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12 year old shot by police in Cleveland
I went to the site about Mike Brown and I found this story about a 12 year old boy in Cleveland who was in a park playing with an air gun/BB gun. In the story NBC said someone called the police and told dispatch that it might just be a toy. The video is so upsetting to me I wanted to share it to see what others might think. I thought about this a lot before posting. Any thoughts or ideas?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-cleveland-cop-shoot-12-year-old-tamir-rice-n256656
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-cleveland-cop-shoot-12-year-old-tamir-rice-n256656
When I was a kid, we played "cops and robbers", 'good guys vs. bad guys" and "cowboys and Indians' with replicas that looked very much like real guns. Because of truly innocent kids getting killed by cops holding what could be confused as a real gun, toy gun manufacturers starting making their guns look different from real guns.
What we did not do as kids was stand on the street pulling "what could be a fake gun" on passers by. You just don't do that the same as you don't yell fire in a theater.
What we did not do as kids was stand on the street pulling "what could be a fake gun" on passers by. You just don't do that the same as you don't yell fire in a theater.
Even as a kid before they had all kinds of colors to make sure they don't look real (as we see in this case was removed), I knew well enough not to point a toy gun at people.
I understand that it's a split second decision, but it should also only take a split second to register that you're dealing with a child and the possibility of a toy gun, so you have 2 split second decisions to make... Neither would I want to be a cop!!!
I'll still go back and put some of this squarely on parents who are letting their kids run around with toy guns, not teaching them the dangers of pointing them at people, letting them watch movies that make it seem glamorous or exciting to be pulling a gun in and out of your pants like a hot shot, etc. This is what kids are learning in today's world and what other behavior can we expect from them?
I'll still go back and put some of this squarely on parents who are letting their kids run around with toy guns, not teaching them the dangers of pointing them at people, letting them watch movies that make it seem glamorous or exciting to be pulling a gun in and out of your pants like a hot shot, etc. This is what kids are learning in today's world and what other behavior can we expect from them?
It is a split second decision to possibly lose your life or take a life. I do not envy police and glad I never went into that line of work.
I understand how some people may think that the cop may have been hasty, but I also understand that it is no cops job to go get shot at work. They have a split second to react. Hypothetical, but if that kid had a real gun and the cop took his gun off because he was dealing with "a kid", the cop could have been killed. It gets worse if the kid kills the unarmed cop and rampages and kills other people.
The complaint then becomes "how come this cop didn't do something else?". Its a weird cycle.... Things are often over analyzed. Yup, there are bad cops out there and nobody wants them gone more than I do. The over whelming majority of cops are good, hard working people who care about everyone and want to help. Good cop, bad cop... they both recieve the same training and it is based on years and years of experience from the instructors and laws....
The complaint then becomes "how come this cop didn't do something else?". Its a weird cycle.... Things are often over analyzed. Yup, there are bad cops out there and nobody wants them gone more than I do. The over whelming majority of cops are good, hard working people who care about everyone and want to help. Good cop, bad cop... they both recieve the same training and it is based on years and years of experience from the instructors and laws....
Thank you, Brice, you said, what I was trying to say further up in the thread about parents letting their kids run around with toy guns, pointing them at people and everyone seemed to space that off... In today's world, you can't let your kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews or anyone run around pointing ANY kind of gun at anyone, under any circumstances.
If the police reacted (read shot the child) that quickly (within seconds), it seems that officer might have hasty? That's just MY thought.
If the police reacted (read shot the child) that quickly (within seconds), it seems that officer might have hasty? That's just MY thought.
"It doesn't add up" is correct. It would take longer than 2 seconds to get out of the car and be in a position to fire a gun accurately, and it would certainly take longer to say... 3 times... "get your hands up".
Truly a tragedy that a 12 year old lost his life in this fashion. One sure way this kid would still be around, having fun with all of the other 12 years olds around that neighborhood would be by not standing around on a corner pulling anything that resembled a gun on passers by.
The very first things anyone should know about handling a gun, real or "fake" is, there are no fake guns. First rule of handling a gun is, you don't point a gun at anything you don't intend on destroying.
This is real simple, people. And hopefully Dee, if this could be your nephew playing in a park, I would hope you don't let him run around with anything that looks like a gun. its a very bad practice.
Truly a tragedy that a 12 year old lost his life in this fashion. One sure way this kid would still be around, having fun with all of the other 12 years olds around that neighborhood would be by not standing around on a corner pulling anything that resembled a gun on passers by.
The very first things anyone should know about handling a gun, real or "fake" is, there are no fake guns. First rule of handling a gun is, you don't point a gun at anything you don't intend on destroying.
This is real simple, people. And hopefully Dee, if this could be your nephew playing in a park, I would hope you don't let him run around with anything that looks like a gun. its a very bad practice.
The police officer who fatally shot a 12-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun fired within 1 ½ to 2 seconds of pulling up in his cruiser, police said Wednesday. During those few moments, he ordered the youngster three times to put up his hands, they said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tamir-rice-shooting-officer-shot-12-year-old-boy-within-2-seconds-1.2850452
How did the officer both shoot the boy within 2 seconds of driving up and also tell him three times to put his hands up ? It doesn't' add up.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tamir-rice-shooting-officer-shot-12-year-old-boy-within-2-seconds-1.2850452
How did the officer both shoot the boy within 2 seconds of driving up and also tell him three times to put his hands up ? It doesn't' add up.
It's a hard thing for a mother to take. I have a son just a little over a year younger than that boy. Kids don't always know what to do and do a lot of dumb things. This is the kind of thing you tell your kids about to warn them about how their actions could result a tragic ending. Sad.
