Not a question... an experience and a lesson

[katrinika]

Collapsed trachea emergency solved -- Update on Gidget... If I hadn't been very ill with a antibiotic drug reaction, my Gidgi-poo would have been put down.  I figured out what was wrong, and she's almost completely well.  

One night, not being able to sleep with the Keflex rash and too weak the two days before to bring her in to be put down, I lay listening to her heaving for breath - at least once she passed out.  She had been so much worse that day that even at the highest dose the vet's medicine was no help at all... I thought, "what was different about today?" and it hit me... I thought that since she was dying anyway her weight didn't matter, and little by little over the course of the week I had given her all the treats/chews I had...then I ran across a few Dentley's dental enzyme dog chews and gave her one.  That evening and night she struggled, heaving and strangling for breath.  The CET enzymatic dog toothpaste works so much better than the regular.. I thought these dog chews would be good for their teeth.  

So I went online and researched collapsed trachea in dogs.  It is a common weakness in toy and miniature dogs, some more so than others.  Its cause is unknown, but the action is that the rings of the trachea somehow soften.. the rings are made of cartilage... dental enzyme, plaque, calcium... cartilage, calcium... !!!  She always had a weakness for the symptoms of trachea trouble, hoarse coughing when she got excited, probably because she was under-nourished as a puppy, but these were her first attacks.  She had had her first attack of trachea collapse in July and I took her to the vet, gave her the medicine and she got better.  

Well, I now realize that first attack coincided with the first time she had been on another brand of dental enzyme chew, Sentry HC Petrodex (Seargent), for a couple of months, I ran out while she was getting the meds.  It wasn't
the vet meds that made her better, it was running out of the enzyme chews.  When I got more in, after a couple of months again she went down - this time the vet meds did no good.  

With the addition of the Dentley's occasionally during the day and my recent increased use of the enzyme toothpaste.. I almost killed her.  While I suspect that there will be residual damage from the spell of collapse before I discovered my mistake, two days without enzyme chews and she is almost back to normal.  Warn everybody.  

Further, I've been giving my dogs PetTabs for fourteen years...  Not long ago I accidently dropped the dogs' PetTab vitamins in their water bowl and ruined the whole bottle.  While I was waiting for the new bottle to come in the mail I noticed that their eyes stopped gunking up and they had more energy and their personalities were more loving like they used to be.  As soon as I resumed giving them the vitamin their eyes gunked up again and both dogs lost all energy again.  I had wondered, years ago, why it seemed like all the dogs lost their energy and normal personalities at the same time.  I thought it was the weather or pollution or age or something.  PetTabs must have changed their formula.  Those vitamins are gone and I don't know what I'll replace them with.  

[zoe114]

You can ask the butcher for them. Ask them for femer bones, the knuckle bones are on the end, the ones with the marrow is in the middle. I feed these to my dogs for years. I only stopped when one of my dogs got IMHA and Pancretitice (sp? ) and could not have any fatty items. It was hard to keep up and keep her away from them so I just stopped. I did try ones again about a year ago, but my puppy got ill from it- the marrow is too rich for a puppy. If I did this again I would get the knuckle bones. I would not buy any that have beenout on the shelf long as the store is able to give a longer shelf life to them. The store gets them frozen, so just have them cut them for you on the saw. To keep them fresh, you can take them up after your dog chews on them and put them in the freezer. Allow them to set out for 20-30 minutes before you give them to them next, well, at least my dogs did not like them so cold. Don't cook up the bones, that will make the bones too hard and really hurt the teeth. Some vets like them, others don't.    

[katrinika]

When my first dog was a puppy I told the vet how much she enjoyed chewing on her twisted thread rope - the vet was appalled and told me that the threads can become intangled in the cilia of the intestine.  

I am gradually making their treats smaller and smaller.  They really don't care how much of a treat they get, just the fact that there is a treat twice a day - 11:30 and bedtime.  It's tradition. :)

As for chews, what do you hear about raw bones?  How can I even find raw bones these days?

[zoe114]

I meant to tell you that this vet tech also suggested using the tight rope's to allow the dog to chew on. The only problem I see with this is them getting threads in them and could cause internal damage. I am using the nylabones, but I only get the ones that don't have things they can chew off, and when they get chewed well, I toss them.
I am sorry your dogs are getting ill from these.
I use for myself and my dogs once in a while Chlorhexidine Gluconate, it kills bacteria. It is not supposed to be swallowed, and only use once a wekk or so, as it will stain the teeth yellow. You can find this product for dogs anywhere. I got some with cleaning clothers from Doctors and Smiths, but sure you can find at other places.  

[katrinika]

I brushed Gidget's teeth with the Pfizer/Virbac C.E.T. Dental Enzyme Toothpaste the day before yesterday - yesterday she was coughing some - today she is coughing much more.  Apparently it hurt her not only as it was used in her mouth, but also as she digested it and her body further processed it.  

