At my wits end, chest pain, arm pain, pvc's

[spartan94]

I'm looking for some clarity and sanity. I turn 34 years old today, and the last 10 month have really been difficult.

Christmas 05 - I went to the ER with chest pain in the center of my chest. I had been having some arm and jaw pains with and without the chest pain. Brought on during stress at work.  My BP was 250/150. I have high cholesterol and am a bit overweight. Parents in their 50's, no known CAD.  All tests came back fine - including a thallium stress test with exercise.

April 06 - continued chest pains during stress and sometimes at rest, sometimes dead center, sometimes more of a "fullness" in my upper chest.  Same jaw and arm pain.  64 slice CT ordered. NO calcium, no other blockages seen.

Since May 06 I haven't had much of that center chest pain, however I developed PVC's that drive me nuts, and sometimes make me feel I'm winded.  When I get the PVC's many times I get jaw, shoulder, neck and arm pain with them.  I ignored them for a while but finally went and got a stress echo (July 06) - again it was fine.

It's like I progressed from this dead center chest pain a few times over 5 months, to these PVC's. The jaw, neck, shoulder, and arm pain has continued to become more frequent and intense. In fact, my jaw hurts right now as I have PVC's.  But, no center chest pain.  The dead center chest pain was VERY Different than the PVC's. However I'm worried something was missed, or is progressing? Stress didn't CAUSE this, I'm stressed because of it.

Should I push for more tests - cardiac or otherwise (lyme? systemic?) I know so far, they say I'm clear.

[cmiller]

Hi Angie,

Well, girlfriend... best give you an update first before you take my advice.  Had two VERY difficult nights the past few days.   Not much sleep and a lot of palpitations and weakness... I think three factors contributed.   1. I worked out 2 days before - 30 laps in pool... while I can do it and feel good while doing it.. my body may not yet have capacity to recover yet, 2. was feeling so good started to pare down the K and Mg dose, and 3.  also ate a large amount of carbohydrates each evening - pasta or cerial. Interestingly, in my case I found that if I crawled around on the flood or otherwise kept moving it seemed to help.   Also do breathing... draw in 5 sec, hold 20 sec, blow out 4 sec, repeat as needed.

And yet today, with so little sleep I feel amazingly good... just a little tired, but not as tired as I might in the past with so little sleep over a two day period.  I am REALLY surprised.  Heart is whisper quiet.  Also I've found that i am calmer overall, so I think Mg (whether you find out you are low intercellularly or not) will probably help you too.  You just need to be really careful because I do not know about all the other meds you are taking and how they might interact.    What I've learned (I think) is:  This is going to take a longer time than I think..  I also learned a few things about mg at this site which make sense as far as how much, what type, how often:

http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html

I think it will give you some idea of how much to take.   I think on another part of this web I talked about making a bone soup... you might want to consider that.  I made one today and it could also be what is contributing to how I feel now.

Here's more info:

http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/mg/109308.html#109575

here's another web site.... I have so many of the symptoms, it is scary... so scary in fact I am afraid I have been having TIAs at night (when I was saying I was waking in trance).  

http://mdheal.org/magnesiu1.htm

I finally called my Primary doc and said I want to meet with an endocrinologist- one specializing in mineral metabolism.  Have not yet heard back yet.  I am going to get my RBC Mg done somehow, if for no other reason than baseline. I  wish they would measure it at 4 am when I'm feeling like hell.  You can tell from the papers that even if you are deficient, they can't always tell.  and there is no way I am ever agreeing to an EMG ever again.  (where they do muscle conductance... have to stick big pins in you to do it... no damn way)

I know doctors care, and at the same time I feel so much on my own in this.  believe me, even this small connection is a big blessing. I have no intention of going forward without resolving this.  wish I had more to say.  by the way, I have read also that bromelain can be wonderful for generating a feeling of well being (reduce anxiety), as well as Kava kava.  I bought some bromelain and will try kava at some point.  you might want to research those on line too.

cmiller

[rhythmAKL]

