I was wondering if any of you would refuse immunizations

[chickymama]

for your newborn?? I'm expecting a child in Sept. and have been struggling with this. People feel very strongly either way and tend to attack.( Not to mention the laws make it difficult to refuse them) I just want to do what is best and since my main concern is Autism I thought this would be a good place to ask. I hope no one minds me barging in to your site to ask...thanks

[Sally44]

This is such a difficult subject isn't it.  I find I agree with both sides of the argument!  I understand parents concerns, especially if they have autism already in the family (or other disorders) as, although I don't think vaccinations cause it, I am on the fence as to whether I think vaccines (or other environmental causes) may trigger it in some circumstances with some children.  Having said that I immunised my first child, and my son had his first round of shots and was okay, but with the later shots he was so tactile sensitive we had to get me, a doctor and the nurse to pin him down.  And they said as he had had his first MMR shots it wasn't worth putting through having the booster.  I think we need earlier diagnosis or red flagging to separate any apparent connection between the vaccine and ASDs.  And any decision a parent makes they have to live with the consequences of that.

[SueNYC]

Not really - our family is filled with Apie types - so we weren't that shocked when it happened.  Engineering families should avoid each other at all costs.  Anyway, my sister is an ICU doc and she has called it on many babies that didn't rcive their pertussis shots.  My sister's family all got pertussis from a family in Westchester that caused an outbreak of over 160 children.  Her friend had just had a newborn and the child had to go on antibiotics.  But it gets worse, she was a kindergarten teacher and the whole class was given a choice by CDC - go on antibiotics ot have a two week vacation if they weren't immunized.  Now she has a giant granoma in her chest.  Anyway, once the immunization rate drops below 10% you cna't rely on herd immunmity - the non-vaccinators are basically on a free ride with the rest.

My friend skipped her third after her second was diagnosed autistic and her thir came out he ame way.  I think there is another environmental factor at work - we were all living in Jersey City in beautiful highrises - and three of us in our playgroup (out of 15) had children on the spectrum - I wonder if all the construction in the area affected it or maybe it is something in the food supply.

[Candleman]

i should have added...  we refused the meningococcol-B vaccine for our youngest..   and only after we refused it were we told "its ok..  its being phased out anyway"

dont pump stuff into your kids body..  you dont know what it is.

[Candleman]

yes

of our three sons only the middle child had the full dose all at once (as reccomonded)
(inclusive of the Meningococcol-B vaccine)
he is the only one showing signs of autism.

he have since heard that vaccine is being done away with here.


vaccines are good.. they do help allot!  BUT   too much at once is a bad idea.

[Sally44]

I agree and I know myself that my son was already showing signs of autism (ridgid behaviour, tantrums echolalia) before he was vaccinated, however he did have eye contact, social interaction and social expressions/gestures that he then went on to lose between the age of 2-3.  (My older child has also been vaccinated).  And it may be the case for all children that receive a diagnosis of autism, that they were infact born with it.  But there does seem to be some children that suddenly regress and lose abilities they had.  I suppose I'm just saying that doctors give advice on the current information they have.  I am convinced that some environmental factors can be one factor (but not the sole solution) for some people with autism.   It could be on top of a genetic weakness/predispositon.  If there is already a cluster of certain conditions in the family then any child already has a higher risk of also having one of those cluster conditions.  At present the implications of the wider family history is not taken into account by doctors. The other option is for diagnosis to be made earlier or, at least for some children to be red flagged for continued developmental evaluation.  I know there is some research into movement differences in babies that then go on to show symptoms of autistic spectrum disorder.  It would be helpful if all new parents were given information about signs to look for in their child and that these were routinely followed up in post natal visits.  From my experience I was already highlighting my concerns to my GP/Health Care Visitor from around age 3 and was told that I was worrying unnecessarily as they did not recognise his symptoms as being autism even though they are classic autistic symptoms (tantrums, echolalia).  So I do feel the system let me and my son down as he should have been receiving support about 5 years earlier to when it started to be provided.

