who is at fault?

[bbxx]

http://www.krdo.com/news/28165142/detail.html?hpt=us_bn7

Teen attacked by dogs when she was soliciting.
The home had a sign saying no soliticing.
The teen admitted she regularly ignores those signs.

I say the teen is responsible.

[brice1967]

My aunts home had been robbed a few times within a year.  She went and purchased a trained Doberman.  His name was "Mister" and he sure as hell meant business.  (She also had more than a screen door to keep him in)  He was basically trained that everything on the inside was his, everything on the outside was yours.  If you stuck your hand through that mail slot, you were drawing back a nub, baby!

I had to meet "Mister" as my aunt was going out of town and I was going to house/dog sit.... LOL, as if that beast needed any help watching the house!  I opened the door not knowing what was going on and here this ******* was, growling, bearing his teeth and shaking in anticipation of my big *** setting foot in that door.  I peed down both legs when I realized what was about to occur.  My aunt called him off and introduced us properly.  He became a best friend.... his call of course!  He would walk over to you arm hanging off the edge of the sofa and kind of scoop your hand up, upon his head.... that apparently meant "pet me now, or this $hit is on!!!".  I always obliged.

The best thing was, you could get "Mister's" attention and tell him to smile....Jesus, he'd bear his teeth and growl so violently that he'd shiver and quiver and even drool a bit.  Scariest damn mutt I ever saw, but once you knew him you were buddies... thank God.

[brice1967]

If the dogs have a history of attacks or biting incidents, I feel as if it is the owners responsibility to make sure every thing possible to prevent another incident has taken place.  Merely placing signs is not enough.  

Then, on the other hand you have signs posted "beware of dog".  Common sense has to come into play somewhere.  The sign was posted and the girl admitted seeing it...duh?  

We had a dog in our neighborhood that was a Great Dane/Dalmation cross.  It was the meanest S.O.B. for miles.  There wasn't a damn door that would have held that bugger back.  It took one time getting chased, and a narrow damned escape and we all knew to keep away.... common sense people, common sense.

[el_em_en_oh]

I just friend requested you BBXX, so if/when you accept, you can check out my pix.

Thanks for the get well. It just a kidney stone... No biggie. Only 7.5mm, so passable, but it's gonna smart a little bit.

Signing off... Catch you guys on Monday. Have a good weekend everyone!

lMNO (Carl)

[bbxx]

I looked for your pics, but cant see them. (set to private I guess).
By the way, I read you are in teh hospital--get well soon.

[el_em_en_oh]

You'll have to try A LOT harder than that if you want to insult me!!! Ha, ha:-)

Honestly BBXX, I didn't take it that way AT ALL. I LOVE each and every one of my gigantic balls of slobber and hair.

Have you looked on my profile and seen all my doggie pictures? If not, go check them out. There's even one of me, with my little'one sitting in my lap. Her name's Condi (named after a beautiful, wonderful, strong, powerful, female, conservative-republican, in case you were wondering), and she's my baby.

Whatcha think of them?

[bbxx]

I have read of people being sued after a thief got hurt on their property. Isnt that the craziess thing ever?

[Barb135]

Even with a fenced yard, there can be issues.  The fence would have to be such that the dog(s) could not jump over, dig out from under, break through, get a gate unlocked, etc.  Every possible scenario has to be looked at.  By the same token, you have to make sure that no one could get into the fenced area where dogs might be housed.  

There are instances where other people have to come on your property (meter readers, mail persons, etc).  In our case, we have a propane tank and the gas company wouldn't send their people to fill the tank when they found out we had dogs, until I assured them that the dogs can't get anywhere near where the gas tank is.  

I've even read that if someone breaks into your house and is injured, you can still be sued, even though that person was breaking the law.  

In this case, while the teen should have heeded the no soliciting sign, the owners of the dog would bear the greatest responsibility, I think.

[adgal]

You know, I had not looked at it from that perspective. You are correct, there are often reasons people need to come on your property.  I know here if you don't shovel your driveway/walk and the mailman slips on ice you can be sued.  So if I am following you, it is a very different thing if say someone broke into your home and was attacked by a guard dog vs. coming on to your property and having the dog come at her.  So here would be the last point I am wondering about.  What if you have a fenced in yard and a guard dog in the yard but within the fence and someone enters.  I think that is where my thought process was when I said that I would lean towards the teen being at fault.  But I see what you mean now.

[mikesimon]

I am very isolated and I worry about my safety. My dogs are always under control. If they weren't I would have had a real problem. I have had rural power line workers call me at my office and ask me how anyone gets in my house. These guys worked the rural areas and they were scared shirtless to come near my house just to put a sign on the door handle. My french doors were a mess with nail marks running from the top to the floor. If I had only a screen those workers would have been in serious trouble. It is reckless behavior to have only a screen between the dogs and the outside. It's life that people do come onto your property and occasionally they have the right to do so. You have got to protect them from harm - period. It seems so fashionable today to speak of the rights of human beings - I really get that. But you cannot expose people to serious bodily injury just because it is your own property. It is just silly simple minded thinking.

Mike  

[Barb135]

Tragic as this was, I've got to go with Mike; you can't put just a screen door between dogs and the public, particularly protective dogs.  

I've had protective dogs and while they are totally awesome in some cases, they are a huge liability, particularly, if they aren't properly confined.  