Hi CMiller, I went to the "magnesium and heart disease" link and found the site for "Exatest".  I printed it and faxed it to my cardiologist to read incase he is not aware of it already.  He is out of town until Monday, so I hope he will contact me soon after he returns.  I appreciate your response a bunch.  I feel so torn at times each day, and it makes it hard to know if I am having side effects(real ones) or if what I am feeling is anxiety from the unknown. The arrythmias are not as strong but they are still there from time to time. I get scared when I think too long about the amiodarone being used as a last resort, but I am taking comparatively low doses (100mg in the am and same in the pm) and the beta blocker Toprol XL at night too(50mg).  My cardiologist is very open to complimentary treatments, and he even suggested the possiblity of me having undiagnosed Lyme disease due to the irregularities of my heart, but a normal structure shown in Echo's and an MRI.  Also, the chronic pain/aching in my knees(for 20+ years) fell into the untreated/undiagnosed Lyme disease possibility. I had an embedded tick as a child and I am 45 now.  Back then, if I had had symptoms of the Lyme, it could have been mistaken by my parents as the flu etc... I am taking a low dose twice a day of Flagyl(an antibiotic) which is one of the choices for treatment of Lyme and I feel like it does help.  He also suggested a product/supplement called "Transfer Factor".  I had to find it online as the Health Food store was not aware of it.  It is a immune system rebuilder of sorts made from bovine colostrum and/or egg yolks.  I am taking Ca and Mg together in one capsule 2 twice a day that are equivalent to 1000mg Ca and 500 mg of Mg.  Not taking any K since the hospitalization in August.  Do you think the amount is enough and should I get some K or wait to see about the intracelluar levels can be determined? Just open to your opinion here!!!  
Thank you,
Angie

[cmiller]

Hi there!!  

Hang in there!!!   Here's what you have to do... STAND ON YOUR HEAD. Hop up and down until you get what you need.   I mean it, until you find a doctor and say... look...   I need to find a way to do this because what is happening now AIN"T working.   So your question is not "can I do this", it is WHEN I DO THIS, HOW CAN I DO THIS with the MOST safely?  and unless they can demonstrate to you that there is NO WAY this can work, then they have to help you figure out a way to do it.   Ok the other thing I guess I would do is stand on my head until they agree to do a RBC Mg and K level.  The trick is they may have no clue how to do it.  you mgith need to find an independent lab... not sure.
these people can do it: http://www.exatest.com/.  Also go to this web site:  http://www.lef.org/quest-com.html . call their help line... maybe they can offer suggestions on how to talk your doctor into this.      

I went to a complementary medicine specialist on monday this week... how refreshing.  It was almost hilarious because he was trying to convince me that taking Mg and K supplments were ok AND that you really couldn't tell Mg levels from plasma... you needed to do RBCs.  This after I had been screaming for a month begging for salts and saying the same thing to my other doctors!  It was too absurd, but at least it gives me hope that someone might be open to the options.  Dispite this I still don't have a full plan of how to get back to health.... I mean I feel great... maybe a little heat in over the heart like now... so how do I make sure I'm at homeostasis?  I guess I have to figure it out for myself.  Plus he is giving me the stress factor thing too, which can certainly be part of it, except man, when you feel how good it feels when you get the right Mg and K in your body... you will feel the change, like I did IMHO.


Debbie- thanks for the confirmation... we need to sing the praises of ca mg k supplementation... I keep getting better every day!!  (except hot flashes at night as I am starting peri menopause..according to my doctor of course that is impossible since I have not missed a period.  remind me to give my ovaries a good hard talking to about all of this because apparently they have not read the manual)

We need to get this spread across this forum.  It may not help everyone, AND I KNOW it will help a lot.  If I can ever get a question posted on the forum, I'm going to ask the cleveland clinic md's about it.

[rhythmAKL]

I have been reading these posts and they are truly helpful.  I too believe the mg, ca and K have a lot if not everything to do with heart ryhthm and wellness.  I am currently on some strong cardiac meds and not sure what to do.  My cardiologists is knowledgeable in the mineral deficiency possiblity, yet I am on meds AND minerals.  I have posted a question here yesterday regarding Arrhythmias and treatment side effects.  I will pursue more supplementation of the minerals.  I am not taking K at home, but they gave me LARGE oral doses in the hospital this past August.  I tell you all, it is very tough to deal with something wacky going on with your ticker....it has robbed me of joy....and JOY is what our heart's need.  I pray for everyone, especially those of us that have difficult heart irregularities.  I now am anxious of taking the meds, but pray for resolve and freedom from them eventually.  I hope the medical professionals can identify and unite on the mineral deficiency's being culprits.  I eat well balanced meals now, but possibly as a child and teen, I messed up my digestion and bowels enough that I do not absorb the minerals enough?  Who knows?  I do get relief from reading about other people and their similar issues, yet I feel empathetic due to the suffering nature irregular heart rhythms cause.
Bless you all....and me too!
Angie