Sorry I forgot to mention that I did not read the article first. I saw the video first so my perception will be different from someone who read the article
After reading the description of what happened I wonder when they had time to say anything to the child.
I did not think it was a black or white issue I thought it was a human issue. The child could have been my nephew in a park playing.
After reading the description of what happened I wonder when they had time to say anything to the child.
I did not think it was a black or white issue I thought it was a human issue. The child could have been my nephew in a park playing.
Have you seen the video? It is pretty horrific and does not match the description.
I understand that cops did what they felt they had to do. They couldn't take a chance on that gun being real.
In today's world, I have to wonder in cases like this, why parents are giving children guns of this type and letting them take them to playgrounds. And why aren't they teaching them that they shouldn't even be pointing fake guns at people. The little boy, most likely, was pretending to be a big shot, putting the gun in and out of his pants, pointing it at people. Surely, even a 12 yr old knows it's wrong to point any kind of gun at people?
Even the person who called 911 had no way of knowing for sure that the gun was a toy, even though he mentioned that it might be; nor did he know for sure that the person was a child.
It said the orange tip that identifies the gun as an air gun had been removed. Shouldn't there be a requirement to have that band incorporated into the material of the gun, so it "can't" be removed?
I'm glad the attorney for the family recognized that it's not a black and white issue. It is a very senseless loss of life.
In today's world, I have to wonder in cases like this, why parents are giving children guns of this type and letting them take them to playgrounds. And why aren't they teaching them that they shouldn't even be pointing fake guns at people. The little boy, most likely, was pretending to be a big shot, putting the gun in and out of his pants, pointing it at people. Surely, even a 12 yr old knows it's wrong to point any kind of gun at people?
Even the person who called 911 had no way of knowing for sure that the gun was a toy, even though he mentioned that it might be; nor did he know for sure that the person was a child.
It said the orange tip that identifies the gun as an air gun had been removed. Shouldn't there be a requirement to have that band incorporated into the material of the gun, so it "can't" be removed?
I'm glad the attorney for the family recognized that it's not a black and white issue. It is a very senseless loss of life.
The attorney for the family of the Cleveland youngster, who also was black, downplayed any possible racial connotations to the shooting.
"This is not a black and white issue. This is a right and wrong issue," attorney Tim Kucharski said.
Police were summoned to the scene outside a recreation center by a 911 caller who said someone -- possibly a juvenile -- was pointing a gun at people.
"There's a guy in there with a pistol, you know, it's probably fake, but he's like pointing it at everybody," the caller said, according to audio provided by CNN affiliate WEWS.
"He's sitting on a swing right now, but he's pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people," the caller said. "He's probably a juvenile, you know?"
When the two officers arrived, the boy did not point the weapon at them or otherwise threaten them, Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the Cleveland Division of Police told reporters early Sunday.
But he did reach for the weapon, Tomba said.
"The officers ordered him to stop and to show his hands and he went into his waistband and pulled out the weapon," he said.
Tomba showed reporters the weapon -- a large, black BB- or pellet-type replica gun resembling a semiautomatic pistol. An orange tip indicating the gun was an air gun had been removed, police said.
It wasn't clear if officers had been told the weapon was not a firearm, Officer Ali Pillow told CNN on Sunday.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/23/justice/cleveland-police-shooting/index.html
Rather the Dispatcher relayed that the gun could be a fake is irrelevant, it wouldn’t have changed anything. Unless the Cops knew beyond a shadow of doubt, the gun was a fake; they were going to follow procedures. I read when the story first came out, that he may have been confused by the cops yelling at him and was attempting to give them the gun. That’s when he made the mistake of reaching for it. It’s a sad situation but, my opinion is, the cops did what they felt they had to do.
"This is not a black and white issue. This is a right and wrong issue," attorney Tim Kucharski said.
Police were summoned to the scene outside a recreation center by a 911 caller who said someone -- possibly a juvenile -- was pointing a gun at people.
"There's a guy in there with a pistol, you know, it's probably fake, but he's like pointing it at everybody," the caller said, according to audio provided by CNN affiliate WEWS.
"He's sitting on a swing right now, but he's pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people," the caller said. "He's probably a juvenile, you know?"
When the two officers arrived, the boy did not point the weapon at them or otherwise threaten them, Deputy Chief Ed Tomba of the Cleveland Division of Police told reporters early Sunday.
But he did reach for the weapon, Tomba said.
"The officers ordered him to stop and to show his hands and he went into his waistband and pulled out the weapon," he said.
Tomba showed reporters the weapon -- a large, black BB- or pellet-type replica gun resembling a semiautomatic pistol. An orange tip indicating the gun was an air gun had been removed, police said.
It wasn't clear if officers had been told the weapon was not a firearm, Officer Ali Pillow told CNN on Sunday.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/23/justice/cleveland-police-shooting/index.html
Rather the Dispatcher relayed that the gun could be a fake is irrelevant, it wouldn’t have changed anything. Unless the Cops knew beyond a shadow of doubt, the gun was a fake; they were going to follow procedures. I read when the story first came out, that he may have been confused by the cops yelling at him and was attempting to give them the gun. That’s when he made the mistake of reaching for it. It’s a sad situation but, my opinion is, the cops did what they felt they had to do.
I've seen several articles and didn't post it because of all the conflict surrounding the Michael Brown incident. It's a total tragedy, but again, you have someone with a gun, who did not do what the police said.
This one is even worse, because it's a 12 year old and there are so many things that went wrong.
This one is even worse, because it's a 12 year old and there are so many things that went wrong.
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