two people were bleeding at the same time

[babylon123]

I thought I would never return to this site...but I am here again for help ..
no sex at all, no drug work sharing at all.
I am a male. In a party, I was scratched several times by someone's fingernails who is hiv+. And I bleed.His nails are very very long..... (I didn't pay attention to whether he was bleeding or not)  I am so scared..if two people are bleeding at the same time and have a skin contact, can one contract hiv from another hiv+ person? is there any case in the world reported like this makes one infected in this way through the skin cut?  Thank you very much!

[Vance2335]

Start your own thread then

[maneksha]

hi I need an advice

[Teak]

* Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusively negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to action by MedHelp. Conclusively negative results or a no-risk situation will be based upon the criteria established by MedHelp’s doctors. Action will be taken as follows:
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    * Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
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[veryworriedanxiety]

I would be interested to hear your comments relating to the thread below as I always thought the virus could not survive outside of it's environment but here the Dr talks about PEP

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV---Prevention/HIV-and-Friend/show/255407

[veryworriedanxiety]

Thank you

I will take your advice and let it go without testing as you agree it is 100 percent safe - that's all I needed to hear for my OCD mind

Thanks again and take care

[nursegirl6572]

If you tell me that if the same happened to you - fingernail literally puncturing your skin resulting in bleeding at a GUM clinic from shaking hands would you honestly not test and know in your mind 100 percent risk free.


Of COURSE!!!!  For one, shaking hands isn't a way to become exposed in the first place.  This is a totally irrational fear.  Get yourself some help.

[veryworriedanxiety]

Thank you for your detailed answer and explanation.

Can I just ask that as the nail clearly punctured by hand making a wound resulting in blood this would take away the protective skin layer scenario so would leave the other possibilities of required near perfect conditions.

If you tell me that if the same happened to you - fingernail literally puncturing your skin resulting in bleeding at a GUM clinic from shaking hands would you honestly not test and know in your mind 100 percent risk free.

If you can honestly tell me that and that I have 100 percent safety with my pregnant wife then I will believe you and move on. If there is any risk then I will have to go through another few weeks of hell waiting to be tested - again ....

I really appreciate your honest answers.

PS; I didn't see blood on the Dr's hand and I had just spent 20 minutes with him carrying out tests and he used a hand gel before taking my blood sample. My concern is not him actively bleeding but having small cut under his nail which many of us do or him having prior patients blood or secretions. I suppose my mind is saying this is no different to be stabbed in the hand with a utensil from a GUM clinic as it clearly stabbed me - hurt a lot and drew real blood - not just a scratch and even now 2 days later the wound is clear to see. What the hell the DR was doing by shaking my hand with such nails I have no idea but I wont be going back to his clinic again that's for sure. I just need a 100 percent clear from you based on the reality of what my circumstance was please.

[nursegirl6572]

I just posted this on another thread...but I'll repeat it again.

For starters, I don't usually give short abrupt replies, I give as many details as I can.  Not to mention, I've penned a few informative pieces about HIV that can be found both in the health pages, and in my journal list.  There is a LOT of detail in those journals.  Feel free to read them.

HIV requires a set of near PERFECT circumstances to allow for infection.  Everything must be in place, not ONE aspect of the transmission process can be missing or impaired.  That being said, the reason why MOST blood to blood scenarios do not constitute a risk is because one or more of these factors are not present/functional:

1.  The virus MUST be viable and infectious.  The virus is extremely fragile and begins to break down immediately upon exposure to the environment.  The structure of the outer shell of the viral particle is responsible for adhering, or latching onto the receptive T-cells in the negative person. Even if the virus isn't 100% inactive, the outer shell becomes damaged immediately, which will affect its ability to bond with those T-Cells.

2.  There must be exposure to a SIGNIFICANT amount of infectious fluids to allow for transmission, not a drop or two.  There is not enough blood in most blood to blood scenarios to allow for this.

3.  The wound on the receptive (negative) person must be significant to allow access to the bloodstream.  As I already explained a year ago, the skin is compromised of many protective layers.  That protection actually works in the event of a blood borne pathogen.  We're not talking about a hearty bacteria.  The mode of transmission is completely different.  The skin serves as an excellent barrier.

Those factors are all essential, and JUST the vulnerability of the virus is almost always enough to discount a blood to blood scenario as a risk.