[momof6]

Just wanted to encourage others that you are right on with the mg and potassium! Ive had palps for 10yrs. and 2yrs ago they got really bad. I started getting them in erratic beats and more skipped beats. I ended up in the ER 2yrs. ago that ended up giving me a three day pass on the cardiac floor:) All my test came back 'normal' other than I have a abnormal t-wave. Although they say that it is normal for me but havent always had it, still wondering how I inherited it.? So all my blood work comes back normal, until I go to my regular family doc after my hospital stay and he points out that while my blood work was normal my magn. and potassium was on the low side! He put me on slo-mag/calcium and a K tablet. Oh my goodness my palps have eased up so much! When I take them my heart does not feel aggitated as it did before. If I forget to take it first thing in the morning sometimes I feel as though my heart will feel aggitated and Ill have more palps, as soon as I take my meds. I feel the difference within 30min.! Im also on a beta blocker but I feel the slo-mag and potassium is what has kept my heart running smooth!
I hope many people will stop and listen to your words they are so true! I also grind my own wheat and make my own fresh bread, eat those fresh yummy veggies and cook with the e-virgin olive oil, and coconut oil(so good) also red palm oil is great for losing fat around the middle! great for frying with or just eat a teaspoon aday! what we put in our bodies is so important! Our bodies are crying out for good nutrition, we need to start listening. And lastly WATER! I started drinking lots of water, this keeps the body flushed and running smoothly too! I try to stay stress free too hard at times with homeschooling 6 children from teenagers to toddlers but praying, relaxation, and exercising is key in managing my stress. I used to get panic attacks and sometimes I wonder if that is what gave my heart a electrical change from being on high alert all the time with panic and hence causeing me to have palps. I guess we'll never know but our heart does speak to us and I believe there is a reason it does what it does. For example a year ago I lost a baby with a late m/c and hemmoraged. My heart went into a sinus tachy. My heart was beating so fast when alls I would do is stand up. It would go from 90 bpm at rest to 160bpm. when I would stand up and thats because it was beating fast from the loss of blood to make up the difference it had to beat fast so my body could recieve more oxygen. So sometimes what makes us feel like its not right really our hearts are doing exactly what they are suppose to do! Anyway didnt want to get off track but thanks for sharing your info. with everyone its so good!

Blessings~Debbie

[cmiller]

Thank you for your kind words.  I think we will all benefit from figuring this out together.  It is a frightening and frustrating experience. Good for you for having the determination to attempt to resolve this.  It is very hard to hear "it's stres".  Yes, of COURSE that plays a role, and chances are good that there are a few other things going on as well.  

Here's a link for you about magnesium.
http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/cardiac.html

The  more I read, the more convinced I am that Mg and K are the key. This site only confirms what I have read before.  BTW, my doctor agreed to the RBC K test...even though she said "have never had one done in 20 years"  when I went to a major university lab... they said we don't know how to do this!!  This link gives some sources!!  And now I know that intracellular Mg is even more important than K+.   Also this doc talks about relaxation being key as well.  I think he is right.  

In my humble opinion, the studies on electrolytes in cardiology are a mess- most test plasma only and studies use a single form  of potassium or magnesium supplements and then have the audacity to say that the electrolyte was not effective in effecting change.  It is clear that different forms of these ions (citrate, orotate, gluconate, chloride) can have different effects with different people or conditions.  I've noticed that myself as I respond quickly to K gluconate, whereas KCl seemed to take a lot longer.

