t3 conversion problem).
http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/bone_loss_caused_by_thyroid_meds_and_other_drugs/
Levothyroxine is the most commonly prescribed drug in our nation and it poses a hazard for bones. Prescription medications that contain thyroxine such as Levothyroxine, Synthroid, etc. or thyroid hormone replacement drugs are linked with bone loss and osteoporosis. Unfortunately, many times the consumer is unaware of this long term outcome. Too much thyroid medication or poor management of the medication can cause increased bone loss and risk for fracture. The development of osteoporosis can occur with using thyroid hormones for several years. This is a risk for most consumers who are put on Synthroid or other thyroid meds for life.
Osteoporosis induced by mismanaged medications creates a potentially serious health hazard. It is often overlooked, dismissed, or occurs from lack of knowledge. The risks apply to men and women and include the 25 year old woman with Hashimoto’s or the Baby Boomer with sluggish thyroid who uses thyroid hormone. Both often end up using the medication for the rest of their life.
Risks increase when patients ask their provider for a little more thyroid hormone medicine to give them extra energy or when physicians improperly manage the medication dose and put patients in a risky area of compromised bone health. It also occurs with standard use.
Most studies point to drug suppression of TSH or lowering TSH scores as the cause of drug induced osteoporosis. Tightly managed optimal TSH scores are 1.8 – 2.0. Considerably lower TSH scores are considered risky and lead to the adverse effect. There is considerable debate in the literature for where this cut off point occurs. Despite this debate amongst researchers, Levothyroxine induced bone loss is clearly noted in the Abbott Laboratories pharmaceutical manufacturing information.
The prestigious British Medical Journal published a case controlled study in 2011 involving over 213,000 participants over the age of 70 with 88% of the participants women. This study clearly showed that 10.4% of those taking levothyroxine experienced a fracture within 4 years of using the properly prescribed dose. Higher prescription doses resulted in higher occurrence of fractures.
An extended retrospective research study in the United Kingdom was performed with over 23,000 patients. Those who used levothyroxine showed an increase in fractures of the femur bone, the strongest bone of the body. The risk was not extensive, but still present. The unusual finding was that it occurred more in men than women. This was presumably due to the protective effects of estrogen in women. This study did not focus on other sites of fracture common with osteoporosis, including wrist or spinal compression fractures. It did not delve into how many individuals had developed bone loss - only fractures.
Another study focused on 194 women who took the thyroid hormone for more than 20 years. Women had significantly lower bone mineral density in forearm, hip, and low back than those who did not take levothyroxine. Other studies refute the association of osteoporosis and thyroid medications. The fact remains that the drug manufacturer of Synthroid clearly shows bone loss as an adverse effect.
Levothyroxine is the most commonly prescribed drug in our nation and it poses a hazard for bones. Prescription medications that contain thyroxine such as Levothyroxine, Synthroid, etc. or thyroid hormone replacement drugs are linked with bone loss and osteoporosis. Unfortunately, many times the consumer is unaware of this long term outcome. Too much thyroid medication or poor management of the medication can cause increased bone loss and risk for fracture. The development of osteoporosis can occur with using thyroid hormones for several years. This is a risk for most consumers who are put on Synthroid or other thyroid meds for life.
Osteoporosis induced by mismanaged medications creates a potentially serious health hazard. It is often overlooked, dismissed, or occurs from lack of knowledge. The risks apply to men and women and include the 25 year old woman with Hashimoto’s or the Baby Boomer with sluggish thyroid who uses thyroid hormone. Both often end up using the medication for the rest of their life.
Risks increase when patients ask their provider for a little more thyroid hormone medicine to give them extra energy or when physicians improperly manage the medication dose and put patients in a risky area of compromised bone health. It also occurs with standard use.
Most studies point to drug suppression of TSH or lowering TSH scores as the cause of drug induced osteoporosis. Tightly managed optimal TSH scores are 1.8 – 2.0. Considerably lower TSH scores are considered risky and lead to the adverse effect. There is considerable debate in the literature for where this cut off point occurs. Despite this debate amongst researchers, Levothyroxine induced bone loss is clearly noted in the Abbott Laboratories pharmaceutical manufacturing information.
The prestigious British Medical Journal published a case controlled study in 2011 involving over 213,000 participants over the age of 70 with 88% of the participants women. This study clearly showed that 10.4% of those taking levothyroxine experienced a fracture within 4 years of using the properly prescribed dose. Higher prescription doses resulted in higher occurrence of fractures.
An extended retrospective research study in the United Kingdom was performed with over 23,000 patients. Those who used levothyroxine showed an increase in fractures of the femur bone, the strongest bone of the body. The risk was not extensive, but still present. The unusual finding was that it occurred more in men than women. This was presumably due to the protective effects of estrogen in women. This study did not focus on other sites of fracture common with osteoporosis, including wrist or spinal compression fractures. It did not delve into how many individuals had developed bone loss - only fractures.
