Please take this oral question serious

[dummie96]

I know after reading these message boards what you guys are likely to say. But----, please.

I am gay, I am attracted to other guys. I made a mistake and did something I don't usually do, well, actually, this was a first. I gave a guy I do not know and who is probably sexually active (mistake 1) a blow job (mistake 2) and it was unprotected (mistake 3).

I am so upset with myself. I have had no other sexual exploits other than masturbating a few guys. Since then I took a HIV test and it was negative. I said I would not do anything with another guy I did not know and here I sit, dumb, dumb, dumber and s-c-a-r-e-d!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did not let him ejaculate in my mouth, i pulled off before that but there may have been some pre-fluid. The length of time was about 1 minute gently in the front of my mouth and maybe about 1 minute a biit more forcefully when he grabbed my head. That went deeper but not all the way back.

My oral health is good but I had a healed canker(?) sore on my lip, chapped lips and maybe a bit of pizza burn.

Do I need to test for this or can I consider myself still negative? Could I , assuming no further sexual transgressions in the future (please help me be strong and resist), have monogamous sex with a future committed partner without another test?


Facts:
1. So, I was absolutely negative and essentially a virgin and tested negative.
2. I gave a guy a blow job unprotected but not to completion.
3. The guy said he did not have anything but thinking back he seemed evasive (what if on my part) so he may not have known.

Question:
Do I need to test to be fair with myself or a future partner?

Please take my question serious, please.

[Teak]

Our answers are not going to change. Oral sex does not transmit HIV ejaculation or not.

[Teak]

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANSFIELD

"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD

"I am sure you can find lots of people who believe that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA
"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." Dr. Hook
"The observation on thousands and thousands of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK
"I would not say your risk ,if he had HIV is "slim to none"- that's too high.  I would say they are effectively zero.  How much of his ejaculate or other genital  secretions you may have swallowed makes no difference.  EWH "
"As far as HIV is concerned, there is no known risk of getting HIV from performing oral sex on an infected partner, even if that person's genital secretions get into your eyes or if you swallow." Dr.Hook
HIV is not spread by oral sex, giving or receiving, even if sores, gum disease or blood is present
DR HOOK

[dummie96]

Sigh, I am sorry to be back, sigh :(.

I have not been able to re-establish contact with the fellow I gave head to. This because I go to school and work and we apparently are on such different schedules, we never seem to cross. So, I was at the Y and doing the treadmill and a fellow I do know, just as a friend tells me he thinks that guy is positive, gossip sort of thing , maybe not even on meds. So, now, after worrying sick over it for several days I saw a doctor today for a previous appointment, not anything to do with this fiasco. So I tell him about it all, he is a GP. He then treats me pretty bad, fusses, tells me it is very risky and I am nearly about to break down in the examination room over it all. I pretty much left. After regaining some composure, I am sitting here again trying to place this all in a framework I can understand.

1) Does the possibility that the friendly, handsome fellow that I gave a bj too (no ejaculation, per my first post) possibly being positive and not on meds change anything --do I need to take a test? Should I pick up and press ahead and continue to try and set this episode behind me?

2) Oral sex is not a reason to test and a doctor who is up on the science would know that and would have advised me that oral sex is not a real risk and I do not need to test over giving a partial bj (instead of scaring me to the point of actually throwing up on the way to my car) true statement?

3) I do not need to test for giving a bj?

:(

[dummie96]

Thank you Nursegirl and Mr. Teak and all. Your help has not been wasted on me. I know a bunch more than I knew and have a better understanding of all of this. Your help has been put to use already and I have passed on info to other people who were in danger of not being safe. So, I will move on now. You guys have answered my questions with patience and I have gotten my fair share, that is true. I will do my best to put this silliness behind me.

No response needed. Bye, best wishes,
Jamie

[nursegirl6572]

Course, it really is just a cold isn't it and I am being ridiculous--right?

YES.

Time to move on.  You've gotten more than your fair share of answers.

[Teak]

You don't have an HIV concern.

[dummie96]

At the risk of Teak or others coming to my apartment and strangling me-----

OK, you would know, I have a head cold. Not really a sore throat, maybe a bit scratchy, no chills really, just sneezing and runny nose. I thought it was an allergic attack I get a few times a year and sneeze and sneeze but this is more like a cold. I usually swim a mile a day or run 4 miles and last night I did not feel like doing anything but worrying and drinking wine in large amounts until I fell asleep. Now, I did swim my mile today so obviously I am not doing that poorly.

I was doing really good at putting this out of my head and now I am worrying again, is this a cold or is it ARS. I don't have a high fever, no sore throat, no aches, no rashes I can see, no swollen nodes. BUT--I never get sick, so thus my worry. Course, it really is just a cold isn't it and I am being ridiculous--right?

Sorry to be a weenie.