Keep me posted on how you are doing.  Cmiller

[suzzie1]

Hello...  I just wanted to THANK YOU for taking the time, and caring enough to give all that information to those of us at our wits end with heart problems which in my case, and I know the same applies to a lot of people on this forum, has completely taken over how I live my life !!  I truly appreciate your help and wish you well with your health.!!! B-)

[cmiller]

I am sorry about your challenges.  I have been to the ER three times in the last month with chest pain as you describe, palitations shown as PACs via holter monitor.   All blood tests "Normal", plasma sodium slighly low 3.3/3.4, full cardio workup- normal.  depressed ST segement.  Most dramatic symptoms at night, wake up in trance, get up to go to bathroom, flood of weakness, pain in chest, burning in chest, hard palps. mood swings.   Scary. Told to go home... you have no problems.  I think it is combo perimenopause and electrolyte embalance due to heavy sweating from exercise without proper replacement.  I am a physiologist by training and so I started doing research in the medical literature and here is what I have done and have found to make a dramatic difference for me.  I am also tired of hearing that PACs are innocuous.  Overall they probably are not "DAMAGING" however, I believe our bodies try to tell us something so we can take care of it, and it should NOT be ignored if there is a way to address it.

1. Several studies confirm that plasma levels of potassium and magnesium do not always reflect what is happening at the cellular level.  You can be seriously deficient in these ions and it will not show up in plasma, and yet no US doctors that i know of test Red Blood cells or a less enjoyable procedure.. muscle punch to establish cellular levels of these critical ions.  These ions along with Calcium are absolutely critical for proper cardiac function. If I had it to do it all over I would stand on my head and scream until these ions were tested in RBCs (and pray that someone knew what they were doing as this test requires some skill) at the peak of my symptoms.

2. There is a study that shows that magnesium with potassium supplements can be very helpful in resolving arythmias in pts. who have normal potassium and sodium levels.  No one knows exactly how Mg works... seems to act like a Ca channel blocker, why it is not tried FIRST Over a drug is beyond my understanding. You need Mg to help you hold K, otherwise with a dramatic shift in intracellular levels you will have a tough time holding on to it.

3.  Taking potassium is tricky because of its impact on the heart, but not as tricky as represented by most medical professionals. The paranoia about K is costing us dearly.  In a study of 4000 patients being treated for hypertension with K+, complications were seen in less that 150 and the DEATH rate was .14%.  This is in Compromised patients.  It is more than reasonable to believe that people with relatively normal kidneys will be more than ok with some K suppmentation.  table salt is high in Sodium.  WE are NOT getting enough potassium in our diets... period.  And mark my words as you read them on this web site: Potassium  will be shown (if it hasn't already) with Ca and Mg to be absolutely essential for maintaining bone (preventing osteoperosis). and by the way, a recent alert to pharmacists just came out that some drugs to treat Osteo will cause bone to deposit Ca crystals in the wrong orientation, and this harmful structural situation IS IRREVERSABLE.  

4. resolution will take time because once your acid base and electrolyte balance in the cells shift and you get a build up of ions like Ca in the cell, it can take time for the proper equilibrium to be re-established.

So.. every day I have fewer and fewer palps because this weekend I finally got the ER doc to give me K and Mg. It's like my whole body relaxes about 40 min after I take them.  and I take it every day. The beauty of this plan is that my sense of wellbeing has also made a dramatic improvement, even though I am having symptoms (less frequent and reduced intensity with each day).  I will not tell you how much to take, because you need to work it out with your doctor and they need to make sure that nothing else is going on. A hint is it will probably will take about half of what they would normally perscribe in the ER for an oral does of K or Mg.   It will not be easy, you will have to insist, because they will not believe you.  Just search medline like I did or the internet, and you will quickly find the same articles I did. bring the abstracts to you doctor.  Like the one called Magnesium in Cardiology. I spread the pills out over the day because these pills can be hard on your stomach/cause diarhea.   I also take Calcium in between, the Mg/K dose.  Now I eat an excellent diet of raw veggies, fruit and small amounts of high quality protein (fish, grass fed beef).   Take omega fatty acids, Vit E, bioflavinoids/anti oxidants, and 2-3 x 1000 mgs of Vitamin C.  Drink lots of water, but put a pinch of sea salt in it.. it is better absorbed with a little salt according sports physiologists.  You must, must must have food intake that nurtures your cells, and that is high in the essential elements K and Mg.   So that means dump the processed carbs and fats.   They will compete with "good fats" that are so essential to heart health. Good fats are Olive oil, extra virgin coconut (best to cook with this oil), and butter (organic... in moderate amounts and the omega fatty acids.  Butter in moderation is NOT bad for you and is FAR better than margarine... the pesticides and other hormones in it from non-organic sources will collect in your fat cells and give you a different set of problems.    

