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4 Year old blaming his brain for bad behavior
My 4 year old son, who is a handful at times, is giving me a hard time to go to school. He cries his eyes out and when I bring him to class he cries for me not to leave him, I am not sure why he thinks I'm not coming back for him. Also, his behavior in class is horrendous. He is constantly touching other children, running around, screaming, biting people..and the list goes on. I am more nervous as to why he is doing these things as he says that his brain is telling him to do these things. I am wondering if ADHD or ODD or maybe even a mental issue is causing these problems. I am also wondering if it has something to do with our other children, as we have a 2 year old and 6 mth old. Please help! I don't know what to do!
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
This likely has little or anything to do with the siblings. Does he display ADHD? Only an evaluation can determine that. And, given the severity of the behavior, an evaluation really is in order. Try to arrange this right away. If you are not certain where to turn for such assessment, ask your son's pediatrician. Also, you can request some help at school, because he may require a specialized program.
My son did these things (with the exception of biting) at 4 in preschool. He ended up having sensory integration disorder and is a sensory seeker. He was evaluated by an occupational therapist and does therapy once a week as well as a full diet of activities that are like play at home. In a year and a half, he is like another child for the most part. He is doing really well and handling school and life so much better. We've tried to encourage him to express how his sensory makes him feel----- he says his brain tells him to do things and he can't stop. Your son sounds very smart for his age and may be saying exactly the truth. Good luck.
Thank you very much for your post! Friends and family are always commenting on how smart my son is. I never doubted his intellegence I just recently started getting frustrated with his actions. I will take him to an occupational therapist for an evaluation.
Thank you once again!
Thank you once again!
Sorry this is such a long post... I cut it and pasted it here (I originally posted it for another user regarding a question she had about her daughter) Maybe it applies to your son as well, maybe not, but something to think about. I have since cut and pasted this post to a few other users who might benefit from this info but your situation sounds a lot closer to the one I've gone through. Although our child did not act on these thoughts, they tormented our child daily for weeks at a time and then seemed to disappear as suddenly as they started. The poor kid would tell my wife and I that they hated their brain because it was having "bad thoughts." It was never " 'I' just had a bad thought," it was always " 'My brain' just had a bad thought," or " 'My brain' keeps telling me....." Our child didn't hear voices or anything (we asked)... just that "my mind" is saying to do things. They were thoughts that would just come out of the blue but continuously throughout the day over several weeks and then just stop. All would be well, you'd hold your breath and pray it wouldn't start up again but a few months later it'd come back. It is very scary and it breaks your heart. One thing I forgot to mention in the below post was that our child did have some episodes of severe separation anxiety, which we chalked up to being young and in preschool but nothing else occurred at that time that we knew of. I always thought OCD was just obsession with washing hands, repeating paterns etc, and never knew it could also be involuntary thoughts. You should google "Morbid OCD", "Intrusive thought OCD", "Bad thought OCD" and "PANDAs." [Google "PANDAS with the word "STREP" otherwise you get mostly articles about fuzzy bears from China :) ] Here is the post I have left for other users who have asked about some child behavior issues----->
<------ [continued from above post]
Maybe something to consider (actually two things) regarding your daughter: PANDAs and allergies. If your child has been exposed to STREP recently, there may be a chance that your child's own strep-antibodies are attacking the ganglia in the brain, which results in these actions (it also can result in OCD and really, really bad thoughts.) The antibodies somehow mistake the ganglia for the strep infection. If you think your child has strep or has been exposed.... get a Titer count test. This is how the Drs. tell if your child has strep and it shows the level of strep-antibodies in your child's system. Your child may show absolutely zero signs of STREP or illness but still have it. Also, peanut butter, dairy, wheat, asthma medications may set off behavior issues or OCD or exacerbate the effect of the strep reaction. Good luck finding a Dr. who believes in PANDAs, most don't. But any Dr. worth their salt will have at least heard/read about it. Ours said he didn't think it was a valid diagnosis but could not explain away the documented correlation and had no comment on the accepted diagnosis' of CHOREA (St. Vitus’ Dance.) Or strep related heart problems (strep antibodies attacking the heart by mistake causing damage) that can arise after contracting a strep infection. As far as the peanut butter