[Teak]

1. correct
2. correct
3. same as  2

Oral sex is not a concern for HIV.

[dummie96]

Because we are not supposed to start new thread and moving on from my previous questions, can I please ask the following so I can understand better the various risks.

1. A guy who has never done anything but give one unprotected fellatio to a guy of unknown status (could be high viral load or not or negative--unknown) and no ejaculation does NOT need to take an HIV test for this one potential or even likely exposure?

2. A guy who gives unprotected fellatio with no ejaculation occasionally on random guys of unknown status does not need to test for HIV but would need to screen regularly for other STDs?

3. A guy who gives occasional unprotected fellatio WITH ejaculation to random guys does not need to be tested for HIV but should be screened by his doctor for other STDs?

I know you might be upset with me since you answer similar questions all of the time but please answer so I can help formulate in my mind a rules of engagement so to speak.

I would never, purposely (rape excluded), allow unprotected anal (or vaginal) sex, I knew that already--NEVER EVER -- outside of a trusted and monogamous relationship. It is the oral thing I am trying to grasp in realistic terms.

Thanks a zillion.

[nursegirl6572]

WHY would we tell you to seek out nPEP when we have advised you you had NO risk??? Zero!!!  nPEP is reserved for real risks with a confirmed positive partner.

You need to let this go...you are letting anxiety spiral out of control!!

Again, YOU HAD NO RISK!  PERIOD!!

[dummie96]

Go ahead and fuss at me.

I went back to the gym hoping to run into the guy from my initial post, yes, I know his name, but I don't know him. I wanted to ask him, again, more forcefully if he told me the truth.

But, no luck, so I decided despite being in a depressed mood to do my usual mile swim. Afterwards I went back and showered and got dressed and was sitting on the bench crying when another guy I have talked to before asked me out for coffee and before he could finish his sentence I said NO! I embarrassed him and now I cried about that. So, I know if I went out with him, at some point I am going to be asked to do fellatio again, possibly, and thing is, I want to do it. So, I said no. How can I live like this.

Also, I am still inside, fast ending, the PEP window, should I do PEP? That is why I went to the gym because if the guy I gave the bj to gave me another evasive answer I was going to go to the emergency room and ask for it. But, no go, no luck.

So, intellectually I understand you guys say what I did was no risk. I think about it and figure, the one orifice in the human body that was actually meant to have stuff put into it is logically highly resistant to infection. I mean, after all, for thousands of years humans have been putting nasty stuff in their mouth and the human race is still here, huh? So, it makes sense that giving oral sex is low to no risk even if the partner is HIV pos?

I am sorry that I came back here, like I said, I have nobody to talk to on this.

[LIZZIE LOU]

doubt the counselor would smack you.

you had NO risk

[dummie96]

My last post. You are probably wondering why I took a HIV test if all I had done was give a couple of guys a hand job. Well, for one thing, I did not know what was and was not a risk, fully. I was at a Renaissance Festival type thing last fall and there was a local Activist and Out Reach type service group doing testing and counseling. I was standing there reading the literature at the booth and a nice man asked me had I ever been tested and I said no. He asked if I wanted to and I sheepishly went along. After he took the sample (some sort of rapidly test) he started asking questions and started laughing out loud at me, in a nice way. I was so scared I was fainting and he was patting me on the back telling me it was all OK. He told me how to be safe and of course the pamphlet I collected states not to do unprotected blow jobs. This is why I want to knock the day lights out of me! I was told not to.

I bet that counselor would smack me too if he knew what I had just done because I told him I was not sexually active, I don't think he believed me though. And I wasn't, until now. Dang, dang.

[dummie96]

Thanks, sorry about the blond joke, hey ;).

I am just so freaking mad at myself I could just sit here and punch myself, really. I hit myself so hard I am seeing stars. I am just so mad at myself I want to hit something and I am the only thing handy.

OK, OK, settle down, OK. Sounds like you guys are saying what I figured you would say. No test needed, no risk. Just remember, this is not something many people understand well. I know one thing, my compassion for this has just gone up ten notches. Some people must be simply amazing in their strength, like super people or something.

OK, thanks, I will try and make this my last ;) --or next to last post.

[LIZZIE LOU]

#1...WE TAKE ALL QUESTIONS SERIOUSLY...HIV IS NOT A GAME

#2...WE KNOW THAT BEING GAY MEANS THAT YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO OTHER MEN

#3...BEING BLONDE DOESNT MAKE ONE DUMB

YOU HAD NO RISK

[dummie96]

Thanks. I am just really scared and do not have anyone to talk to. Oh, I did not have any mouth wash handy cuz I was not planning this activity. So, I sprayed my mouth out with a hand water spray and then put liquid body soap in my mouth (which tasted really bad) and then gargled with the soap (which was way worse tasting) and spit it all out. I am so stupid. And, I am blond, so it all fits. WTH was I thinking.