HIV Study - Delayed Seroconversion

Can anyone make sense of this study? Why did the patients in the study seroconvert so late? According to the study the maximum a patient seroconverted was 42+months (3.5 years)! Please leave your comments stating what your interpertation of this study is. Copy and paste this link in your broswer to see the study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2512827&dopt=Abstract

[lemmenoe]

This was 20 over years ago...is this too old a study?

42 months?????

[Niceguy82]

22 years to be exact. But its scary to think that only 20 years ago people were seroconverting 42+ months. That's 3 years! The study examined 24 homosexual men and found that the maximum seroconversion was 42 months and the minimum seroconversion was 6 months. This study has really made me uneasy. How could we say 3 months as conclusive if only 20 years ago people were seroconverting between 6-42 months.

[lemmenoe]

i really don't know.
but if there isn't any real truth to it, then how come everyone is preaching that???
the other thing is we come from various parts of the world - how sure are we all tests are the latest generation?
i asked the lab when i went for a test about the generation - and she just said "not sure, but normally 6 months is OK, but if you still have problems, then test again at 9 months".
i was like - does it matter? is it 6 or 9 or even 3 or 1 year, or ?????
i have conflicting opinions from 3 medical practitioners - 1 said 6 months, 2nd one said 9 months, 3rd said could go to 1 year.

tiring isn't it???

don't be mistaken - i hope this 3 months opinion is really correct, I REALLY DO, but there are crazy amount of uncertainties in so many areas...

[Niceguy82]

Wow, you received three diffrent window periods? 6, 9, and 12months?! Which one is it?! That is absolutley crazy. The Medical community really have to get together on this 'window period' and make a desicion! And now I find older studies of people taking years to seroconvert but some doctors now will give you a 'OK' after 3 months.

[crazybear]

The Doctor at the Hospital told me 3 months and the lab told me 4 months

[Niceguy82]

So now we have 3,4,6,9, and 12 months. This is insane. Anyway, even if it's 3 months, how have we went from a seroconversion of 3 years (42 months) to 3 months? I really can't see Tests improving that much over 20 years.

[lemmenoe]

This is really very troubling.
Experts online all say 3 months though.

[crazybear]

The weirdest was that when I did get tested at 3 month she was I was fine then she said if you get a boyfriend and want to have sexual relations have him get tested at 3 months then 6 months

[lemmenoe]

A very nice lady doctor attended to me most recently. When I obtained my negative 8.5 months elisa, I asked her is it conclusive?

She said "Are you asking you are the 0.5% to 1% of late seroconverter? Well, nothing is 100% in medical science. All I can say you tested up to 8.5 months. If you ask me a frank opinion whether you need to go for another test, the answer is no."

[interestedparty71]

The only relevant studies are those done on the latest generation of tests. Experts now never see seroconversion after three months and rarely see it after 6-8 weeks.

HIV detection (and indeed treatment) is unrecognisable from what it was 20 years ago, in pretty much every country.

[crazybear]

Yeah I dont want to keep getting test after test

[interestedparty71]

You dont need to. A test at three months is conclusive.

[crazybear]

I took my first test 10 days and the second I think I took my test around 10 weeks and 3 days thou but the lady wont let me come back to get another test because she thinks im crazy and the Hospital wont test me ethire because they dont think I had a risk soooooo??

[interestedparty71]

what was your exposure?

[crazybear]

I have 3
1.. A staple in my chair I was looking for my xbox cord and got poked on the finger.
2. I cut my foot on glass the cut was on the side of my toe going down and my cousin who self harms cuts himself and never cleans up his blood so maybe I walked in it (this is the one im mostly worried about)
3.snice I didnt use a band-aid on my finger from the staple maybe I got it at the store cause im always there touching things.

[interestedparty71]

I am shocked you were offered any testing at all. What a waste of time and money. None of the three 'exposures' you describe put you remotely at risk of contracting HIV, because it becomes inactive upon exposure to the environment.

[crazybear]

Can you please answer a few more questions

1. Does it matter the amout of blood because he cuts pretty deep and alot its on the floor
2. Can you have a sore throat for a month,swollen glands and pain and groin and not have HIV?
3. If I didnt have any exposures but had symptoms of acute HIV and the perfect time-line would you say get tested?

[interestedparty71]

1.no
2.Yes, probably in about 99.9% of cases those symptoms wont indicate HIV.
3. No, I would say you have no need to test. HIV testing should only be undertaken in the event of an exposure which could have lead to transmission. Your 'exposures' do not fall into that category.

[LIZZIE LOU]

3 months is CONCLUSIVE.

crazybear...dont hijack someone's thread with your NON EXISTANT risks.  time to move along.

[Niceguy82]

LIZZIE LOU, what's your opinion on the study I cited above? With persons seroconverting 3 years to 6 months.