thing goes... I have no actual proof, only what I consider amazing results after we stopped eating it in our house. Allergies to peanuts do not have to be lethal. They can be mild and any physical side effects can go unnoticed, but who knows what turmoil it is wreaking within the body. One indication of an allergic reaction is called the "allergic shiner". They are light to heavy dark rings around the eyes. Many times it's attributed to lack of sleep, but it is actually the result of an allergic reaction. Also your child might get any itchy throat or itchy roof of the mouth after eating peanut butter or other foods.... but it may be very mild so they might not tell you. I have read on-line about reactions to some asthma medications that are unofficially linked to morbid (bad thought) OCD. Night terrors, bad dreams, sleep walking, bed wetting, and/or obsession with frequently going to the bathroom is also associated with PANDAs. I am not a doctor and can only relay to you what I have read. I read that PANDAs is usually noticed in children about the age of 7 but that it can occur earlier. Children don't (or can't) always articulate what is going on with themselves so earlier occurrences of this tragic condition may not be brought to the parents' attention until around that age. What I've read did say though that it is associated with children who have not yet hit puberty but does not mean it can't occur later in life (teens.) There is a book out, written by a mother who's son was almost institutionalized due to OCD. His OCD was more of the "traditional" type... not the intrusive thought type per se. He developed it out of the blue around the age of 11 and after a year (or two, I don't remember) he became so obsessed with performing certain rituals and paterns that he was essentially non-functinal. His mother had been video taping his actions to show doctors in an attempt to get help. She was at her wits end and ready to have him put in an institution when someone asked if he'd been tested for STREP. He hadn't but sure enough came back positive and was put on antibiotics. The antibiotics worked almost miracuously and he returned to normal (though at 18 says that if he feels any urges coming on he goes back on the anti-biotics and is "cured"/feels normal. I think the name of the book is "Saving Sammy, Curing the Boy Who Caught OCD." I also read an article in the Chicago Tribune last week about a Loyola University student who out of the blue had an auto-immune disease that left her unable to walk and see properly. One of the Doctors' theories was that it may have been triggered by a virus which caused her antibodies (to the virus) to attack the brain. She is still recovering after extensive treatments but making good improvement. I know this is a ridiculously long post and it may not have anything to do with your daughter's condition but I just wanted to let you (and anyone else who might be going through similar child issues) know that some child mental health issues may actually be caused by the body's reaction to some stimulus or virus. Anyone reading this in hope of finding information (or just plain "I'm in the same boat as you" support) should consider allergic reactions or auto-immune response to blood issues/antibodies before placing a child on medication. I hope this information is of help to you or another reader and that your child's "episodes" are few and far between. I know this can be a nightmare. You feel helpless and afraid... you want to do the right thing but don't want Drs. to label your child as "menatlly ill." I wonder how many children suffer from behavior problems (mild or severe) or Morbid (bad-thought) OCD due to food/drug allergies or STREP. More than we know I'm sure, because I believe most parents keep it to themselves (to keep their child from being labeled) and they hope it will go away on it's own. There seems to be little research on this issue and even less discussion within the medical/pyschiatric communities. I have a family member who recently (about 2 years ago) obtained a masters in child psychology and hadn't even heard of PANDAs and had no idea what might have been going on with my child - ruled out food allergies too... immediately suggested psych meds (we refused!) Except for one reoccurrence last March, my child has been symptom free for two years now. The change? It all went away (over-night) when we completely removed peanut butter from our child's diet (that included foods that were processed in plants that handle peanuts and Chinese food as many places use peanut oil in their woks.) The one re-occurrence last March you might ask? We had our child tested for STREP which was positive, went on antibiotics and was back to normal...no more bad thoughts, no more intrusive thoughts. Coinicdence? Maybe, but the timing and positive results we've had seem to indicate there might be something to this.
One more thing, which is very important to remember. The quick/same day result STREP test that they do at the doctor's office came back negative (on two different occasions) for our child. We insisted -and got some static from the doctor I might add- that they send it to a lab for the more extensive TITER test and guess what, it came back positive! As I said before, I am not a doctor and I can only relate in this post what I recall and what I recall reading. Hope it helps and God Bless.
