OK, you got me, You win this one LOL
No, it's because anyone would go nuts if they had to live in Waco or was that wacko ?
“Sadly oppressed people are so often able to become the oppressors if they are not mindful of their actions and thoughts. “
Maybe that would explain what happened in Waco. The poor, misunderstood, oppressed, darlins.
Sadly oppressed people are so often able to become the oppressors if they are not mindful of their actions and thoughts.
I would like to think she was not advocating black on white violence but just pointing out the hypocrisy of many racists views.
I also ran across a reference in which Morrison cautions against the "misuse of history to diminish the expectations of the future"... isn't that exactly what she's doing?
Morrison know anything about the Tawana Brawley story? Outright lies led to at least 1 cop killing himself and others lives ruined.... it really doesn't matter though.
I'm not saying that Morrison's books wouldn't be good to read; I actually thought they might be, which is why I started doing some research on her and it all looked good until I came across that comment.
How is it going to help for a cop to shoot a white boy in the back? What will that prove? Absolutely nothing, except one more person will have lost a life.
There "have" been white men tried and convicted - 4 of them in the instance I posted above) for raping a black woman and she chooses to ignore that and I'm sure those aren't the only ones that have ever been convicted.
Those 2 things took away my interest in reading her books, at least for the moment.
I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't disjointed communities or anything else... what we're trying to figure out is how this is really still so connected to slavery, since none of the black people alive actually experienced slavery and aren't the ones who went through the devastating circumstances you speak of, nor are we, the white people alive today, the ones who committed those offenses against them...
As Brice pointed out, there are a lot of black people who have chosen to take advantage of the opportunities afforded them and they've achieved success, but they're looked down upon by, both black and white as being traitors to their race... that doesn't make sense.
The reason I mentioned Morrison's books is because of how they impacted me. That doesn't mean anyone else will feel the same.
For me, I realized that when you have a disjointed community, when you have the long time terror of having families pulled apart and the pain that happens from that, well, it doesn't heal easily. Of course, there are always the individuals that are able to overcome devastating circumstances.
Now, as far as prejudice goes, honestly ask yourself how you react when you see people dressed a certain way. Appearances do affect our judgements rationally or not.
While walking in Oakland one day, I came upon a group of young men/ older teens, dressed in those baggy pants taking up the entire sidewalk. My first reaction was to hesitate. Then I pulled my shoulders back and walked up to them, saying "excuse me" as I passed. They pulled to the side saying, " sorry ma'am". They could not have been more polite and I had no reason to be wary of them other than because of my own prejudice due to their dress. People, especially young people wear what is popular with their peers. I remind that to myself often~lol.
"In April 2015, speaking of the deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, and Walter Scott—three unarmed black men killed by white police officers—Morrison said "People keep saying, 'We need to have a conversation about race.' This is the conversation. I want to see a cop shoot a white unarmed teenager in the back. And I want to see a white man convicted for raping a black woman. Then when you ask me, 'Is it over?', I will say yes."[33]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison
I guess she doesn't believe white men have ever been convicted of raping a black woman...
Here's one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Jean_Owens
There were actually 4 men convicted and sentenced to life in prison for raping one black woman.
Thanks for recommending Toni Morrison books. I'll take a look at the library for one because I'd really like to find out more about how slavery impacts lives today since we are generations and generations removed from slavery.
I grew up with a lot of successful black people in my life. None of them came from households where they were told that they couldn't succeed in life because of slavery and I think that is the difference. Some people hold on to that notion or that belief and they just don't try. They are under the assumption that slavery is keeping them down today.
I'm not naïve and I know that race relations suck but we are 150 years away from slavery and the atrocities that came with it. A lot of black people know that. According to statista.com, there are 25.5 million black millionaires in this country. Same for Asian millionaires and we also treated Asians in this country pretty similar to how we treated blacks. In comparison (black millionaires 8% of the population, Asian millionaires 8% of the population) Hispanic millionaires make up 7% of the population.