That said -- whatever type dog you might have, can cause issues when visitors come.  We have 2 dogs, a 7 yr old beagle/black lab mix, who alerts us to everything, sounds vicious as all get out, but like el_em_en_oh's dogs, will most likely lick you to death; however,  I don't ever assume that; she's never left to roam amongst visitors until she "settles"........  BTW - our 2nd dog is a rescued, 12 yr old "puppy mill" cocker spaniel; her vocal chords were disabled long before we got her, so she can only "oink" at you......

Caution is always the first line of defense.

[mikesimon]

Honestly no, it's not that complicated.
When dogs burst through a screen door and attack someone I think it's rather clear. I detest trespassers but you cannot just kill them or have your dogs attack them. They broke through the screen door and that was all that was between them and outside world. And that's not too cool.

Mike

[adgal]

Well, I am not confident enough to put money on it..lol.  It is a bit of a complicated issue though isn't it.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I do think both sides have a valid complaint.

[bbxx]

I tried to leave you a note, but you arent accepting them, so I have to put this here.
I re-read my post and I didnt mean to sound insulting about you having a lot of dogs. (when I said the hair and smell from one dog drives me nuts) . Anyway, not sure if you took it they way I meant it or if you took it as me being insulting. If you thought I was insulting you, I am sorry. I really wasnt.

[mikesimon]

I'll bet with you.

Mike

[adgal]

Sort of a funny story with regards to this. Sweetpea just made me remember it.

We had a case here quite sometime ago where the owner of the house hadn't put those stickers up that say "home alarmed by AT&T" or whatever the case may be.  So the guy who got caught trying to break in tried to claim entrapment as there was no warning that the house had an alarm system...lol.

[sweetpea03]

I think the teen is at fault. It's like the burglar who tried to rob my neighbor's house and hurt his hand in her garage and then sued her! You are on that person's private property, there are clear signs stating that she shouldn't be there, so it's her own problem. If she was actually listening to the sign and wasn't soliciting, none of this would have happened.

[adgal]

My initial reaction is the teen was at fault, providing the whole incident took place on private property, which it did.  At the same time though, I agree with Mike that dangerous dogs always need to be secure.  I don't know..I can see this going either way I guess.  But if I had to bet, I would say the dog and owner are found not liable.

[bbxx]

Good point too Narla, but then again, why would a child unable to read be without a parent? ugh--its all tricky

[narla]

The problem here is what if it was a younger child that couldn't read or didn't understand what soliciting meant.Dangerous dogs need to be kept secure at all times.

I do believe this teenager was at fault for her attack though,to some extent.

[bbxx]

You bring up a good point, but what about the fact many people like this girl, ignore signs to stay off property etc...I have a neighbor that has quite literally taken the attitude its her right to go on private property and if anything happens to her, she sues. So far she has sued a man for his dog biting her (the guy was outside playing with his dog in his back yard and she entered from her back yard, behind some bushes and was bit before the guy could stop it).
She also has walked  on others property and happened to "fall" and sued them for her injury.
There has to be some sort of protection too for the owner too. I mean I agree the dogs should have been under control but again--she said she ignores signs. I dont know, Its just all frustrating because people should be safe to walk past someones home, and yet the owner should be allowed rights too.

[el_em_en_oh]

My dogs are VERY secure. Besides, they won't leave the yard /property. They're all very well trained. The ex-wife and I worked very7 hard with each of them from a very young age, and they're all pretty much GLUED to the yard while they're outside.

That being said, you'd have to WANT to get into my yard (the fence is over 7 feet high), so if you're in there, you're fair game. Now, if you're a guest in the house, or they know you, look out, cuz they're likely to try and LICK you to death!!!

Didn't know they'd busted through the screen door. That's a different matter altogether.

Owners at fault for not securing their animals... PERIOD.

[bbxx]

El----your home sounds very warm. Nothing like a mastiff to say wecome. lol
Dont worry about me dropping by for tea. lolThats a serious load of dogs!
I dont know how you do it. I have one dog and I cant stand the smell or hair.
I hope you have them very very secure so they cant break out and get anyone walking by.
You may want to check on your laws too. I know where I live the signs ahve to be so high, so may feet apart and in certain locations, otherwise--they dont count.

[mikesimon]

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. The dogs burst through the screen door. They were not secured. Suppose the house had been on fire and a passerby went to the door to warn the inhabitants and was attacked and bitten. Would any liability attach in that situation?

I have owned Akitas and they were very aggressive towards strangers coming around my house and especially when they came to the door. I live on a farm and I am isolated and here is no way I would have ever had only a screen door to contain my dogs - it would have been extremely reckless in my opinion. Does ignoring or not seeing a "Do not Solicit" sign immediately render a person vulnerable to any type of harm? Could you just shoot them? No, the homeowner has a responsibility to keep people safe from harm and clearly that was not done here.

I love dogs and I love protective dogs - guard dogs. But you can't rely on a screen door to control them. These dogs could have provided the same degree of protection behind a real door. Mine did.

Mike

[el_em_en_oh]

Teen is responsible.

I have (6) dogs (3-dobi's, 1-mastiff, 1-feral dog, 1-mutt), and a big, bold, bright red sign that says, "Beware of Dog". If you chose to ignore it and try and enter my yard or my home, I feel REALLY sorry for you, as you're about to get an a$$ chewing like you've never had before. My dobi's are nice when I'm around, but if you're a stranger on THEIR turf... consider yourself a VERY injured person (you may want to call for help ahead of time!).

They're cute, but in the right situation, they're mean.

Teen's at fault, FOR SURE.