RUN'S OF PVC'S

[carie]

I am a 40 year old female, very healthy other than heart palpitations.  I suffer PVC's and runs of PVC's.  I have been for two EP studies and the doctors cannot find anything wrong with my heart.  I am on Celexa 10mg because I have always been worried about my palpitations and they were really controlling my life.  I just would like some reassurance from you on the following:

1.  Usually at night when I am laying down I will get what feels like a run of hard fast beats (5 to 8 in a row).  My hands get tingley and I feel like a I am going to go into major panic.  It goes hard and fast and then does a pause and a big thump and then back to normal.  Do you think that is a bad thing?  Do a lot of other people get things like that.  My doctor said that I am just very aware of my heart beat and not to worry because I have a normal heart (very hard to do).

2.  I can sometimes go for several days without any skipping or runs in my heart and then it will happen everyday for a week.  Is that normal?

3.  Anytime I feel anxious for any reason I can feel my heart go irregular (just very temporarily) and I can take a deep breath and it will go back to normal.  Is that anything to worry about?

4.  Ten years ago I had a holter monitor on and it caught a very short run of nonsustained v-tach.  I have really let this haunt me for the last 10 years and I think that is why I am so scared about everything I feel my heart do.  I went for the EP studies because I was so horrified about these runs of beats but they could not find anything to ablate.  Anxiety related?

Thanks.

[kris s]

Hi all,
This is a first forum ever I joined to date. There was a time when I thought this sort of activity was for people with too much time on their hands and no real problems. I am 38 years old male, work as an IT professional and have a family of five, and I was always too busy to pay to much attention to mysellf. This is until I noticed that I am totally out of shape, overweight and getting old really quickly. So about 2 years ago I decided to change that. It took lots of hard work, willpower and one seemingly good plan. I quit smoking, begun a "perfect diet" and started a rigorous exercise plan. Running, biking, weightroom, lots of water, no fat or sugar, plenty of protein and carbs- you get the picture.
I have lost over 50 lbs, gained muscle mass, felt young, strong and really healthy. My bloodwork and other tests were perfect, I hade a resting hearbeat of an athlete and was really proud of it all.
And then my heart palpitations started. I freaked out. I couldn't sleep, couldn't work, I got totally impossible to be with, my life became a nightmare. Here I was - in the best shape of my life and THIS is happening to me - WHY?!
I got my ecg, holter, heart ultrasound etc. I had multiples runs of pvcs daily, but my heart was fine. The doctors blaimed it on cigarettes, coffee, tea, alcohol and stress. The thing is, I haven't had any for two years now...I was living a really healthy lifestyle! You can imagine my disappointment.
Than I talked to a friend who was studying sports medicine in Europe an she said that those pvcs are often a first thing athletes experience after entering a strict diet/training regimen (like something they do before an important competition apparently) This will cause some inbalances in electrolytes and the heart goes out-of-sync.
She told me to relax, have some chocolate and generally remove the stick from my a**. Which I did. I stopped all my "healthy" activities except for biking, slept 8-9 hours a day and head lots of chocolate that I LOVE.
And then It all went away. My anxiety, pvcs, breathing problems. ALL OF IT. I am again (slightly)overwight and a really happy person. I have a sporadical thump once in a while, but it is NOTHING compared to sleepless nights and useless days when I had 30-50 pvcs ever minute(!)
I cannot figure this one out..
Sorry for this one lenghty post, shows I have no eperience :)
Kris

[kris s]

Hi all,
This is a first forum ever I joined to date. There was a time when I thought this sort of activity was for people with too much time on their hands and no real problems. I am 38 years old male, work as an IT professional and have a family of five, and I was always too busy to pay to much attention to mysellf. This is until I noticed that I am totally out of shape, overweight and getting old really quickly. So about 2 years ago I decided to change that. It took lots of hard work, willpower and one seemingly good plan. I quit smoking, begun a "perfect diet" and started a rigorous exercise plan. Running, biking, weightroom, lots of water, no fat or sugar, plenty of protein and carbs- you get the picture.
I have lost over 50 lbs, gained muscle mass, felt young, strong and really healthy. My bloodwork and other tests were perfect, I hade a resting hearbeat of an athlete and was really proud of it all.
And then my heart palpitations started. I freaked out. I couldn't sleep, couldn't work, I got totally impossible to be with, my life became a nightmare. Here I was - in the best shape of my life and THIS is happening to me - WHY?!
I got my ecg, holter, heart ultrasound etc. I had multiples runs of pvcs daily, but my heart was fine. The doctors blaimed it on cigarettes, coffee, tea, alcohol and stress. The thing is, I haven't had any for two years now...I was living a really healthy lifestyle! You can imagine my disappointment.
Than I talked to a friend who was studying sports medicine in Europe an she said that those pvcs are often a first thing athletes experience after entering a strict diet/training regimen (like something they do before an important competition apparently) This will cause some inbalances in electrolytes and the heart goes out-of-sync.
She told me to relax, have some chocolate and generally remove the stick from my a**. Which I did. I stopeed all my "healthy" activities except for biking, slept 8-9 hours a day and head lots of chocolate that I LOVE.
And then It all went away. My anxiety, pvcs, breathing problems. ALL OF IT. I am again (slightly)overwight and a really happy person. I have a sporadical thump once in a while, but it is NOTHING compared to sleepless nights and useless days when I had 30-50 pvcs ever minute(!)
I cannot figure this one out..
Sorry for this one lenghty post, shows I have no eperience :)
Kris

[Mister]

Lori.

