Aa
Fish Oil Revisited-Friend or Foe??
Several months ago, I wrote to you about some studies' that show Fish Oil Supplementation has a tendancy to INCREASE LDL.
Well, apparently, that seems to hold true, at least in my case.
Before Fish Oil my lipids were: TC-180 and Direct LDL-87.
Only 6 months later, without a dietary change, my lipids went to TC-235 and direct LDL of 150. Tri's remained boderline high at 170-200.
My cardiologist is having my blood retested this week, as he thinks a lab error occured.
(1) Is it possible in 6 months for a TC and LDL to Increase that much without significant dietary change?
(2) Are Lab Errors Common?
(3) The only other medication I added between tests were Zoloft, hydrochlorothiaizide and Toprol XL-Would any of those have a lipid effect?
(4) What is the current thinking on Fish Oil-Friend or Foe?
Well, apparently, that seems to hold true, at least in my case.
Before Fish Oil my lipids were: TC-180 and Direct LDL-87.
Only 6 months later, without a dietary change, my lipids went to TC-235 and direct LDL of 150. Tri's remained boderline high at 170-200.
My cardiologist is having my blood retested this week, as he thinks a lab error occured.
(1) Is it possible in 6 months for a TC and LDL to Increase that much without significant dietary change?
(2) Are Lab Errors Common?
(3) The only other medication I added between tests were Zoloft, hydrochlorothiaizide and Toprol XL-Would any of those have a lipid effect?
(4) What is the current thinking on Fish Oil-Friend or Foe?
I know of no well done studies that show any proven benefits to taking Coenzyme Q. These supplements are touted by the nonregulated producers with most claims totally unsubstanciated.Those who say low levels of CoenQ exist would need to run an appropriate study to prove this and then show taking a supplement would in fact increase Co enQ levels. Next they need to show that taking the supplement would in some way be benefical . Sooo... until then popping CoenQ will mean more profits for the supplement companies and given the outrageous cost of this supplement some very valuable urine.
"What do you think about taking CoQ10? I take Zocor and now I am worried whether or not I should take CoQ10. Did your EP tell you why you shouldn't take CoQ10? I am afraid that the Zocor will lower my CoQ10 levels to the point where I get Heart Failure."
If I were you, I would be taking CoQ10 regardless of what a doctor says. Keep in mind that not everybody has depleted CoQ10 levels. I suspect many don't have that particular side effect. I believe their genetics play a role in it. But I don't see anything wrong with taking extra CoQ10 just to be safe.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that statins are remarkably effective at reducing cholesterol but are grossly overprescribed by doctors. I believe many of us don't really need statins only if we improve our diet and activity. If the combo program fails, then a statin therapy will do wonders.
-jeff
If I were you, I would be taking CoQ10 regardless of what a doctor says. Keep in mind that not everybody has depleted CoQ10 levels. I suspect many don't have that particular side effect. I believe their genetics play a role in it. But I don't see anything wrong with taking extra CoQ10 just to be safe.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that statins are remarkably effective at reducing cholesterol but are grossly overprescribed by doctors. I believe many of us don't really need statins only if we improve our diet and activity. If the combo program fails, then a statin therapy will do wonders.
-jeff
What do you think about taking CoQ10? I take Zocor and now I am worried whether or not I should take CoQ10. Did your EP tell you why you shouldn't take CoQ10? I am afraid that the Zocor will lower my CoQ10 levels to the point where I get Heart Failure.
"Whats the deal with coq10? My ep dr told me not to take that."
I would question your doctor if I were you. Here's a link:
http://www.chfpatients.com/stew/coq10.htm
It lists several studies regarding CoQ10 treatments for heart patients.
-jeff
I would question your doctor if I were you. Here's a link:
http://www.chfpatients.com/stew/coq10.htm
It lists several studies regarding CoQ10 treatments for heart patients.
-jeff
Hi Erik - I took Niaspan for about a week and broke out in a horrible case of hives. My doc discontinued it immediately.
Hi Erik,
I take 500mg Niacin at bedtime. I take an OTC brand by Spring Valley called "No Flush" Niacin (I buy it at Wal-Mart). By taking both it and the Omega 3 at bedtime, I sleep through any uncomfortable side effects... but, with the "No Flush" Niacin, I have very little of the awful "hot flashes" I got when taking Niaspan. I have mitral valve regurgitation and (so far) poorly controlled hypertension. My Cardiologist just adjusted my Avapro to 450mg a day in 150mg doses 3 times a day. (The normal upper limit is 300mg), plus 40mg of Lasix, which appears to be controlling the BP (finally). I was concerned about the effect of the Niaspan on the Avapro (I phoned the pharmaceutical company and they told me to "not" combine the two), but I have had no problems with the OTC Niacin, and juding by the results I have seen, I will stay on it as long as it continues to work so well.