Why is there not more success? Is it slavery? Did we enslave Hispanics? According to census.gov, Black people make up a bit over 13% of the nation's population, Asians make up 5.3% and Hispanic/Latino make up just over 17%. Make what you want of statistics, but if any ethnicity has a beef about "success" it should be the Latino group..... (above stats from census.gov)
I think there are too many people who've decided to hold on to slavery as a crutch in order to not succeed. I think that's tragic and I don't know why the success in these race groups isn't more widely celebrated within those communities. It just seems to me that if you are a successful black person, the black community labels you as an "Uncle Tom". What's the use in that?
Successful people of any race make decisions that got them where they are. Some good, some bad, but successful people own the decisions they make and plow forward. Is that "selling out"?
it seems like I could have a beef with white people. There are tens of millions of white people that appear more successful than I am. All of these people did a few things that I didn't do. They studied harder and got better grades. They went on to higher education. They made decisions I didn't make. (I do have a friend that is financially far better off than I am and his work ethic and being in the right place at the right time paid off big for him... kudos) I'm a product of the decisions I made. I am a product of the things I did and didn't do. That's not my mother's fault, your fault or the fault of anyone else.... just me.
I think that is applicable across the board, so I am interested in reading something from Toni Morrison in hopes that she can clear some of that up for me. Again, thanks for the lead.
I'm glad we could agree. I think if it weren't for the way the police were known for harassment within these communities there would be more compliance. But when you have people who are beaten for going with the police, and yes, being black and poor, it would make one reluctant to be compliant.
Not sure if this would help anyone else, but Toni Morrison's books really helped me understand how hard it is to heal from the horror of slavery.
The whole point of this article is that here is a community that is finding a way to mend what was once broken. I posted it as good-news.
I can't imagine all of the atrocities/abuses slaves went through. I'd be a liar if I said I did. I'll never fully know those hardships and I think its safe to say that nobody alive today will fully understand them. I don't get why some people use slavery as a crutch, as if it was slavery that is keeping them "down" today. It just doesn't make sense.....
FYI, the whole pants wearing down did come from prison. It used to mean that you were willing to take it in the rear and then at some point it was adopted as a fashion statement in prison. Then as people got out of prison they brought it to the streets.
You are right the people who are police should live in the community. Where I live that used to be the standard but then they loosened it because not enough people were applying for the job so they were forced to drop that.
As for punishment fitting the crime I also agree to an extent with you on that. But Eric G was not complying with what he was being asked to do. His punishment would have been to be arrested and charged with who knows what the law is but part of it was because of the taxes on cigs. All he had to do with put his hands behind his back but HE made the choice not to do so.
I think we would agree that 3 strikes and your out law is not all it cracked up to be and mandatory minimums are not working out either. But you have to understand why both were put into place as the crime may not always fir the punishment but if you don't learn from your mistakes then as some point you have to stay enough is enough.
I wish I could say the feeling was mutual, Mike, but I "am" more and more surprised by every one of the posts you address to me. The personal attacks simply astound me and for the most part, I find restraint to be best, but I do want to address your comment about slavery.
I have a very deep appreciation for history and I'm very well aware of the effects of slavery; I just don't happen to believe that those effects should live on forever and ever. It's people like you who perpetuate the idea that black people are so downtrodden and deserve to be taken care of ... I never owned slaves, my family didn't own slaves; I don't know if yours did or not - maybe so and you feel responsible. By the same token, I doubt there are any black people living that were actually slaves in the U.S... The Civil War is over and slavery is long gone, it's illegal - let it go. Let the black people take their place in society, as they were meant to do, and as MLK worked so hard for them to be able to and stop projecting your crippling ideas onto them.
Obviously you have a limited appreciation of history. I guess you've never considered the long lasting effects of slavery. I'm less and less surprised with every new post of yours. I assume you've never bred horses or dogs or cattle or humans. You've got a long way to go Barb before you'll understand anything beyond the surface. I feel sorry for you and the people you influence.
"Maybe I'm projecting but when I compare my youth to theirs I feel as though I know nothing about what makes them tick." You don't know anything about what makes them tick, because your childhood was a world away from theirs.
