Aa
HELP!!!!
I have never been on this forum, but I have been on others. Anyway, I have not seen anything about thyroglobulin antibodies and I am wondering if anyone can help me out. Mine was 414.1 and the positive range is greater than 100. My doctor just said we will test againg in 6 months. Should I be concerned?
WOW ... thank you all for such varied sources from which to draw your conclusions from. These are resources for you to read and refer to as you help answer your question on your original post.
Thank you all for your varied inputs! That is what sets us apart from the "other forums" .. we have a wonderful community of members who not only really care about helping you but have gone above and beyond to do research for you .. a fellow member!
I hope you stick around and let us know what you decide and how you do and even help others with your insight and experience as today you have a dilemma and not sure which road to take .. I hope our members have helped you decide!
WELCOME to MedHelps' Thyroid Disorders Community!!!!
Cheryl - Community Leader
1/07 Papillary Cancer
Thank you all for your varied inputs! That is what sets us apart from the "other forums" .. we have a wonderful community of members who not only really care about helping you but have gone above and beyond to do research for you .. a fellow member!
I hope you stick around and let us know what you decide and how you do and even help others with your insight and experience as today you have a dilemma and not sure which road to take .. I hope our members have helped you decide!
WELCOME to MedHelps' Thyroid Disorders Community!!!!
Cheryl - Community Leader
1/07 Papillary Cancer
Yes.
She interviewed a doctor that said he could cure autoimmune thyroid conditions with long term low dose antibiotic treatments.
Go to Google and type in Stop The Thyroid Madness. It's her home page, and on just that page she says over and over again that it is NOT POSSIBLE to be well on T4 meds. That is a lie being proven a lie by millions of people every day.
That right there should be the end of her credibility.
She has some worthwhile material, but why spend the time weeding through the bull when you have to verify everything you read by looking up another source.
Just like this study. A three month study that proves nothing. People taking sugar pills have their TPOab fall below 30.
No mention of TGab at all, and no follow-up on it a year later. Meaningless.
The four studies I linked to are just as worthless, except nobody's TPOab fell nearly as much. Only one study ran longer than three months, and it concluded at nine months that the benefit was declining.
The five studies put together indicate that selenium will drop the TPOab titer by 20-45%. But there is no data three years down the road.
My TPOab was 1,250 before I started selenium, and it's above 1,200 now. And if it was 900, it wouldn't really make a difference, would it? The studies indicated, by the way, that the patients that showed the largest decline had the highest titers to begin with, so mine should have dropped substantially.
I guess I could postulate that the selenium kept my TPOab from rising to 2,000, but that would be grasping.
Now if it was 100 and I could get it down to 50, then that would be spiffy. But I still have the TGab to deal with.
She interviewed a doctor that said he could cure autoimmune thyroid conditions with long term low dose antibiotic treatments.
Go to Google and type in Stop The Thyroid Madness. It's her home page, and on just that page she says over and over again that it is NOT POSSIBLE to be well on T4 meds. That is a lie being proven a lie by millions of people every day.
That right there should be the end of her credibility.
She has some worthwhile material, but why spend the time weeding through the bull when you have to verify everything you read by looking up another source.
Just like this study. A three month study that proves nothing. People taking sugar pills have their TPOab fall below 30.
No mention of TGab at all, and no follow-up on it a year later. Meaningless.
The four studies I linked to are just as worthless, except nobody's TPOab fell nearly as much. Only one study ran longer than three months, and it concluded at nine months that the benefit was declining.
The five studies put together indicate that selenium will drop the TPOab titer by 20-45%. But there is no data three years down the road.
My TPOab was 1,250 before I started selenium, and it's above 1,200 now. And if it was 900, it wouldn't really make a difference, would it? The studies indicated, by the way, that the patients that showed the largest decline had the highest titers to begin with, so mine should have dropped substantially.
I guess I could postulate that the selenium kept my TPOab from rising to 2,000, but that would be grasping.
Now if it was 100 and I could get it down to 50, then that would be spiffy. But I still have the TGab to deal with.
Isn't Mary Shomon the one that penned the article about "curing" thyroid problems with antibiotics?