I take 500mg Niacin at bedtime. I take an OTC brand by Spring Valley called "No Flush" Niacin (I buy it at Wal-Mart). By taking both it and the Omega 3 at bedtime, I sleep through any uncomfortable side effects... but, with the "No Flush" Niacin, I have very little of the awful "hot flashes" I got when taking Niaspan. I have mitral valve regurgitation and (so far) poorly controlled hypertension. My Cardiologist just adjusted my Avapro to 450mg a day in 150mg doses 3 times a day. (The normal upper limit is 300mg), plus 40mg of Lasix, which appears to be controlling the BP (finally). I was concerned about the effect of the Niaspan on the Avapro (I phoned the pharmaceutical company and they told me to "not" combine the two), but I have had no problems with the OTC Niacin, and juding by the results I have seen, I will stay on it as long as it continues to work so well.
Whats the deal with coq10? My ep dr told me not to take that. Anyone have any idea why he may have said that. If its so important?
Thank you very much Doctor for the information. I greatly appreciate it.
Prior to taking Omega 3 Fish Oil (1000mg) and Niacin (500mg) my triglyceride count was 1895 and my cholesterol was heading towards 400. I cannot use the statins or fibrates because of allergic reactions and liver problems. After just 6 weeks on the Omega 3 and Niacin, my triglycerides dropped almost 1600 points to 334 and my cholesterol dropped to 247. I was stunned and my doctor was delighted. Needless to say, I am continuing the regiment, quite happily.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
You are focusing on to many details with this. There isn't alot of data regarding the effects of these oils on HDL.
If you are interested in increasing your lipid profile, I would suggest you look more into complete lifestyle modification as opposed to pills and supplements.
I would suggest you look into dietary modifications with combinations of plant sterols, high fiber and elements of the mediterranian diet. Aggressive physical activity, and hopefully tobacco absinence (if you smoke). These will have a greater impact on your HDL then any type of supplement or medication currently available.
good luck
I have had the problem of low cholesterol both LDL and HDL for years. My readings run anywhere from 121/25, 125/15, 129/21, etc.. I have been told by doctors to exercise more like walking. After becoming debilitated with afib and pvc's last fall from thirty two years of the mess, I have not been able to do much walking. But I had those low readings of cholesterol a long time even when I was able to walk a minimum of three miles daily. I had a PVA performed almost eight weeks ago and no more afib but still plagued with pvc's that are terrible. They prevent me from doing much walking. Right now I'm trying to survive the damnable things.
Also, I have been told by two different doctors in past years to always take a good CoQ10 everyday for my heart. Is this not correct? Right now I am taking Quione Gold 100 mg.
Glenn
Also, I have been told by two different doctors in past years to always take a good CoQ10 everyday for my heart. Is this not correct? Right now I am taking Quione Gold 100 mg.
Glenn
Do you take prescription Niaspan or OTC Niacin? Also, did you get flushing with the Niacin? And if so, how long before it went away? Have you ever had palpitations either before or after begining the Niacin? My doctor gave me Niaspan 500mg and I am scared to take it because I get PVC's, PAC's and some A-Fib. I am afraid it will aggravate them. Any input on your Niacin experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Erik
Erik
I Was going to start taking fish oil for my HDL when Cardio RCJ stated in a recent post that he had stopped recommending it to his patients because a study had shown that it actually caused Arrhythmias. Do you know if Flax Seed Oil may cause the same thing? Also, will Niaspan cause my PVC's, PAC's and A-Fib to get worse? Sorry to ask you a question from a comment.
One thing, statins may reduce cholesterol. But does it prevent deaths? I don't know. In fact, statins has shown to worsen heart function causing severe irregular heartbeats. It is believed that it's because it depletes CoQ10. Without CoQ10, your heart cannot beat because CoQ10 provides energy.
http://www.n3inc.com/SmartMoney%20Reprint_103003Web.pdf
-jeff
http://www.n3inc.com/SmartMoney%20Reprint_103003Web.pdf
-jeff
The so called experts always seem to find good in something only to say later that it may actually cause problems..It's not going to stop me taking fish oil supplements..I hate fish so at least via the fish oil tablet i get some of the goodness that fish can give you.
I mean let's be honest, fish is good for you so why not carry on taking the supplements.
I mean let's be honest, fish is good for you so why not carry on taking the supplements.
"(4) What is the current thinking on Fish Oil-Friend or Foe?"
Just a while ago, a doctor said he stopped recommending fish oil because a new study found that it increased the risk of VT in some patients.
However, a newer study came up saying the opposite. The major difference in that study is that they injected omega-3 oil in their blood and they delibratedly induced dangerous arrythmia.