You keep talking about the black community being fragmented, disenfranchised and decimated - can we get more dramatic? What about the poor white or Hispanic communities? Do you not care about those? Does not every American, regardless of color/race deserve the same chances? There are schools that only black people can attend, but just try to keep black from attending any other school and listen to the hue and cry... That's reverse discrimination. When black people get advantages that others don't get, simply because of the color of their skin, that's racism of the worst kind.
Not all black people are the same. I used to work with several single black mothers... very hard working, very proud to be able to raise their children by themselves and though they might have had to accept assistance at one time or another - they didn't depend on it for life and they didn't use it as an excuse to stop working and trying to get ahead. They pushed their children to study and do better than they did, so they could rise above the norm...
The old adage of "give a man a hand up, not a hand out" is so very true.
I believe the punishment should fit the crime which is why being put into a strangle hold for selling single ciggarrettes is down right cruel. That offense should be a misdemeanor.
As far as breaking the law goes, I can't tell you how many people I see on their phones while driving. I don't think they should have their lives threatened by the police although their behavior on the rode can be life threatening.
I've always though that ideally police officers should live in the community in which they work. They should be a part of the community not some outside force that comes in and creates fear, which sadly, is what has happened in many, many places.
Husband/Wife is not in the black community and there lies one of the big problems.
Well, I personally don't know too many people who use those terms either.
I'm sure this will come off as another liberal indulgence but let me try to make my point.
It's like guys wearing their pants really low. They say that originated in prison where inmates were not allowed to have belts and thus their pants drooped down low. I don't know for sure if that's true but let's assume that it is just for the sake of this discussion. Now, I don't believe that wearing your pants low will, in and of itself, get you into prison. But, the question that I ask myself is why do they do it or how did this become fashionable. I think that the black community has been so fragmented and so disenfranchised and so decimated that the youth find very little to be proud of. I see so many young black men and women and I will frequently try and imagine what they see as their future or how do they imagine themselves or what do they have to be proud of. Maybe I'm projecting but when I compare my youth to theirs I feel as though I know nothing about what makes them tick.
They don't have 2 parent households and they have few role models to look up to or emulate. Where do they find their self esteem? I sometime see them strutting down the street and I say to myself - they have to strut - that's all they have - their strut. I see the term "baby momma" as a desperate attempt to assign some dignity or coolness to a very sad situation - to somehow try to glamorize it. It's like wearing your pants too low. It's a type or rebellious celebration of a hopeless situation. Maybe I'm way off but that is the way I see it.
I see your points but I agree and disagree. I don’t know anyone that refers to his or her spouse as BABY MOMMA/DADDY. In my opinion if these were frowned upon instead of accepted, and Wife/Husband uplifted, we would see change
Yes el there is a difference though apparently that obvious point eludes you. That's why they have different levels of punishment and different terms of and facilities for incarceration. That's so obvious I would think even you'd be capable of grasping that.
Jaywalking, littering, smoking pot is not as criminal as murder or kidnapping or extortion or rape - get it?
And brilliant?
Maybe but at least I'm smart whereas you constantly demonstrate that you're nothing but a rather slow guy trying desperately to sound smart and failing miserably at it.
I only broke a MINOR law... please Mr.Judge, only punish me MINORLY.
After all, it was just a little law than no one cares about anyway! Who really cares, right?
I'm only a LITTLE criminal...
(see how utterly STOOPID that sounds, Mike? Being an attorney, I'd have thought you'd have more respect for the law... both minor laws AND major ones. Obviously, there's a difference, to you, between breaking minor-laws and major-laws, and a minor-law breaker shouldn't really be considered a criminal and condemned for their actions. That's some sound logic & reasoning there buddy... that's for sure! You are brilliant!!!)
Of course, emphasis on the family is critical.
I think it's naive to believe that changing language is significant or even relevant.
The language reflects the culture - it does not create the culture nor does it encourage or perpetuate it, in my opinion. If the underlying dynamics change so too will the language but that's not simple, easy or even a priority these days....unfortunately.