If you can not take K, there is a study that showed that Mg alone can make a difference... just will take more time is my guess.   Go to store, get Mg/Ca combo pills and take as directed.  And eat a ton of FRESH food high in potassium.  Raisins helped me.   I think K has been important for my recovery.  I'll keep you posted.

cmiller

[who_dis]

It's not normal to have a BP spike up to 250/150, under any circumstance.

[Flycaster305]

I have had Ankylosing Spondelitis which causes pain in the back, neck, and chest.  Years ago I went to an emergency room and was given very good advice: if the chest pain increases when you touch the spot, it probably is not the heart.

[who_dis]

Hopefully you are on antihypertensives.  That's what you are in the most danger from--high blood pressure.  And as the CCMD said, get worked up for the cause.

[spartan94]

I wasn't really looking for reassurance at this point.  I was looking for anything else that the Doc felt could cause this.  I'm open to ideas.

This sucks.  It's DEFINITELY not just mental.  I've got muscles spasming at times with nerve pain and palps.  It seems to cycle every few weeks and get worse and better.  I was hoping the Doc had maybe seen something like this before and had other thoughts on what it could be.

My BP was only up accutely, I take Altace and it generally runs 120/80.

Oh well.

[Cleveland Clinic]

spartan,

Im not really sure how I could reassure you much further over the internet.

I would look into secondary causes of hypertension in you sine your presentation is so marked at a young age. If this were negative, you probably have early onset hypertension and the need for aggressive medical management.

Good luck

[woodruff]

It probably wouldn't hurt to have another consult, but be aware of the possibility (nay, probability) that nothing will turn up.

In the meantime, I'd suggest reading a lot--I mean a LOT--at this site.  Type PVCs into the search box, and read how many of this experience these things, what we learn, and how we cope.

If your next consult and eval shows that you're healthy, and the possibility is raised that anxiety is a factor, it could help a great deal to have a session or two with a good shrink (they're medically trained) to discuss your emotional reactions to your symptoms, and how to deal with them.  If go back through messages concerning PVCs, you'll see that some people have gotten their lives back via this route.

[tickertock]

Hope you have Happy Birthday despite feeling unwell. I know the feeling. I've had/have those same symptoms, always had sinus tachy and PVCs, but the chest pain, very slight jaw and shoulder pain , even numbness and tingling in my hand and arms has been around since I was about 33/34, I'll be 42 in less than 2 months. Like you I never really made it interfere that much with my other enjoyments in life but it was always in the back of my mind what if. I had echos, EKGs too many to mention,holter monitor, and regular stress test, all essentially normal.I started getting all this testing back when I was 22 for PVCs and tachy and had several repeats since then. PVCs , PACs and even some sinus tach is normal and the vast majority if not everyone have them at sometime or the other whether they are aware of them or not.

I was finally diagnosed in 2000 with a connective tissue disease( ankylosing spondylitis) now classified as a connective autoimmune tissue disease which simply means its a little worse than once thought though rarely life threatening.

At least this finally explained the chest, shoulder, neck , jaw pain and numbness and tingling in my arms and fingers, in my opinion it is probably responsible for some of my other "cardiac symptoms" also. Just sharing my experience this might not apply to your symptoms at all, but it might be worth getting a muscloskeletal check up also, as nerves and compression in the neck can cause all sorts of symptoms in the jaw , shoulders, arms, and neck. Good luck and Have a great B/Day.

[spartan94]

Ultimately it boils down to this (sorry, I'm just fed up and maybe my b-day put me over the edge)

Most days I spent a large part of it with some sort of jaw, shoulder, or upper arm pains, mainly on the left but both.

I get PVC's and sometimes chest discomfort.  I mean, I really am uncomfortable.  After a bad bout of PVC's I feel physically tired.

I've been tested a lot I know, but I still feel bad and many of my symptoms, chest pain, jaw, shoulder, arm, and neck pain, PVC's really point to my heart.  I have high cholesterol and elevated BP (take meds for both).  

I just really don't know what to do.  12 months ago I felt GREAT life was good.  Life is still good, outside of this ****.  My PC doc says I'm a mystery and I figure he thinks it is just stress. BUT my PVC's are documented so that isn't NORMAL.  But it's not the PVC's alone, it's the chest pain, jaw pain etc.