"In the study, researchers injected the patients with an infusion of omega-3 fatty acids and then tried to induce an episode of ventricular tachycardia. At the start of the study, researchers were able to induce this irregular heartbeat in seven out of 10 of the participants.
After the fish oil infusion was delivered, researchers were only able to induce the arrhythmia in two of the patients, and the second was only after a more aggressive attempt. In the remaining five, the fish oil appeared to prevent the irregularity."
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/86/99043.htm
-jeff
Just a while ago, a doctor said he stopped recommending fish oil because a new study found that it increased the risk of VT in some patients.
However, a newer study came up saying the opposite. The major difference in that study is that they injected omega-3 oil in their blood and they delibratedly induced dangerous arrythmia.
"In the study, researchers injected the patients with an infusion of omega-3 fatty acids and then tried to induce an episode of ventricular tachycardia. At the start of the study, researchers were able to induce this irregular heartbeat in seven out of 10 of the participants.
After the fish oil infusion was delivered, researchers were only able to induce the arrhythmia in two of the patients, and the second was only after a more aggressive attempt. In the remaining five, the fish oil appeared to prevent the irregularity."
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/86/99043.htm
-jeff
I am anxious to see the response about fish oil. I am taking Res-Q 1250. The manufacturers of this fish oil supplement claim that you should take up to 8 of these pills a day (ea capsule contains 400mg EPA, and 300mg DHA). I take one. Eight sounds excessive--more like a sales tactic--- They are on the radio here twice a week and claim that this dosage of their product will eventually make your arteries healthy again (elasticity)--along with proper diet. Anyone have any info on this product? They have a web site at www.n3inc.com for anyone that may want to review their claims.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
jerry,
thanks for the post.
1) Yes. There are other factors that can also influence the lab value such as amount of time fasting and recent diet. We see significant changes in lipid profiles based on timing. Medications can change the profile also in as short as a few weeks.
2) I would interpret the values more in the context above. Lab errors can occur, but often timing of the test is a more important source of vaiablity.
3) No, not to a great extent. Hydrochlorothiazide has been associated with abnormalities in lipid levels in higher doses, but not in the doses typically used for hypertension (25 mg).
4) Jerry, most likely friend. Observational and trial data thus far have found an association with the intake of long chain fatty acids found in fish and a decreased risk of dying from coronary heart disease. There are 3 large studies underway that hopefully will confirm this association. I don't necessarily suggest buying and consuming large amounts of OTC supplements, but a diet that includes fish intake several times a week is generally what I recommend.
Netrox -- Statins are one of the most studied medications in the history of heart disease. There is a large amount proof in the form of multiple, large, randominzed controlled studies showing the proof and magnitude of the benefit of statin therapy in the prevention of the complications of coronary heart disease, including mortality. There are a paucity of data on many websites and isolated case reports put out by supplement companies that suggest the benefits of various neutraceuticals including CoQ10 in order to hawk these drugs.
thanks for the post.
1) Yes. There are other factors that can also influence the lab value such as amount of time fasting and recent diet. We see significant changes in lipid profiles based on timing. Medications can change the profile also in as short as a few weeks.
2) I would interpret the values more in the context above. Lab errors can occur, but often timing of the test is a more important source of vaiablity.
3) No, not to a great extent. Hydrochlorothiazide has been associated with abnormalities in lipid levels in higher doses, but not in the doses typically used for hypertension (25 mg).
4) Jerry, most likely friend. Observational and trial data thus far have found an association with the intake of long chain fatty acids found in fish and a decreased risk of dying from coronary heart disease. There are 3 large studies underway that hopefully will confirm this association. I don't necessarily suggest buying and consuming large amounts of OTC supplements, but a diet that includes fish intake several times a week is generally what I recommend.
Netrox -- Statins are one of the most studied medications in the history of heart disease. There is a large amount proof in the form of multiple, large, randominzed controlled studies showing the proof and magnitude of the benefit of statin therapy in the prevention of the complications of coronary heart disease, including mortality. There are a paucity of data on many websites and isolated case reports put out by supplement companies that suggest the benefits of various neutraceuticals including CoQ10 in order to hawk these drugs.
You are reading content posted in the Heart Disease Forum
Is a low-fat diet really that heart healthy after all? James D. Nicolantonio, PharmD, urges us to reconsider decades-long dietary guidelines.
Can depression and anxiety cause heart disease? Get the facts in this Missouri Medicine report.
Fish oil, folic acid, vitamin C. Find out if these supplements are heart-healthy or overhyped.
Learn what happens before, during and after a heart attack occurs.
What are the pros and cons of taking fish oil for heart health? Find out in this article from Missouri Medicine.
How to lower your heart attack risk.