I can't keep repeating myself...if you can't or won't accept that you didn't have a risk, that's up to you.  The only way you'll know for sure is to test I guess.

[veryworriedanxiety]

I know I have replied several months later but this appears to be the deal thread similar to my situation

[veryworriedanxiety]

Surely a fingernail making a clear cut by scratching then dissolves the statement of the skin being made up of several protective layers as surely is the wound is sufficient to bleed as happened to me yesterday in a GUM clinic of all places when doctor shook my hand to say by and cut my hand with his fingernail - resulting in bleeding for several minutes on a small wound - approx 6mm but deep - would this not be direct access to the blood stream? and if he had blood under his nail or blood or secretions from a prior patient etc?

Please do not be offended by my question but there seems to be an ethos on here for short abrupt answers which I can understand when people repeat the same question but I urge you to consider the anxiety we have and I truly believe my case is a genuine risk although I hope and pray it is not.

Please can you reply to inform me

Thank you to you and all the other responders who give up your time help people going through this

[nursegirl6572]

The reason a needle would be a risk (in a drug sharing scenario) is because one, the virus in the blood is preserved inside the airtight bore of the needle, and two, because a person injects that blood DIRECTLY into the bloodstream.

The virus has to reach the bloodstream to allow for infection.  That is not going to happen with a superficial scratch.  The skin is comprised of MANY layers and it does its job of protecting us from all kinds of infections (HIV included) for that very reason.  PLUS, the HIV virus is so fragile that it cannot maintain its infectiousness outside of the body.

You can NOT get HIV from being scratched by a + person, bleeding or not.

[babylon123]

one more question.
“It requires unprotected anal or vaginal sex, sharing IV drug works, or from mother to child."  does it mean that i don't have to worry about other ways?  

[Teak]

No it doesn't change response to you and it doesn't matter if the person that scratched you was positive or not. You never had an exposure.

[babylon123]

one last quesion.

the scratches are hard and it is several times. Most importantly, the scratcher is proved to be hiv positive.   does it increase the chance of contracting HIV. Does it change your mind?  
Thanks a lot for your reply.

[Teak]

What part of, you can't contract HIV from being scratched is it you can't comprehend?

[babylon123]

btw, another question.
I know daily life cannot transmit HIV. But I am just wondering if my situation exceeds the range of normal daily life?  Because people rarely get scratched by others(especially he is hiv+ !!)  and bleed in "daily life".  It is still "daily life"???  (no sex,no drug,obviously not mother to child for me)    Thanks!

[Teak]

Your situation isn't even close. You never had an exposure.

[babylon123]

i heard nurse get pricked by a needle and bleed, he or she should get tested for hiv.  I think my situation is very similar to the needle prick. that's why i am worried. could you explain the difference and why is it no risk in my case?  
Thank you very much!

[Teak]

You never had an exposure and you've been advised of it several time and no you do not need to test.

[babylon123]

thanks teak,
basically i was scratched by a hiv+ man several times in a party. I bleed. don't know if he bleed or not. But suppose he bleeds and there is blood under his fingernail and on his finger.  Am I at risk of contracting HIV? Do I need a test?  Thank you very much.

[Teak]

If you believe you have been exposed to HIV and want help to judge your risk, would like advice about HIV testing, or have questions about the effectiveness of condoms or risks associated with specific sexual practices, this is the site for you.

Now do you have a possible exposure to discuss?

[babylon123]

Thank you very much for your explanation,nursegirl, i have a follow-up..

I heard one drop of blood is enough to make infection of HIV. Is that true? if it needs to be a large amount of blood, then why does the needle spread the HIV? (it is very few amount of blood attached on the needle,kind of contradictary)  
If there is his body fluid or blood on his fingers or under fingernails, it will come in contact with my blood. I think it is dangerous, right? do I need a test?
Thanks again!

[RainLover71]

The HIV virus is so fragile outside the body that it becomes damaged very quickly,the outer shell is very weak once exposed to air.

[nursegirl6572]

The only time a blood to blood exposure would be a risk is if two people both sustained catastrophic hemorrhaging wounds that would require immediate medical attention and most likely sutures.  Then, both people would basically have to bleed all over each other.

Your situation was ZERO risk.  You have nothing to worry about.  HIV cannot infect outside of the host (body).  It requires unprotected anal or vaginal sex, sharing IV drug works, or from mother to child.