If it is not cardiac, I'm not sure where to look and neither is my PC.  

I've spent a lot of money, and I don't care if I spend more.  I simply want to feel normal again.

Thanks.

[spartan94]

A few other quick notes.  

My only other symptom is that if under heavy acute stress at work I'll get a tingling from my chest up through my jaw.  BUT it does not last long - 10 seconds maybe?  Again, only under acute stress.  I could go run sprints in the street and not get that.

So, I understand pointing to stress, other than I took a 10 day vacation and had the same symptoms, and I've reduced a lot of other stress in my life because of this.

I still live my life, exercise, sex, playing with my kids etc.  However those activities are a lot less enjoyable because of this. I'm worried the entire time something is going to happen.  

I know my tests points towards something else, I accept that.  I also feel because of my age it's not taken as seriously.

My ONLY real stress in life right now are these pains, pvc's and sometimes random chest pains. I've had a few days they are not there, and I feel GREAT, I'm completely myself if only for a few hours.

[qi1213]

Thank you for your kind wishes and your suggestions. I am coming down off of a migraine that attacked yesterday afternoon and if finally subsiding now. I feel I have so many things going wrong that I don't know where to turn. I have seen two neurologists in the past: the first was over ten years ago and a female (which I thought was going to be great) and was the head of neurology at a local university. She diagnosed my headaches as being migraines. I had a battery of tests performed which found a pineal cyst. She said it was normal and to let her worry about it. Also, because of her status, my appointments with her could only be scheduled three months apart, leading to years of frustration and finally I quit going. My latest neurological appointment was in April of this year(not with the same physician) and was not for migraine but for numbness and tingling. His initial diagnosis was that I had a B12 deficiency and fibromyalgia and that none of this was neurological in nature. He ordered a CT scan with and without contrast and an EEG to rule out mini seizures. The CT saw the same pineal cyst (which had not grown) and my EEG was normal; no seizures. However, he decided in his infinite wisdom to prescribe Topomax for the seizures the EEG ruled out. I have not gone back.
I have never tried Rolfing, however, I did have my first deep tissue massage earlier this year. It hurt so bad. I felt so sick afterwards and probably shouldn't have driven home. After I got home, I vomited and my body hurt for weeks after. Needless to say I haven't done that again. I also went to my local health food store and I talked to a knowledgeable sales person there. She told me that I probably had a magnesium deficiency. She sold me some effervescent magnesium (I don't remember the brand) as well as inositol. I starting experiencing the tingling and numbness after taking this for a while so I stopped. But the tingling and numbness continued. Hence the visit to the neurologist. Like I said, I have seen so many doctors and, for a while, just gave up with the medical profession altogether. I feel like they just don't care. I know within minutes whether I'll get the care I need or just a prescription. You have approximately 30 seconds in your initial address to capture their attention and then you get the all-knowing glazed-over look that says, "this lady is depressed and needs to be on xxxx SSRI". That may be the case now, but it wasn't when I first started my quest for good health over twelve years ago. Two doctors (a neurologist and a rheumatologist) both told me to pick out what was bothering me the most and they would prescribe medication for that. I need a qualified, caring physician to look at my ENTIRE makeup and make a diagnosis from that instead of picking out parts. I wish I had kept all of those prescriptions that I have been giving over the years because I would probably be on fifty different medications right now.
I have stranded from this thread and for that I apologize. I do have the same thudding, rattling, shaking sensation in my chest on occasion mentioned in the postings above and I do experience chest pain, shortness of breath and needed some education regarding this frightening condition and what the possible cause could be. I think educating yourself is a very powerful tool and look forward to learning even more from my peers.