Here are four more studies. Some of them quite small, some short, some longer duration. In three of the four studies, the placebo "control" group showed reduction of TPOab at about half the percentage of titer that the group taking selenium displayed.
In one study, TGab was also monitored, and it was found that TGab was lowered in the control group, but the group taking selenium showed no change in TGab titer.
So what does this mean?
Selenium can lower TPOab, but very few patients showed a reduction greater than 50%. The one study that monitored TGab showed selenium to have no effect on TGab titers.
In every study I have read, and there are others to look at in the links provided, the placebo group also showed reduction in TPOab titers. If the patients taking sugar pills are showing improvement, what is the study really saying?
The longest study (9 months) concluded that the suppression rate decreases with time.
To me this indicates that taking selenium is a good idea, but it will not heal your immune system. It may slow the progression of the disease, but it does not seem to affect TGab, and there is no data to show the effectiveness of taking it for years as far as holding TPOab titers to a lower level.
I did not keep my word in presenting four sources that show a 10-15% reduction is all you can expect, but I tried. :-)
The first link is the most dour. I couldn't help myself.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18302514?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12656658?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932302?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16837619?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
In one study, TGab was also monitored, and it was found that TGab was lowered in the control group, but the group taking selenium showed no change in TGab titer.
So what does this mean?
Selenium can lower TPOab, but very few patients showed a reduction greater than 50%. The one study that monitored TGab showed selenium to have no effect on TGab titers.
In every study I have read, and there are others to look at in the links provided, the placebo group also showed reduction in TPOab titers. If the patients taking sugar pills are showing improvement, what is the study really saying?
The longest study (9 months) concluded that the suppression rate decreases with time.
To me this indicates that taking selenium is a good idea, but it will not heal your immune system. It may slow the progression of the disease, but it does not seem to affect TGab, and there is no data to show the effectiveness of taking it for years as far as holding TPOab titers to a lower level.
I did not keep my word in presenting four sources that show a 10-15% reduction is all you can expect, but I tried. :-)
The first link is the most dour. I couldn't help myself.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18302514?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12656658?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932302?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16837619?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Yes, I looked back and found all that.
First of all, I must say having Mary Shomon's name involved impresses me not at all.
So, I found the actual study she refers to. It is no more impressive. Here it is.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1687?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=selenium&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&resourcetype=HWCIT
Read it carefully. I did. Guess what? People receiving a placebo also had their antibodies reduced, some to below normal limits. Two seperate studies using less than 90 people in each study, half of them receiving placebos, and EVERYBODY showed improvement.
I'm taking 210mcg of selenium, and have for two years. My TPOab is still the same. My TGab hasn't been rechecked, and my Graves antibodies haven't been rechecked.
Selenium MAY drop your antibody titer some, but to tell people that taking selenium will drop their antibodies to normal and stop the progression of the disease is misinformation.
And Mary Shomon is deceptive in her presentation of information.
First of all, I must say having Mary Shomon's name involved impresses me not at all.
So, I found the actual study she refers to. It is no more impressive. Here it is.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/1687?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=selenium&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&volume=87&resourcetype=HWCIT
Read it carefully. I did. Guess what? People receiving a placebo also had their antibodies reduced, some to below normal limits. Two seperate studies using less than 90 people in each study, half of them receiving placebos, and EVERYBODY showed improvement.
I'm taking 210mcg of selenium, and have for two years. My TPOab is still the same. My TGab hasn't been rechecked, and my Graves antibodies haven't been rechecked.
Selenium MAY drop your antibody titer some, but to tell people that taking selenium will drop their antibodies to normal and stop the progression of the disease is misinformation.
And Mary Shomon is deceptive in her presentation of information.
Supplementing With Selenium May Help Thyroiditis
June 25, 2001 / UPDATED June 27, 2001
According to findings reported at the 83rd Annual Meeting of the Endocrine Society in Denver, Colorado last week, supplementing with selenium may help to slow down the progression of autoimmune thyroid disease -- and may be particulary effective during the onset of thyroiditis.
The findings were reported by Munich, Germany physician Barbara Gasnier, of the Medizinische Klinik University.
