Is it abuse?

[Positively12]

I have several instances but will only state one at this time why I believe my 2-year-old grandson is being emotionally (and perhaps physically abused) by his daddy (my S-I-L)... I call it as I see it... my SIL is a big bully, he bullies my daughter (his wife) and has begun playing head games with my g-son.  As recent as yesterday I took my grandson home after him spending the night with me..  My SIL was outside and working in the yard... he turned to my grandson when I got him out of the car and told him in a very loud voice "Come here right now!  There was immediate fear on my g-son's face and his dad kept insisting he come to him over and over again raising his voice louder each time.  My g-son at that time rooted his feet firmly to the ground and wouldn't move.. .My SIL at that time said "Don't make me get mean with you, you know what it's like when I get mean!"  And my g-son ducked his head and started little by little inching towards him... My SIL said "one step at a time but come! Don't make me come and get you!"  My g-son was almost there and my SIL said "Okay so Daddy wants a hug, that's all you have to do is listen to me, was that so bad?  Next time listen and we won't have to go through this!"  This is just one example and there are many more where I believe some physical abuse has taken place also... BTW my daughter just stood where she was and watched the whole thing transpire as she is very frightened of her husband also... Please help me to know what the fine line between abuse and just being a BIG BULLY is.... I don't want to stand by and allow things to get worse if I should be more proactive.  

[Nighthawk61]

After re reading your post, i wanted to say... that it's important that you try not to alienate your daughter by what she perceives to be attacking her husband. The thing is. this man was abused, and she knows that. She is over compensating at the moment. If you have to say anything about him at all, you could say, "Obviously something has happened in his life, when he was a child , that he knew no love. It's a terrible way for a child to live. I feel really sorry for him. But , unfortunately, if one does not want to get help, if they are in denial and only know that they must alienate their children and wife from the world, in order for them to reign supreme. Then that's all they know.

By being able to talk about what is wrong, without making her decision for her, I think you'd get results quicker. Let her see that yes, he's sick, i've heard how he was treated as a child. I can see that his upbringing has harmed his ability as a primary caregiver. Don't shoot for 0 to 140 in 90 seconds. This will take time and hopefully therapy. She needs to have an epiphany and make the changes herself.

[Positively12]

Hi again, I see now I answered without seeing your previous post  above :)  Went out of town to visit my dad this weekend and have "road lag" ha ha!  ... Yes, Liz I will think hard about my answer to you about her early witnessing of any type of abuse and get back to you soon... Thank you so much for taking time out to help me with this matter.  :)  

[Nighthawk61]

Again, Positively12, I asked about your daughter witnessing any abuse as a child only because when she finally does see the light, it will be the first question asked by a therapist, and the first step in her treatment. I hope you see what i mean.:) Liz

[Nighthawk61]

I'm so sorry to hear how bad this is for you to have to watch. There could be no worse nightmare than to watch this go down from the sidelines.
So we've ascertained that the SIL was raised in an abusive home, and you've touched on the fact that you've had your fair share of an abusive relationship, so I have to ask this. (ONLY to help and not to point fingers)... Is there anything that you allowed to happen in front of your daughter or within her earshot that may have acclimatized her to believe that this was a type of life that was acceptable for ANY reason? Maybe very early in her life, for a very short time even? The reason why this is important is because when a women goes through therapy it is the family of origin that must be looked at very closely in order for treatment to go on in the most advantageous manner. For instance, after a huge problem with addictions after coming from a abusive family and marrying an abusive man, the first thing that I had to do to was to deal with things as they happened from the start of my life. If for instance, there was ANYTHING that WAS Unhealthy that was shown to her (as a young impressionable immature self) then it is the first step in her treatment to be ale to talk about that to you. In other words in order for you to gain your daughter's trust... you cannot be in denial of anything that went on in her own life that might be somewhat or all of a cause for this thing to be happening now? Do you see what I'm saying. I'm NOT suggesting that your daughter grew up in anything but a loving home, i'm telling you that i was not, and I was unable to talk to my mother, or ever trust her again, because she was in denial about her martyring herself to my father. You see what i mean? Is there any reason (large or small) before you begin working on her, that you think your daughter might not be able to trust you and what you have to say explicitly?  Because if your daughter did grow up in a good home, or if you've admitted and apologized for allowing abuse (helping her to heal) and have proven yourself not to be in denial of any sorts, you are the best person to help get through to her. And i'd love to try to help you do that. Liz

[Positively12]

I should mention my daughter is completely in denial and takes up for her husband re: this matter.  As of yesterday she is not speaking to me because I told her she needs to really open her eyes to this and what is happening.  