[qi1213]

I appreciate this post. I, too, have had years of unexplainable symptoms with no assistance from the medical profession. My first encounter with a cardiologist at age 31 produced this comment from him, "31 year old girls don't have heart problems" prior to a scheduled stress test that he cancelled. I have been told I have GERD, an inflammed chest wall, chiropractic problems to explain away my symptoms. Even my current primary got fed up with me and said the only thing wrong with me was that I am healthy (with a sneer). For a period of time in between, I just gave up. Two years ago, I was hospitalized with "complicated migraine" for what I thought was a stroke. For three and a half years I took Zoloft because every doctor I saw told me I was depressed. Boy did that do a number on me....It's eight years later and after too many to count doctor/specialist visits, I am seeing a cardiologist that actually seems to listen. Both of my stress tests (regular & nuclear) came back abnormal. I have had an echo, a 24 hour holter and am on my last week with a 30 day holter. Last night I think I finally caught on the monitor what everyone here is calling a PVC or PAC. I have these weird periods where I feel dizzy and that I'm going to black out. The top of my head feels tingly and sometimes one side of my body will go weak and numb. I get waves of nausea with periodic episodes of hot flashes and chills. After all that, I have developed an anxiety disorder and am almost agoraphobic for fear that I'll experience one of these attacks in public. I go back to my cardiologist on the 20th with the results of all this testing. My life for the past decade has been in a holding pattern trying to find out what is wrong with me.  What upsets me most is that the medical community that I have experienced readily dismissed me so many times and that I was too weak to challenge them. It's too easy to write a prescription than to find out the underlying cause. I just hope I'm not too late.

[cmiller]

One more thing.  God bless qi1213 and we hope you will be all right. Let us know.

Anyone who keeps getting : no problem with PAC, PVCs needs to read her post.   This CAN be a sign that something else is going on.  We've got to quick sweeping this stuff under the rug just because docs can't figure out what something is, doesn't mean it is OK.  I want to see that study that looks at long term effects of PACs and says they are "no problem".  What did they look at specifically?  

CMiller

[cmiller]

You need to see a neurologist.   Those symptoms sound like possible TIAs to me particularly with one side of your body being involved. Make them prove to you that these are not TIAs (will be hard to do) due to vasospasm. MDs talk about two types of stroke- blockage or bleed.  I think there is undoubtedly a third type that occurs when tiny blood vessels spasm so that blood can not temporarily get to parts of the brain.  These would be a bear to diagnose. The only way I figured this out is that I worked for a company that had a brain imaging agent for stroke and spent gads of time talking to neurologists, neurosurgeons and vascular surgeons about stroke plus I've observed my symptoms and how Mg relaxes everything, including blood vessels to my brain.  when I get to the right levels, I can feel the vessels at the back of my neck release and I get these pulses of blood into the brian. scared me the first time it happened, and then with the rest of my body just relaxing to a state of bliss..and my heart goes wisper quiet. oh yes, bingo!!   A brief and important high from more oxygen in the right place.    Cardiac arrythmias can cause TIAs... (the cardiologists never mention this, do they?)   These are transient ischemic attacks-  can be hard to diagnose as they are transient and may or may not leave physical evidence (like something on CT or MRI). that just means that you may not be getting enough blood in parts of your brain.  May not be bad per se, AND you want this investigated.  You need head CT or MRI.   Most of us probably have them (TIAs) on occassion.  Probably some migranes cause these.  Again, these are symptoms that may be helped considerably with potassium and Mg. Low Mg can cause TIAs.  Stress makes you loose Magnesium.  a vicious cyle.   Find a doctor who can guide you on how to take Mg and K safely. search this site for every post I have made and you will find lots of info.   Insist that you get Red Blood Cell Magnesium and K done to look at those levels.   Find someone who knows Neurolinguistic programming (NLP) to help you get over the fear of these attacks.  (it will be fast and easy if they are really good).  In all cases, avoid MSG, food additives, aspartame.  make your diet pristine- fresh veggies and fruits to get that mineral balance you desparately need.  You may also have some nerve compression in your cervical (neck) vertebre that is squooshing nerves to your body and blood vessels going to your brain.  Are you active?  Yoga may help or find a Rolfer.  Rolfing hurts and by god it is the best thing I ever did for my body.  Like permanent massage.

Good luck.

[cmiller]

Hi Angie,

This web is a MUST read for anyone having Atrial Fibs.   Talks mostly about "lone" Atrial Fibs...which is what I have, AND anyone with Atrial Fibs should read....    


http://magnesiumresearchlab.com/Mg-and-Potassium-in-Lone-Atrial-Fibrillation-9-11-03.htm.  I realize that from a lay person's review it might mean overwhelm because it is very technical.  

some show stoppers:

1. How MSG (monosodium glutamate) causes atrial Fibs by impacting taurine... that makes eating out a risk.  I ate out tonite BEFORE reading this and asked if anything had MSG in it.  they swore that the rolls I had didn't... but I think they did and I just hope I don't have any problems tonite!!