Maybe something to consider (actually two things) regarding your daughter: PANDAs and allergies. If your child has been exposed to STREP recently, there may be a chance that your child's own strep-antibodies are attacking the ganglia in the brain, which results in these actions (it also can result in OCD and really, really bad thoughts.) The antibodies somehow mistake the ganglia for the strep infection. If you think your child has strep or has been exposed.... get a Titer count test. This is how the Drs. tell if your child has strep and it shows the level of strep-antibodies in your child's system. Your child may show absolutely zero signs of STREP or illness but still have it. Also, peanut butter, dairy, wheat, asthma medications may set off behavior issues or OCD or exacerbate the effect of the strep reaction. Good luck finding a Dr. who believes in PANDAs, most don't. But any Dr. worth their salt will have at least heard/read about it. Ours said he didn't think it was a valid diagnosis but could not explain away the documented correlation and had no comment on the accepted diagnosis' of CHOREA (St. Vitus’ Dance.) Or strep related heart problems (strep antibodies attacking the heart by mistake causing damage) that can arise after contracting a strep infection. As far as the peanut butter thing goes... I have no actual proof, only what I consider amazing results after we stopped eating it in our house. Allergies to peanuts do not have to be lethal. They can be mild and any physical side effects can go unnoticed, but who knows what turmoil it is wreaking within the body. One indication of an allergic reaction is called the "allergic shiner". They are light to heavy dark rings around the eyes. Many times it's attributed to lack of sleep, but it is actually the result of an allergic reaction. Also your child might get any itchy throat or itchy roof of the mouth after eating peanut butter or other foods.... but it may be very mild so they might not tell you. I have read on-line about reactions to some asthma medications that are unofficially linked to morbid (bad thought) OCD. Night terrors, bad dreams, sleep walking, bed wetting, and/or obsession with frequently going to the bathroom is also associated with PANDAs. I am not a doctor and can only relay to you what I have read. I read that PANDAs is usually noticed in children about the age of 7 but that it can occur earlier. Children don't (or can't) always articulate what is going on with themselves so earlier occurrences of this tragic condition may not be brought to the parents' attention until around that age. What I've read did say though that it is associated with children who have not yet hit puberty but does not mean it can't occur later in life (teens.) There is a book out, written by a mother who's son was almost institutionalized due to OCD. His OCD was more of the "traditional" type... not the intrusive thought type per se. He developed it out of the blue around the age of 11 and after a year (or two, I don't remember) he became so obsessed with performing certain rituals and paterns that he was essentially non-functinal. His mother had been video taping his actions to show doctors in an attempt to get help. She was at her wits end and ready to have him put in an institution when someone asked if he'd been tested for STREP. He hadn't but sure enough came back positive and was put on antibiotics. The antibiotics worked almost miracuously and he returned to normal (though at 18 says that if he feels any urges coming on he goes back on the anti-biotics and is "cured"/feels normal. I think the name of the book is "Saving Sammy, Curing the Boy Who Caught OCD." I also read an article in the Chicago Tribune last week about a Loyola University student who out of the blue had an auto-immune disease that left her unable to walk and see properly. One of the Doctors' theories was that it may have been triggered by a virus which caused her antibodies (to the virus) to attack the brain. She is still recovering after extensive treatments but making good improvement. I know this is a ridiculously long post and it may not have anything to do with your daughter's condition but I just wanted to let you (and anyone else who might be going through similar child issues) know that some child mental health issues may actually be caused by the body's reaction to some stimulus or virus. Anyone reading this in hope of finding information (or just plain "I'm in the same boat as you" support) should consider allergic reactions or auto-immune response to blood issues/antibodies before placing a child on medication. I hope this information is of help to you or another reader and that your child's "episodes" are few and far between. I know this can be a nightmare. You feel helpless and afraid... you want to do the right thing but don't want Drs. to label your child as "menatlly ill." I wonder how many children suffer from behavior problems (mild or severe) or Morbid (bad-thought) OCD due to food/drug allergies or STREP. More than we know I'm sure, because I believe most parents keep it to themselves (to keep their child from being labeled) and they hope it will go away on it's own. There seems to be little research on this issue and even less discussion within the medical/pyschiatric communities. I have a family member who recently (about 2 years ago) obtained a masters in child psychology and hadn't even heard of PANDAs and had no idea what might have been going on with my child - ruled out food allergies too... immediately suggested psych meds (we refused!) Except for one reoccurrence last March, my child has been symptom free for two years now. The change? It all went away (over-night) when we completely removed peanut butter from our child's diet (that included foods that were processed in plants that handle peanuts and Chinese food as many places use peanut oil in their woks.) The one re-occurrence last March you might ask? We had our child tested for STREP which was positive, went on antibiotics and was back to normal...no more bad thoughts, no more intrusive thoughts. Coinicdence? Maybe, but the timing and positive results we've had seem to indicate there might be something to this.