The researchers believe that a deficiency in selenium may contribute in part to development of autoimmune thyroid problems because of selenium's impact on certain immune system enzymes.
The study looked at 72 women at an average age of 42, all who had autoimmune thyroiditis. In all the women, thyroid peroxidase (TPO) antibodies and/or thyroglobulin (Tg) antibody levels were greater than 350 U/mL.
Half the patients received selenium supplementation for three months, the other half received a placebo. All patients were normalized on their thyroid hormone treatment. At the conclusion of the three month period, autoantibody levels were measured.
Interesting, nine of the patients taking selenium supplementation had antibody levels that returned completely to normal. Two members of the placebo control group had antibodies return to normal.
Among those in the selenium group, the mean TPO antibody levels decreased significantly in the selenium group. The higher the TPO at the onset of the test, the greater the reduction was seen in the TPO antibody levels at the end of the three months.
It was reported in DG News that the researchers stated: "Selenium substitution with 200 mcg (micrograms) (SEE NOTE BELOW ABOUT THIS AMOUNT) of sodium selenite may improve the inflammatory activity in patients with autoimmune thyroiditis, but whether this effect is specific for autoimmune thyroiditis or may also be effective in other organ-specific autoimmune diseases has to be investigated."
Dr. Gasnier has indicated that the selenium may be increasing peroxidase activity, lowering free radicals, and reducing inflammation.
WARNING/IMPORTANT NOTE / June 27, 2001 An earlier version of this report issued by DG News inaccurately indicated that the amount of sodium selenite was 200 milligrams, instead of 200 micrograms. This incorrect and higher amount is considered an extremely high and a potentially toxic amount of selenium. Thyroid F.Y.I. verified on Wednesday June 27, 2001 with the Endocrine Society that the original research abstract says "200 micrograms," but was mistakenly summarized by DG News as milligrams (mg).
June 25, 2001 / UPDATED June 27, 2001
According to findings reported at the 83rd Annual Meeting of the Endocrine Society in Denver, Colorado last week, supplementing with selenium may help to slow down the progression of autoimmune thyroid disease -- and may be particulary effective during the onset of thyroiditis.
The findings were reported by Munich, Germany physician Barbara Gasnier, of the Medizinische Klinik University.
The researchers believe that a deficiency in selenium may contribute in part to development of autoimmune thyroid problems because of selenium's impact on certain immune system enzymes.
The study looked at 72 women at an average age of 42, all who had autoimmune thyroiditis. In all the women, thyroid peroxidase (TPO) antibodies and/or thyroglobulin (Tg) antibody levels were greater than 350 U/mL.
Half the patients received selenium supplementation for three months, the other half received a placebo. All patients were normalized on their thyroid hormone treatment. At the conclusion of the three month period, autoantibody levels were measured.
Interesting, nine of the patients taking selenium supplementation had antibody levels that returned completely to normal. Two members of the placebo control group had antibodies return to normal.
Among those in the selenium group, the mean TPO antibody levels decreased significantly in the selenium group. The higher the TPO at the onset of the test, the greater the reduction was seen in the TPO antibody levels at the end of the three months.
It was reported in DG News that the researchers stated: "Selenium substitution with 200 mcg (micrograms) (SEE NOTE BELOW ABOUT THIS AMOUNT) of sodium selenite may improve the inflammatory activity in patients with autoimmune thyroiditis, but whether this effect is specific for autoimmune thyroiditis or may also be effective in other organ-specific autoimmune diseases has to be investigated."
Dr. Gasnier has indicated that the selenium may be increasing peroxidase activity, lowering free radicals, and reducing inflammation.
WARNING/IMPORTANT NOTE / June 27, 2001 An earlier version of this report issued by DG News inaccurately indicated that the amount of sodium selenite was 200 milligrams, instead of 200 micrograms. This incorrect and higher amount is considered an extremely high and a potentially toxic amount of selenium. Thyroid F.Y.I. verified on Wednesday June 27, 2001 with the Endocrine Society that the original research abstract says "200 micrograms," but was mistakenly summarized by DG News as milligrams (mg).