Another study focused on 194 women who took the thyroid hormone for more than 20 years. Women had significantly lower bone mineral density in forearm, hip, and low back than those who did not take levothyroxine. Other studies refute the association of osteoporosis and thyroid medications. The fact remains that the drug manufacturer of Synthroid clearly shows bone loss as an adverse effect.
Again you are making claims that I want to see some scientific evidence that supports it. Thyroid hormone does not cause bone loss, it simply increases metabolism and therefore the rate of the current bone formation or loss. Also hypo patients typically have higher cholesterol and it usually is reduced as the patient takes enough thyroid hormone to become euthyroid.
You also said, "if your free t4 is on high side levo dose should need to be reduced, irrespective of what value your tsh is." What is "the high side"? That description is too general and may be misleading.
You also said, "if your free t4 is on high side levo dose should need to be reduced, irrespective of what value your tsh is." What is "the high side"? That description is too general and may be misleading.
you not tested free t4 and free t3 with tsh?
free t4 is the most important factor to be tested for dosing levo. if your free t4 is on high side levo dose should need to be reduced irrespective of what value your tsh is. if remain on too much levo all kind of problems like osteoporosis, raised cholesterol, lack of energy all can be experianced.
free t4 is the most important factor to be tested for dosing levo. if your free t4 is on high side levo dose should need to be reduced irrespective of what value your tsh is. if remain on too much levo all kind of problems like osteoporosis, raised cholesterol, lack of energy all can be experianced.
Hi
I have had same rib side pain for months I have what the Dr thinks is thryoid issues but all tests in normal limits ,I have itching burning prickly skin ,sometimes red rash sometimes not,I also have pain in the right rib and back feels like something is stuck inside ???? weird anyone else have random worrying stuff like this is it normal or??? Any thoughts or anyone will similar symptoms would be great to hear from you thanks :)
I have had same rib side pain for months I have what the Dr thinks is thryoid issues but all tests in normal limits ,I have itching burning prickly skin ,sometimes red rash sometimes not,I also have pain in the right rib and back feels like something is stuck inside ???? weird anyone else have random worrying stuff like this is it normal or??? Any thoughts or anyone will similar symptoms would be great to hear from you thanks :)
1 Comments
You described me a few months ago...guess what....I broke out with shingles.
Thank you so much for your reply.
I posted a question on the dr. site. I will repost it here... do you have any ideas about these labs?
I have got to find out what to do.... I feel yuck everyday :(
I want my life back :)
*******************************
HI I am not sure where to post this.. I am hypo and my ranges change all the time... some people it takes weeks to change but in me it only takes days (ref. range 0.450-4.500)
Feb 2nd taking .44 synthroid Tsh 8.630
March 3rd .88 o.353
March 25th .44 1.360
April 5th .66 4.60
April 19th .44 6.760
May 5th .44 2.550
since that test they have me taking .44 one day .66 the next day... the doctor thinks my range should be about 3.0 because lower and I feel really sick, weepy, shaking, hair falling out!!!
but now i still feel like yuck most of the time....my ribs and back hurt all the time ( have be checked by uri doc.. full work up ... everything perfect)
And I am never tired!! I ride my bike 10 miles every single day. I sleep 6 to 7 hours a day.
I just hurt and feel sick... anxious, stomach queasy .....
Any ideas at all? This is taking my life away from me. I can't do anything, .... I ride my bike and stay at home :(
I also had calcium from 9.2 to 10.2
ionized calcium 5.4
Low vit. D (at 24)
PTH 51
Any help would be wonderful
I posted a question on the dr. site. I will repost it here... do you have any ideas about these labs?
I have got to find out what to do.... I feel yuck everyday :(
I want my life back :)
*******************************
HI I am not sure where to post this.. I am hypo and my ranges change all the time... some people it takes weeks to change but in me it only takes days (ref. range 0.450-4.500)
Feb 2nd taking .44 synthroid Tsh 8.630
March 3rd .88 o.353
March 25th .44 1.360
April 5th .66 4.60
April 19th .44 6.760
May 5th .44 2.550
since that test they have me taking .44 one day .66 the next day... the doctor thinks my range should be about 3.0 because lower and I feel really sick, weepy, shaking, hair falling out!!!
but now i still feel like yuck most of the time....my ribs and back hurt all the time ( have be checked by uri doc.. full work up ... everything perfect)
And I am never tired!! I ride my bike 10 miles every single day. I sleep 6 to 7 hours a day.
I just hurt and feel sick... anxious, stomach queasy .....
Any ideas at all? This is taking my life away from me. I can't do anything, .... I ride my bike and stay at home :(
I also had calcium from 9.2 to 10.2
ionized calcium 5.4
Low vit. D (at 24)
PTH 51
Any help would be wonderful
hi yes i have it too the same and my body really aches. trying to get my levels right i think im on the right track. i thought it was my bed so i bought a new bed but i still ache. even my abdomen area is aching. been taking aspirin and that helps and what really helps alot is yoga it makes a big difference. GOD BLESS YOU FEEL BETTER SOON.
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