Long history of symptoms similar to gall bladder but no stones - should this be treated and when

[jaguarco]

I have had a long history (over 15 years) of difficulty after eating certain foods.  I have been able to recognize most of them but occasionally I don't pay enough attention.  I had an ultrasound for gall stones about five years ago and none were found.  I have an intensive family history of gall bladder disease including my maternal grandmother, my mother and her four sisters, my sister, and my daughter (at age 16 with no gall stones).

My symtpoms include an upset stomach followed by a bout of yellowish diarrhea and nausea, which then causes me to break out in a sweat all over my body and become very weak.  The gastric pain is usually located under my right lower ribs.  I have had some right scapular pain but rarely.  This acute episode usually starts about 30-45 minutes after eating and lasts intensely for an hour, then eases up with only the aching under my ribs.

My question is should I have this investigated again or just continue to avoid the known foods (butter, ice cream, tomato sauces, fatty meats, whipped cream) as often as possible.  My concern is that my grandmother died from a burst gall bladder and resulting peritonitis.  I am unsure if she had gall stones.

[elbrujo]

I personally have had "Gall bladder stone like" issues for the past 5 years or so.


About 11 years ago i started noticing some sort of "ants walking sensation" in the right hand side of the upper back, specially after eating, and mostly when I would bend down. I saw a doctor about this, and he told me it was my work, since I was sitting all the time at my desk and holding the mouse. He said it was a muscular thing. So much for that. I think he gave me pain killers or something like that.

As time went by, I started feeling sharp incisive colic pain in under the right ribs cage, in the night when i was sleep, but it would not last long, since I would change side and it was gone.

I did drink regularly in the past and ate lots of greasy stuff which definetely did not help my cause.

I kept ignoring these wake up calls at the time, but I knew something was going on in my liver and gall bladder.

When I was young, I remember I had always been very prone to having heartburns and burping all the time.  Specially after spicy, greasy and acid food. (An acid test would be; Chilli con Carne, since this stuff has three elements that can really make your liver and gall bladder nuts! Animal grease, hot spicy stuff, and tomato juice which is very acidic).

I know that in my family everyone was prone to taking anti acids all the time. My mother, father, sisters, brothers, even my grandma had trouble with acid reflux and stuff).

Going back to my story; Time went on, and about 5 years ago I decided it was time for me to take care of my health. The pain in the area was worringme too much. I decided to quit drinking and smoking.

At the same time, a lot of things were going on in my life that caused a lot of stress.
So it was then, that I came back home one day feeling terribly bloated and with pain in my lower right rib cage area and lasted for about 10 hours!

This kept going on for a week and it would not go away. That is when I decided to go see a doctor.

The doctorsaid she could not see anything but she would make some tests and scans.
After all the tests came back with no traces of stones or high levels of bilirubin in the blood, she decided to make me see the specialist.

Meanwhile, I was really stressed not knowing what the heck was going on.
It took me 6 months before I could see the specialist. He repeated the same procedure, meaning; sending me to do an ultrasound, blood tests etc. Since nothing was found, he sent me for a CT scan with no results.

By this time, I had been surviving on little meals consisting mainly of rice, tofu and boiled vegetables.

My sleep went awry. I was tired all the time, since I was sleeping 3 or 4 hours a night. The pain in the rib cage area would prevent me from sleeping. Also, I started getting pain all over the back but specially the lower back and sciatica. Since my gall bladder and liver where not functioning properly, I began having chronic joint problems (Knees and shoulders). My ligaments and tendons became very weak. I injured both my knees and shoulders trying to “keep fit” and doing activities which in the past would not hurt.

Since the specialist in the clinic did not find anything, I kept struggling to see who would find what was wrong. I went to another clinic and the doctor there made me pass same sort of tests once again with no avail. The thing that reasured me this time though, was that he garanteed I did not have any sort of cancer in the liver area.

During all this time, (about a year and a half of pure "Hell"), i spoke to a girl at work and explained to her what I was feeling. Right away she told me: “those are like signs of Gall bladder stones”.
The worst part is being left in a limbo not knowing what it is that you have.

I kept insisting that it was something physical and not invented and made up in my mind.
I would sometimes walk close to a hospital thinking: maybe if I drink a bottle of vegetable oil and then have a real crisis, then, only then, will they remove the dam thing out.
All doctors I spoke to said it was not the gall bladder, so they did not see the point of removing it.

After a year and a half of pure "Hell", I decided to go see the doctor from the other clinic again and ask him to give me some paper for short term disability.
I was in such despair and feeling so alone, I broke up crying in front of the Doc. He realized that the whole thing had turned into a depression, and that is what he diagnosed me.

During all this time, I had been searching on the internet for similar stories as mine. that is how I started reading about the liver, the gall bladder and Chinese medicine.

I have been blessed and lucky, since I do have work insurance. I would treat myself with an acupuncture session each week. (When I think about it, it was probably this that prevented my liver from exploding or something!)

As I said before, I was diagnosed with Depression. And the doctor who diagnosed it told me that all the pain was stress related. (As a matter of fact, everyone would tell me it was all in my head!).


One of the things that helped me was him telling me to start exercising! I started going swimming each day for about 40 minutes.

I did not give up then. I kept watching what I would eat and continue my diet. I insisted on the chinese medicine, I tried to avoid drinking alcohol and stopped consuming coffee, milk products, cheese, fatty meat, and anything that would make things worst.