One more thing, which is very important to remember. The quick/same day result STREP test that they do at the doctor's office came back negative (on two different occasions) for our child. We insisted -and got some static from the doctor I might add- that they send it to a lab for the more extensive TITER test and guess what, it came back positive! As I said before, I am not a doctor and I can only relate in this post what I recall and what I recall reading. Hope it helps and God Bless.
Thank you very much as well! The really bad behavior only started when he went to school before that he was a normal 4 year old doing the normal "boy" things, nothing that made me think he had any "issues". Our household has been sick lately, due to him bringing home colds, I will ask his doctor to take a look at him. I want to know all my options and probable causes before hand so I don't feel like I have to accept the first diagnosis that is given to my son; as I have noticed a spike in children being diagnosed with ADHD.
Thank you once again for your input, it was greatly appreciated!
Thank you once again for your input, it was greatly appreciated!
Nobody wants their child "labeled". Whether it's the correct diagnosis or misdiagnosis, once it's out there you feel there's always an asterisk next to their name. I also feel the ADHD diagnosis is thrown around way to much, sort of a catch-all. PANDAS may not be the answer (it might be too easy if it is) but it's something to consider. Especially as kids are exposed to flu, colds, strep at a higher rate once they start school. Cut and paste the below link.... an interesting read. Push for the strep test when you see the doctor and see if there's a way to get one yourself. My understanding is that your child doesn't have to have the infection, just exposure to someone who does can trigger the antibodies. Like I said this may very well not be your answer (or not even a piece of a larger puzzle) but something to check out and eliminate. If you or your doctor don't think Pandas/strep is a factor, maybe over a period of time try removing different foods from his diet in different intervals and see if there is an decrease in his negative thoughts/behaviors. Good luck and please post any updates.
Sounds like JimH68 has some really good advice.I think u r both correct. I think all options should be used b4 putting our kids on meds. I am 40 yr. & ADHD. All 3 of my kids are ADHD. 2 are on meds. I cried & cried for 2 months trying to decide on putting my kids on meds.Ultimately we made the decision to medicate. My boys do well. It was the correct choice for them at this time. I thinking having children tested for ADHD to rule it out is a must if the symptoms are there. It"s painless & if they r, well not all kids need meds. some respond to diet changes. Our daughter has done well till now. she's 15 & now needs to try medication for when she is at school. I hope ur family finds the answers u need.It is such a tough process for all. Best wishes ,
PASLEY424
PASLEY424
Sounds like JimH68 has some really good advice.I think u r both correct. I think all options should be used b4 putting our kids on meds. I am 40 yr. & ADHD. All 3 of my kids are ADHD. 2 are on meds. I cried & cried for 2 months trying to decide on putting my kids on meds.My son who was 3 1/2 at the time along w/ my older boy would say their brain told them to do things. Ultimately we made the decision to medicate. My boys do well. It was the correct choice for them at this time. I thinking having children tested for ADHD to rule it out is a must if the symptoms are there. It"s painless & if they r, well not all kids need meds. some respond to diet changes. Our daughter has done well till now. she's 15 & now needs to try medication for when she is at school. I hope ur family finds the answers u need.It is such a tough process for all. Best wishes ,
PASLEY424
PASLEY424
Thanks. I was accused by another poster on this site of sending bulk posts and selling pandas. Not my intention. It would be nice if we could say that all kids with emotional issues had pandas or food allergies because they are easier to control. I know that is not the case however. My intention was to spread some information around so that parents could do some research on their own and if their child's symptoms fall within the realm of either, they could present it to a medical professional for further investigation. These could be two more things to rule out while walking the long road towards helpful treatment. I don't see a lot on allergies creating mood disorders or on pandas. I believe most people that come to this site never post and are looking for insight and maybe success stories or at the very least some kind of idea as to where they should start. If any info I have thrown out here helps at least one child and their family then mission accomplished I guess. Searching the web is unfortunately the way I had to find help for my child and not from initial contact with medical professionals. Information is a powerful tool and combined with professional help, an answer doesn't have to elude you. I too believe testing for ADHD is in order here. As far as labels go, I was also told (by the same user) that I surely must have insulted readers with the comment that "no one wants their child labeled." Again, not my intention. To me (but maybe it's just me) labels are bad and diagnosis are good. The two are completely different. Labels are incorrect diagnosis and carry stereotypes.... Diagnosis however are the gateway towards helpful treatment. (As long as the diagnosis is correct.) Good luck to all and God Bless.
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