2. MSG also can trigger PACs (which I have).

Why are they allowed to use this STUFF???  why aren't our doctors warning us about this!!???   I am petrified now that I might have eaten the stuff.  I'm going to buy some taurine.  I ate a swab of peanut butter (high in Mg and protein)  Foods high in taurine... fresh fish and meat... I'm going to cook some NOW.  I do not want an episode.

Other- vitamin D increases Mg absorption

here's stuff on MSG:  
http://www.msgtruth.org/remedies.htm
This is CRAZY!!


By the way, watch the amount of Calcium you are taking... don't want to have too much you won't get the benefit from Mg.

also, Zinc may be important, but it can strip copper.. another element important in cardiac health.     supplementation is VERY tricky.  the best way to get this is in food...as much as possible.

CMiller

[cmiller]

forgot to say... chances are good your doctor will tell you that you have "stress" or anxiety disorder.. because the symptoms are similar.  The question is, however, if they have never tested your RBC magnesium and given that Mg deficiency is so hard to Dx, how do they know for sure you DON'T have it?  Well, so interesting the role that Mg plays as a Ca channel blocker, reduce catacholamine impact, reduction in arrhymias and studies that have shown that it is as effective as some antianxiety meds. Or that stress strips Mg from your body.   All things that look like Mg supplmentation is worth investigating FIRST before meds, huh?   how exactly are those antianxiety meds or beta blockers going to help you with a Mg imbalance that could have you end up with a stroke or seizure?  Yes, they are right, those palps may have no long term effect on your HEART.   I put my hand on my heart and thanked and blessed it for the early warning signs.  It knows what it is saying and it's time for me to trust it.  Something needs to be addressed.  I guess each of you will need to decide if you think your heart is telling you the same.

[cmiller]

Ok.. the continued saga...to the good news

during our last update I talked about feeling great since Mg, then followed by two nights from hell (after working out and eating carbs). Underneith it all I can tell the Mg is helping- I am calm and happier... So I dutifully took my Mg/K as usual the next day and added a couple things to the protocol-

Cooked up our bone broth/stew as described elsewhere on this forum and drank that all day along with eating tons of fresh fruits and veggies. to get those darned trace minerals.

Mg can be absorbed through the skin, so I poured a big bath of epson salts, added a cup of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).   (found this recipe on a web link on this forum). for good measure I added some Potassium bicarbonate (in non aluminum baking powder) so I could get some potassium, too.  

went to sleep early, woke up in the middle of the night with the weirdest sensation in my neck,, almost this spasmotic opening of the blood vessels... could feel more blood moving to my brain... in waves... I was a little disconcerted, to say the least because it felt so strange and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, until I noticed my heart was silent and my whole body was relaxing. my breath was deep and easy... oh fabulous.  It felt so good I couldn't sleep because I was in such a state of enjoyment about how good I feel in every cell (except my stomach, which probably didn't like the magnesium and K supplments).  I could feel the blood moving into different parts of my body... warm and tingly.   Anyway, I can begin to tell you how good it felt or how good I feel now.  Holy smokes.  Mg is absolutely key.  my heart is wisper quiet.... like the old days. not even there.  I was yawning and realized I hadn't yawned in DAYS if not weeks... as the tension released from my body.  

I'm realizing that this takes time..maybe months. and that I may be susceptible to easy loss for quite some time so have to keep it up and watch carefully what i eat.   And oh my gosh this is worth everything I have done so far.  It is such a travesty that Mg is not given more to people with Palps.  do the research on the net and you'll be a believer, too.  I am so relaxed today... oh fabulous.   I would so want this for every person on this forum.  Some people may be content to live with palps for years, and I may have to... but I don't think so.  If I can get to hold Mg, I will stay 'silent".

Oh yes, for all those of you that think palps mean nothing, make sure you see if you have any other Mg deficiency symptoms.  because if you do, the long term can be ugly, including TIA (mini strokes).  and your doctors will not catch it because they will only test your plasma Mg levels, and not RBC levels, which are critical.

http://mdheal.org/magnesiu1.htm



  cmiller