After 5 years, I have slowly recuperated from that hellish episode, but I have to say that the pain in my lower right rib cage comes and goes depending on how I treat my gall bladder.

I sometimes notice that I can still have colics but they are not as bad.

I even did a Liver and Gall Bladder flush about 2 months ago! (I do not recommend it unless you know what your condition is!)

The back pain comes and goes.  The joints have slowly restablished but are not 100 percent solid like they were in the past.

I now weight 156 pounds. Before all this happened, I was weighting about 176 pounds. And when “all hell broke loose” I weighted 145 pounds!

My Gall bladder function has not been completely restored and maybe it will never be, but with care on what I eat and drink as well as following good lifestyle, I might be able to stabilize it.


All this to say one thing: The mistery is still there. It is a bit like the mystery of the chicken and the egg: “what came about first, the physical pain , or the mental stress and the depression? Which, when you think about it from another perspective, you begin to understand that everything is interconected. That is where Chinese and holistic medicine come into play. If you search for info on these subjects and particularly about Gall Bladder and liver issues and Chinese medicine, you might be surprised and able to understand what I am talking about!

I am now incorporating in my life a healthier lifestile, I avoid animal fats, I drink green tea instead of coffee, I exercise, do yoga,  swimming, cardio and a bit of weight lifting, I am treating my liver and gallbladder with Chinese and holistic medicine.

I think the important thing here is to be more proactive towards your healing and I tihnk this is what I learnt.

Please feel free to e-mail me for any questions you might have and which might help you to heal!

Good luck  and God bless you all!

[boron]

What exactly was your anti-cancer therapy (exact names of drugs used)? Can you put it in a new thread? :)

Can you exactly describe your pain? After the meal, after specific food, during NIGHT(?), how long it lasts?

[boron]

As you already know, your symptoms are school example of gallbladder disease. You just listed all  characteristic ones.

Yellowish stool means that not enough bile is comming from the liver into intestine and consequently less stercobilin (which normally gives the brown color to the feces is excreted with the stool). Additionally, fats are excreted, since they can't be absorbed, OK, you know that.

INVESTIGATION:
Ultrasound only shows stones bigger of certain size. There are many varieties of this more dense bile, one is called gallbladder sludge. You haven't said what exact diagnosis your relatives had, but lack of the bile may be due to liver disease or bile DUCTS disease. Gallbladder stones themselves do not necessary cause any problems, since the bile can flow directly from the liver into duodenum.

There is one endoscopic procedure, called ERCP, where a GI fills (using a gastroscope) your bile ducts with a contrast substance, which is then clearly seen on x-ray and can show blockage. This will probably be needed to identify the nature of your problems from the inside. Please remember, it is gallbladder and there is hepatic duct and then common hepatobiliary duct, which can be inflammed or blocked with a small stone which is NOT seen on ultrasound.

Here is explanation of ERCP, talk with your doctor about it:
gicare.com/pated/epdgs20.htm  

If it will come out that you'll gallbladder will be removed, make sure that they will investigate your bile duct, and hepatic duct also.

[artep1]

My problem started on 10-24-07, after my last treatment of BCG for Bladder Cancer (6 weeks) The pain was so intense, that I was not able to sit or stand for the next 45 minutes. Similar to very bad gas pain.Per Urologist, no complication from treatment.  I was told to see my regular Physician.  Was put on Nexium 80 mg in case of possible ulcer,(had black stool after taking MOM) than a referral to Gastro and Digestive Clinic.  
Endoscopy showed Barrett's Disease, I changed my diet accordingly.  This was 11-21-07. The pain did not get any better. It now was concentrated under my right rib cage and severely in upper middle back. Went in on an Emergency to The Gastro Clinic.  Was given Percocet -5 (did not touch the pain) changed from Nexium to Protonix 40 mg, in addition to Pepcid at night.  12-6-07, the pain was so severe, that I went to the ER around midnight.
Tests ordered where RAD ABD. SERIES WITH  PA x-RAY, negative
CT Abd. with contrast= negative.  Outpatient HIDA Scan= negative.
Blood work= negative.
I am eating mostly green, no processed foods, cheese or dairy, no caffeine or alcohol. The pain is always with me, but only dull at this point.
Two more tests have been ordered at this point.  One is Gastric emptying in Nuclear Medicine and the other will be at Vascular Diagnostic, an abdominal Mesenteric test.
I still think it is the Gallbladder problem.  
I am in great physical shape, not overweight and very active. So, if anyone has any answeres, I be glad to hear from you.
Thanks much

[Ms_Makita]

Hi! I went through same thing for years with many similar episodes,was told it was IBS,adult colic..when in fact it is similar to gallbladder attacks,as it turns out end of Feb went to er in severe pain..Gallstones,I'm 29 yrs old.Had same pain/symptoms  on and off for yrs but no gallstones.You could have dysfuctional gallbladder,or acalculous biliary pain,meaning without gallstones,or sludge that isnt always detected on ultrasound.
       There are many other gi disorders that mimic gallbladder pain/attacks (ibs) so its time to get some further testing done,ask for a hida scan.I'm currently pulling teeth with dr's to remove gallbladder (2 surgeons refused) inspite of daily pain and repeated gallstone attacks and afraid of it bursting..almost had my appendix rupture in oct 2006..It is my insurance company is only conclusion I can come up with...
               Good luck to you,
                    Stephanie