[zoe114]

A vet tech told me she used to give all of the items to her dogs as well, but found them to not be of help- almost died as well. One dog she told me broke her teeth on the cooked bones. I used to give my dogs the raw bones and that did keep their teeth very clean, I might go back to that one day but if I do I will make sure that most of the marrow is out as that is so fatty for some dogs.
Another thought, why do we feel ( all of us) a need to buy treats? Dogs love apples, carrots, celery, etc. It's all marketing. Just learn about your dogs condition ( for all of us) and find out if something could be good for him. I just read that peanuts/ peanut butter is bad for someone with thyroid problems, so now I will not be giving my low thyroid dog any peanut butter. I just wish that someone - a good vet, would write a book on dog illness and what food is best for that illness. I also wish that the dog food industry was regulated better with understanding of what is needed for our pets health. I read today that some illness are due to the grains that are in pet food ( now, this could be the feed for the animal- cow, chicken) might be in a poor soil, so although soemthing looks good for our pets ( even us) it might not actually have all the nutients they need.
Okay, I see that I have now bump this- sorry...I just was on a tear  :)    

[katrinika]

See my post regarding damage done by Pet Tabs dog vitamins http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Dogs/Another-experience---reduced-energy--personality-loss/show/1365333

I just checked the Pfizer/Virbac website.  Pet Tabs have not been recalled, and they deny that there is enough lead in them to harm a pet.  

However, I know my dogs, I know what happened, and they will never get Pet Tabs again.  Period.  

Now that I know that the same company that makes Pet Tabs also makes C.E.T. Dental Enzyme Toothpaste for pets, I will suspend my experiment to see if the toothpaste does the same damage the enzyme dog chews did.  No more Pfizer/Virbac for my pets.  Period.  

[katrinika]

I brushed Gidget's teeth with the enzyme toothpaste yesterday and today she was coughing.  She hasn't coughed in days.  Will keep an eye on this - very, very closely.  I'm going to wait a week then try again.  If the same thing happens -- out! goes the dental enzyme.  

[katrinika]

I just realized that I can add to an inital post.  I posted this at a later date as a separate post but I'm going to add it here to have it all in one place.  

I wrote recently about my little dog's close call with dental enzyme dog chews and how she nearly died while using them.  I mentioned CET enzyme toothpaste, because it's working so well is what gave me the idea to try the dental enzyme chews.  Well, I went back and checked all the dental enzyme rawhide chew packages for the brands I had been using, and all of them were made outside the USA.  I checked the CET toothpaste and it is made IN the USA.  It really does work so much better than regular doggie dentifrice toothpaste (usually some kind of scrubbing granule and not as effective for me, since I only brush the dogs' teeth once a week - a chore, but it beats having them go under anesthesia to get their teeth cleaned).  I am going to trust the USA-made product and keep using VirBac CET dental enzyme toothpaste.  At least, I'm going to do so and monitor my dogs' trachea problems (hoarse, cough, etc.).  I'm going to check the (more expensive) CET dental enzyme rawhide chews to see where they're made, but I'm leary of chews now.  Definitely, no more Petrodex or Dentley's dental enzyme chews - NOT made in the USA, darn near killed my dog.  
-------------------
The chews I had been using were made in various parts of South America.  

I just read the post about rawhide chews not being good for dogs and that's it... no more chews.  I, too, have had problems with the dogs swallowing and choking on large pieces of softened rawhide, pig ears, etc.  They're not treats if they're going to kill my dogs.  

Sometimes there's just no way around work... they don't enjoy it and neither do I, but from now on I do the right thing and just brush their teeth.  No tooth loss, no abscesses in between vet cleanings, no anesthesia during vet cleanings (that always worried me and I think it had a lot to do with one dog, Lady's, death when she was weak from previously undetected cancer).  

I also just got a comment on my post about the PetTabs, they were recalled in July due to ? lead contamination.  That probably had a lot to do with why Lady was weak to begin with and, who knows?, maybe with how she got cancer.  I'd known that all the dogs were not themselves for a long time... listless, no more running, loss of interest in what they previously loved.  I didn't know how to account for it.  They got everything I could scrape up the money to give them, including PetTabs.  

It cost me over $1,000 to treat Lady before and including her heart-wrenching death.  It cost me $167, twice, at the vet to try to treat Gidget's trachea collapse.  It cost plenty to give the dogs those vitamins and dental enzyme chews.  Money I could NOT afford and went into debt for.  

[katrinika]

Read my later posts on the same subject - trachea collapse - I found that the dental enzyme chews I was using were made outside the US.  The CET enzyme toothpaste is made in the US.  Since it works so well and keeping their teeth clean is so important (anesthesia and cost of vet teeth cleaning) I'm going to use the toothpaste weekly and monitor the trachea symptoms.  

[zoe114]

There should be a sticky on here just for problems solved. I had ( still have) a dog that got Pancretitice (spelling?) from a vet giving her dog food that had 2 times the amount of fat in it, and the save vet gave her amoxicellin which gave her IMHA.

I am so happy your dog is going to be fine, and now your post will help other doggies  :)

[ginger899]

Oh my goodness! That must be such a relief. What a blessing (isn't it so strange?)- that you were too sick those days to get to the vet's. And thank heavens you discovered what the cause of her problem was!

I wonder if the enzyme chews and enzyme toothpaste can cause the same problem in all dogs? I really have no idea, but am now a little worred because I use enzyme toothpaste for my dog.