Selenium Supplementation in Patients with Autoimmune Thyroiditis Decreases Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies Concentrations
by Mary J. Shomon
October, 2002 -- German researchers have found that in areas with severe selenium deficiency, there is a higher incidence of thyroiditis due to a reduction in the activity of selenium-dependent glutathione peroxidase in thyroid cells. Selenium-dependent enzymes also have a number of effects on the immune system, and selenium deficiency can contribute to the development and continuation of autoimmune thyroid diseases. In the study, patients received 200 micrograms of sodium selenite supplements over three months. Thyroid antibody levels decreased by as much as 40 to 63%, and a small percentage of patients in the selenium-treated group had antibody levels that completely returned to normal. The researchers concluded that selenium supplementation may reduce inflammation in patients with autoimmune thyroiditis. Source: The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol. 87, No. 4 1490-1498
"The selenium suppliments 200 microgram per day were able to reduce the level of antibodies to normal range, which prevents further destruction of thyroid gland."
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If this were true, many of us would not have thyroids turning to jelly. Post the study. I want to see reputable conclusions stating Hashimoto's can be cured, which is what you are saying.
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If this were true, many of us would not have thyroids turning to jelly. Post the study. I want to see reputable conclusions stating Hashimoto's can be cured, which is what you are saying.
I have had sent you a PM three weeks ago about he source this should be in your message in folder.
The best way to stop the autoimmune disease is to work the different level to modify the body immune system.
The best way to stop the autoimmune disease is to work the different level to modify the body immune system.
That is completely not true.
I have been taking 200mcg of selenium for two years and my antibodies have not gone down at all.
Post the study that you keep referring to.
Then I'll take the time to find four sources that say it will only drop the titer 10-15%.
I have been taking 200mcg of selenium for two years and my antibodies have not gone down at all.
Post the study that you keep referring to.
Then I'll take the time to find four sources that say it will only drop the titer 10-15%.
The selenium suppliments 200 microgram per day were able to reduce the level of antibodies to normal range, which prevents further destruction of thyroid gland.
Thank you for your response. So, would you say that 400 is not really that high? I have been on a search for 6 months trying to find out what is causing my symptoms. My pain started in my neck, but is now everywhere. I've been on many meds, and nothing does more than take the edge off. I also seem to move very slowly. Do you think the thyroglobulin thing has anything to do with this? I am going to the cleveland clinic in a couple of weeks, so it will be interesting to see what they say. What are your symptoms and how long have you been having this?
My TgAbs have been anywhere from 1500-2100. The presence of these antibodies (and/or TPO antibodies) means you most likely have Hashimoto's (autoimmune thyroid disease). This can be confirmed by having an FNA, but I think most docs go off the positive antibodies, especially when they're pretty high.
If you haven't done so already, you should have your TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested to see where your thyroid levels are, and you can post all your results with the lab ranges here for additional feedback if you'd like. Many docs go by outdated ranges - the AACE currently has an upper range of 3.0, but many labs still have outdated ranges of up to 5.5 or so.
Some docs take a wait and see approach to see what effect the Ab's are having on the thyroid, and won't treat until overt thyroid disease surfaces. Others will treat even if you're not out of range yet to try and slow down the attack.
How are you feeling? Do you have symptoms? My advice to you is read up on Hashimoto's and thyroid disease. If you're symptomatic but your thyroid isn't out of lab ranges yet you may have to shop around a little to find a doc who will treat you.
Hope this helps :)
If you haven't done so already, you should have your TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested to see where your thyroid levels are, and you can post all your results with the lab ranges here for additional feedback if you'd like. Many docs go by outdated ranges - the AACE currently has an upper range of 3.0, but many labs still have outdated ranges of up to 5.5 or so.
Some docs take a wait and see approach to see what effect the Ab's are having on the thyroid, and won't treat until overt thyroid disease surfaces. Others will treat even if you're not out of range yet to try and slow down the attack.
How are you feeling? Do you have symptoms? My advice to you is read up on Hashimoto's and thyroid disease. If you're symptomatic but your thyroid isn't out of lab ranges yet you may have to shop around a little to find a doc who will treat you.
Hope this helps :)
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