[walternowotny]

Most(I believe 90%) of kids get sufficient protection from just one MMR vaccine(given at 1 year of age).We give 2nd dose to protect remaining 10(or so)%.
Alternative would be checking titres on all children(very expensive and not practical).
As far as autism is concerned all indications are it is genetically predisposed and it has absolutely nothing to do with vaccinations.People(and organizations) who spread misinformations about vaccines are pushing their agenda and do not have kids benefit in mind.
Walter

[Sally44]

I have had whooping cough and mumps as a child.  I understand what you are saying about the risks.  But as a parent all you can do is try to make a decision.  I have many things in my family including developmental delay, OCD, mental illness, learning difficulties, eating disorders, autism.  When I first approached doctors because I wanted to start a family I was told that there was no increased risk because I had these conditions in my family.  Now I have a diagnosis of autism and the professionals are now telling me that the more conditions you have within the family the more chance there is that any child born will have some kind of difficulty.  So professional doctors change their mind and cannot give you, me or anyone 100% guarantee that the information they are working on will not change.  I know that vaccinations are given at that age because it is a time when children become more open to infections.  But it is also the same developmental age that children first begin to show noticeable signs of autism.  That is why people have made the connection, rightly or wrongly, we don't really know.  So I was just saying that it would be helpful to be able to see the signs of autism 'before' the injection so that the vaccination is not blamed or to rule it out.  My son has had the first MMR injection, but not the booster and my doctors have advised me 'that it isn't worth taking the risk' and giving him the second injection.  So I am following professionals advice and not making it up myself.

[walternowotny]

Postponing vaccinations doesn't make any sence.You are leaving your baby unprotected against diseases at the most vulnerable time.
Organisms like Pneumococcus and HIB affect mostly babies and small children.Pertussis(whooping cough) is very widespread among adults(they have a chronic cough...Chinese call perrtussis 100 day cough... and since they do not get"whoop" they go undetected).How do you know that person coughing next to you in church,bus or doctor's office doesn't have a pertussis?Pertussis in an unimmunized baby is a very severe and sometimes fatal disease....
Postponing vaccinations makes as much sence as waiting few years until you put your child in a car seat...
Walter

[Sally44]

If you are that concerned about vaccinations, you could do as I suggested and wait until any child is school age.  Any symptoms of an autistic spectrum disorder should be showing by then.  And I completely agree with those who have posted who are on the spectrum, that they would prefer not to get these diseases and would prefer to be vaccinated.  For many, autism is who they are.  It is more difficult to make decisions considering a child who may have severe autism, especially if you already have autism in the family, because if there is a genetic weakness leading to environmental factors triggering it, then you may already have a family predisposition towards autism..  And it is parents who have to make the decision and live with their decision.  Of course, this is all suposition, because we don't have any clear idea of what causes autism.  And because of fear, there are so many children not vaccinated that there is every possibility of not vaccinating a child, they get mumps and are unable to have children.  But I do think it would be easier to decide if the vaccination were given at a later date.  Most children are picked up in nursery/pre-school with autistic behaviours.  If you did delay vaccinations for a couple of years it would be sensible to vaccinate them at a later date.

[halbashes]

I have autism (PDD-NOS), and I would rather be autistic than catch some horrible disease.  I don't really have an opinion as to whether my autism has anything to do with immunizations though.

[walternowotny]

There is absolutely no direct(or indirect) evidence that vaccinations and autism are related.
However there are numerous serious communicable diseases that can kill your baby and can be prevented by vaccinations:sepsis,meningitis,diptheria,whooping cough,tetanus to name just a few.
Also by not vaccinating your child you can jeopardize health of other children.
Do the right thing for your baby-vaccinate
Walter

[Sally44]

Yes, I also had mumps and whooping cough.  I think on the one hand drug companies seem to want to eliminate every kind of infection through drugs, when sometimes building up your own immune system is better.  I am concerned about the number of children not getting injections because some of them will get these diseases and it will affect their health, when the vaccine maybe perfectly safe to take.
I just became more concerned as things like 'Gulf War Syndrome' etc came out as well due, they suspect, to the amount of vaccines these soldiers were given.  And again, not all the soldiers got it, but some did.  Maybe it would be better to give these shots when the children are older and then we would already have concerns about our children regarding autism before they had the shots.  
On a different subject there has been some investigations into babies/toddlers movements that may give us better/earlier ways of diagnosing autism.