[Positively12]

Yes my grandson is very confused... A year ago I had to take my grandson to the hospital... My dad was staying with me after and accident and had dropped on of his pills on the floor and my grandson swallowed it... When I saw this "gunk" foaming out of his mouth and didn't see anything on the floor and shined a flashlight down his throat and didn't see anything, I called his pediatrician and they told me to IMMEDIATELY go to the nearest emergency room and they would have poison control standing by... to make a long story short... I called my daughter at work and she said hold on and hung up... she called me back and said "Mom you have to go back home... _________(her husband) said he would pick him up and observe him for the night... Needless to say my daughter did not come to the ER for about 1-1/2 hours until her husband got off work, called me four times on the way to the hospital and told me to go back home... I admitted her son to ER did all the paperwork.. docs kept asking me where parents were... When they arrived later Docs had already pumped his tummy and were stabilizing him... very traumatic experience!  My SIL came walking in to ER like a crazy man and said "How dare you take MY son to the hospital without asking first... I would have observed him tonight and could do whatever doctors could"... the doc looked at him and said "And sir, you may have been observing a dead baby in the morning, the grandmother did exactly what she should have done!"  It was a horrible experience, one of many, but that was the first time I saw how afraid my daughter was of her husband and it is getting worse to the present time when he is telling my g-son "Don't make me get mean with you"... My daughter is pulling away from me, doesn't want to hear it.. and goes along with her husband on EVERYTHING putting her child 2nd to him... I want to help my daughter but she is unwilling to listen... that's how brainwashed she is!  My grandson now at 2 years and 4 months is receiving mostly orders and harshness from his daddy and not the love he needs... I completely believe he is capable of violence towards him AND my daughter...

[Jinx_777]

your poor grandson is probably confused as heck.  he sounds very STRANGE.
as a mom, i don't understand why your daughter just stood there.  i seen  where you said she was scared of him, but as a mother, she needs to defend her son at any cost.
i have left the person i was with the second they showed ANY signs of abusive behavior towards me or my kids.  if they hit my child, they got a whooping from me on the way out the door.  not condoning domestic violence, but i made it very clear what would happen if they EVER touched my child again during any visitation they may get.  

[Positively12]

Hello again,
I have been re-reading and thinking about your post while my grandson is sleeping here in my house (I watch him three days a week sometimes more)... and I wanted to ask you what else you think might help me to "get through" to my daughter... I have talked to her and even researched information for her to read, and discussed my SIL's background with and told her I'm concerned his behavior is rubbing off on her son... this has been an going problem for years... abuse of my daughter before their 2-year-old son was even born...I'm more scared than I let on...

[Positively12]

I meant to say in above text my daughter said "You don't know what you're talking about!"  

[Positively12]

Hi!  It's interesting that you brought up what my SIL's background was... I have found out that he actually was raised in an abusive relationship himself... his father was emotionally with some sort of physical abusive and a womanizer having no respect for my SIL's mother at all... She continued to stay with him and therefore he has lost respect for women and is exhibiting (I believe) extreme anger towards my grandson because of his upbringing...

[Positively12]

Thank you so much for your comments and advice... very well spoken!  I have now spoken to my daughter about this abuse towards her and her son and she stated to me "You don' t know what I'm taking about" Aw but I do... I have also suffered and thankfully come through a very abusive relationship myself, but I will continue to try and get through to my daughter... Her personality has changed so much showing her complete fear of her husband, and as I stated in my first post my grandson is now showing extreme fear of his father... I still have hope :)

[Nighthawk61]

In my mind there is no fine line between abuse and being a "big bully". Being a big bully, is abusive. Whether or not your SIL has physically hit either you daughter or your grandson, the emotional abuse can cause as much damage to what should be their happy lives, as physical abuse. This is not successful parenting, by either party. You daughter doesn't have the luxury to be a MARTYR to this BEAST.. (I know the mentality VERY well). She has a son to protect. As it stands, he will either copy his father and become abusive himself, or he will be trodden over and used and abused. Neither should be an option for any mother. If this man is simply copying the abuse, it doesn't really matter. If it were his original thought to be abusive, or if he came to it all on his own. Whatever the reason, he needs to not be allowed to misuse his position and make lives miserable. it doesn't make sense when there are so many good men out there, that would be in heaven , but for a family. You need to get it through to your daughter that she doesn't have the right to MARTYR her son or herself, and nor is she doing anyone any good ENABLING this man's behavior. I've lived with emotional turned physical abuse during my childhood and my first marriage. It does not get better until the victim evolves enough to remove themselves from the abuse. The abuser may have a chance of rehabilitation once they become aware that there is something dramatically wrong enough with their behavior that would warrant them losing their family. I hope you can get through to your daughter before too much damage is inflicted on this little boy.

[coryreply719]

Hi there. Thank you for your post. This is a very delicate situation.

Based on what you shared, it certainly sounds like there is problematic behavior going on here. Do you know what kind of home life your SIL grew up in? Was his father around? Was his dad loving and compassionate? Or was he overbearing, abusive, ect?