[LIZZIE LOU]

just gave you my opinion...3 months is conclusive

[Niceguy82]

Lizzie, don't you see anything concerning about this study? I mean only 20 years ago doctors were not able disgnose HIV until after 6-42 months after infection! 20 years later we're comfortable with 3 months?

[LIZZIE LOU]

good lord...do you know how ridiculous that sounds?  20 YEARS is a helluva long time ! ! !

[Vance2335]

20 years ago...do you know what the internet was 20 years ago?

[NY152]

This study is absurd in 2012. In 1990, there was no p24 test, duotest. In 1990, EIA tests were the first generation. Realize how radically technology improves every year.

[Niceguy82]

Well, Yes it was 22 years ago, but have tests really cut down the window period from up to 42 months to just 3 months?! If that indeed happen it might be the biggest feat in Medicine ever. There is just too much uncertainity in HIV testing. Doctors can't even agree in the window period. Doctors! Not you or me, but professionals in the medical field can't agree! They give various window periods, e.g. 3, 4, 5, 6, and 12 months. Crazy!

[Vance2335]

Your irrational words speak volumes.

[LIZZIE LOU]

just because someone has a M.D. after their name does not mean they are hiv educated.

you wont hear any hiv specialist, in the modern world, say that you need to test out past 3 months.

[Niceguy82]

Its a shame that in 2011 (almost 2012) the medical community cannot agree on the diagnostic window period for such a horrible disease. If its 3 months, all Doctors should say 3 months. I've tested out to 6 months and I'm still unsure of my status.

[LIZZIE LOU]

would you send your wife to a proctologist to have a baby?  NO...it's not his specialty.

[RainLover71]

Read what the doctors in the expert forum have to say about Hiv window periods.You are going back to the dark ages if you continue to mention the whole 22 years ago latent seroconversion cases.It won't be long before the 3 Month window period is reduced to 6 weeks.

[LIZZIE LOU]

"it wont be long before the 3 month window period is reduced to 6 weeks"

that is misleading.   there is no information out that the window period will be reduced "before long"

[RainLover71]

Wrong,in Australia it's being considered.Some clinics in Sydney are already using it.Please do not confuse this with US guidelines.

[LIZZIE LOU]

this forum is U.S. based and we follow the guidelines accordingly.  

[bomber18]

Guys think of it this way: the human body will not seronconvert differently nowadays than in the nineties. It is the same body so yes the study still applies nowadays and the tests are not accurate. Listen to the documentary 'numbers' about hiv and you will learn about it from experts also. I still cannot believe that i am not hiv+ within me having aids symptoms. Last test done at 6+ months mark.

[RainLover71]

I know it is.Not suggesting otherwise.Just saying what Sydney clinics are advising for any Australians that maybe using this forum.

[RainLover71]

Yes,but the tests these days are far better than the tests of the past and more sensitive and you never needed to test out to 6 Months.You wasted your time.You have the whole symptom thing going on in your mind.Let it go.You don't have Hiv.

[lemmenoe]

Like I mentioned, I REALLY REALLY hope the 3 MONTHS guideline is accurate.

The thing is, when you are being attended by doctors physically (and I have seen 3), none ever said 3 months.  I don't know why - in fact, I had 3 different answers - 6, 9 and 12 months.

I know you might say they are not "specialists", but these centres provide testing, so they must be educated to provide advise and assurance. So they must have been given guidelines by certain quarters (maybe the Government or even the disease control department - I don't know really).

That's where our problem lies, but having said this, again, I REALLY REALLY pray and want to believe the 3 months mark mentioned here is correct.

[RainLover71]

3 Months is more than enough time to produce detectable antibodies or p24 antigen.Most people will test positive by 6 weeks and that's a fact.This 6 to 12 month nonsense is old.

[Xp609pX]

If centres in your country still provide tests the same as 20 years ago, you should test for 6mos or longer.    infact I cannot understand why some places use these far-too outdated test methods.
after all if you highly doubt about the 3mos window period, you can test for 6mos, 1 or 2 years or even 100 years. no one here can help you, and no one here have the right to change the rule made by FDA. all we can do is too obey the rule.  so it's really useless to lay your stuff here, you should talk to FDA directly if you have different ideas.

[bomber18]

Nobody wishes or hope to be hiv poz but symptoms are driving us nuts.

[RainLover71]

symptoms mean nothing when you have received a conclusive negative result like you have.It's something else.

[LIZZIE LOU]

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/326070/ARS-SYMPTOMS-vs-ANXIETY

[bomber18]

Thanjs lizzie for the post. When you google 'anxiety symptoms' the first result is what you posted. I guess the person who listed these symptoms is exagerating. But you need not forget that most posters suffer also from enlarged lymph nodes that only appear where there is a REAL infection. So yes anxiety disorder causes physical symptoms but not all who are worried about hiv and why after a low risk encounter.
But thanks anyway for comforting the posters.

[LIZZIE LOU]

i've been on this forum for 5 years and i can tell you that MOST posters who report swollen lymph nodes, DONT actually have them once they see their dr.