[MJIthewriter]

I meant to say grandma suffered the full blown effects of the full virus... She suffered through mumps and whooping cough.

[MJIthewriter]

I probably won't get the flu shot next year...just in case... (I did the last two years, and now because I've been reading up on the hype, I'm on a "witch hunt".  With that mentality, I'm sure to find a connection between my flu shots and any problems that may have occurred...

In that case it's rather unscientific because human perception is flawed, even an autistic perspective. (Supposedly many autistic people have really sharp memory.)
---------
I agree it can't hurt to make sure shots are 100% free of potential harmful chemicals. But as far as not getting shots..

How do you expect your children to be immunized by the viruses? Not all of those viruses are non-existent.

I guess my grandma said in her time, they just suffered through the full blown effects of the shot... My step grandpa went through rheumatic fever. It made him awfully sick and damaged his heart. He lived with a weak heart + pacemaker ever since. (Not to mention he was clearly aspergers in behavior!) We can’t forget the polio virus. Who hasn’t detected it in Europe since 1998, but that may not mean it’s gone.

I'm just wondering if that's where the anti-vaccine movement is heading. I'm not trying to be judgmental or supporting drug companies. I'm just concerned, that's all.

There's got to be a better way to get immunized than getting sick with the full virus...

[Arrynne]

I have decided that when I have children that they would not be given any type of shots. I have a 15 year old brother with severe autism. His development in all areas was perfectly normal until he was 2 years old (symptoms started 2 months after a series of shots) Then he started refusing to make eye contact, stopped talking, and basically became completely disinterested in everything that he used to love. My decision is mainly a just in case decision, also I see no point in putting extra stuff in a childs body that they dont nessessary need.

[Sally44]

My son did get the MMR jab.  He was diagnosed with autism when he was 6.  I did not give him his MMR booster injection because, however irrational, I was afraid of making the situation worse.  
Alot of parents start to notice differences in their children at around age 3, and I think this is coincidence because at that age children are beginning to become more social and therefore any difference in your child becomes more noticeable.
I don't think the MMR jab was responsible for my son being autistic.  I can look back now and see signs from when he was a baby eg. fear at being held by anyone but me, touch sensitive, repetitive behaviours etc.  So why did I refuse the booster?  Well we did go to get it and my son was so anxious/upset about it that we had to pin him down.  And I just wasn't happy with it.  He was obviously highly distressed and in pain.  I have talked with the doctors since and they say he does have some immunity.  But I think, although I don't think the MMR causes autism, I am a little worried about the number of vaccines that are put together into one shot and how anyones immune system copes with that.  My other child had the shots and was okay.

[Angela77]

The thimerisol has been out shots, except the flu shot, since 1999 and there has been a steady increase in the diagnosis of autism.  The Center for Disease Control and the American Academy of Pediatrics have both stated that there is not a correlation between shots and autism.  Just as an aside, a friend of mine has twins.  They were both immunized at the same time, from the same batch of shots.  One twin has autism and one does not.  The safest thing is to get your child immunized.  I hope that helps.

[chickymama]

I'm sorry to hear about your son....I  wondered if there were cases of autism in children that hadn't been immunized, I guess so.(sigh) It's so hard to know what's best...thanks for responding

[NicolaMc]

I asked myself the same question and refused it for my two sons,but wait here's the full story. I have three children my eldest is nearly 8 and I got her immunized when she was a baby. When my son however was born nearly two years later, because of all the controversary surrounding immunization and autism I didn't get him and his younger brother immunized. I thought I was playing it safe. Now 5/6 years on my yongest son is being assesed for autism. He didn't get immunized and yet still I believe he is autistic.
Plus the whole worry was (thimerosal), a mercury content (I think) they had in the immunization, which has subsequently been taken out.
Hope this helps.