Sorry, I didn

[Mister]

Hi Lori.

Yeah, the anxiety thing.......hmm.

I have been having a few pains here and there, you know, as can be caused by anxiety.

I had a little

[LORIANDTOM]

Hello again!  You are absolutely right- one has to get their mind on something else, but just thinking that way makes you think about it ,eh?

I have noticed that I breathe out of my chest too much and try to take breaths from the diaphram but it feels contrived so, as you say, I do my best to forget about it and move on.

If it is anxiety what remedy is there besides drugs?  Got any ideas on that?

Lori

[Mister]

Hi there, Lori.

It could well be anxiety, you know.

I thought that it was because I was breathing through my mouth (I always have) and went to a Buteyko practitioner but although I can breathe through my nose, it is much easier to breathe through my mouth. And I have been doing it for years and it's been fine. It all started with a panic attack caused by stress. At that point I knew I was hyperventilating because I would yawn or sigh to get a big breath. All stress. So that's an indicator.

I had chest pains the other day and frrrreaked out, big time. Turns out it was nothing. Could be wind, etc. But I still worry.

I'm trying to forget about it. That's the key.

What do you think?

I guess we have to do what we can to get our minds on something else.

It's all swings and roundabouts.

Cheers.

[LORIANDTOM]

Hi. I too, am having problems with shortness of breath or having to take a deep breath to get some good air!  I cannot tell you if it is anxiety, the pvc's or something else, but I do agree with you the more fixuated you are on it- the worse it is.  However, it isn't exactly an easy thing to just forget about.  The breathing part of this is just annoying as my pvc's are and one of my chief complaints.  

I try to relax, get my mind of it, excercise etc.. and do ok for a bit but it still is a big problem.

At least I am not the only one! That's comforting, but I would love a definitive answer to this!

Lori

[jarbo]

Hi all - I've done well with homeopathy for my palpitations, Check out my comments in the question just above this one -- John

[Mister]

Hi there. You sure aren't alone. And you sure aren't mad. Your doctor isn't mad either, he just doesn't understand. How can he?

You must always remember how powerful the mind is. If you feel depressed, your body gives you signals, such as PVCs etc. Nothing to worry about. But you do.

It all takes time. And learning.

Have you read Dr Claire Weekes' books? It helps understand.

Change your thinking and smile more, if you can.

It's interesting, if you take your MIND off your problems, your problems go away.

[laneyr]

I have been having these damn things for years now and I always take a deep breat after experiencing one (or a few.) It drives me nuts but it is just an automatic thing now.  My palpitations stopped for a year and have just started up again in the last 2 months and are even worse.  I find them worse at night and I lay there trying to control my breathing and worrying about it.  
I did visit the doctor when they first started and he tried to convince me it was all in my mind - well either I am mad or he is.
I find laying on my left side helps at night and watching a bit of tv (distraction).
I am glad im not the only one suffering this and im not going mad.

laney

[Mister]

Thanks for the swift reply; it is so good to have somebody to communicate with who knows what it's like. You just responded once and yet you have brightened things up as it's a step nearer to getting it sorted in my head that it really is not anything to worry about. It's catch 22 as worrying is what probably causes the stress and therefore the breathing becoming erratic and then the PVCs appear. And then you're in a vicious circle.

I shall begin some exercise!

With regards to the breathing (always sighing and yawning) I have begun my new job in sales and this has, so far today, taken my mind off this habit. So I know the more I concentrate on my body, the more I stress and the more I want to take a deep breath.

So it's a case of diverting my energies towards something more useful.

Also, little things have made me feel better about PVCs. For example, there is a programme called 'Heartbeat' in the UK, about a police station set in the Yorkshire Moors in the 60s. Nothing to do with the heart, except for (and this is the point) the theme song, entitled 'Heatbeat'. I forget who sang it. But it goes.....ahem.......'Heatbeat, why do you miss when my baby kisses me........?' So you see, it is common, part of life and, in this case, associated with love and happiness. There was also an advert in a magazine which, advertising women's underwear (Hey, I just happened across it) and the punch line was, 'Cause sweats and palpitations'. There you go, all part of life and all in the mind. It's just a nervous reaction and is common, hey, it's used in advertising so every human is open to it.

We've just got to keep talking to as many people as we can to get our heads around it. I was thinking (Don't think too much!) that soldiers must be stressed and pumped full of adrenaline all the time. If they started noticing their heartbeat they'd probably freak, for no reason!

I guess we have to start thinking differently, know what we are like and how we react so that we can adapt and learn to change. It's pointless saying 'Come on, sort it out!' as it takes a long time and understanding but it's a start.

I also have kicked the drink and not had one since August! I go out and dance all the time. I don't need drink as I'm that outgoing kind of person (which is why I never thought this would happen to me) and do quite okay with the women so I can construct better sentences! Most of my mates have a go for me not drinking but later on in the evening they turn around and say that they admire me for it, saying they couldn't do it. I think a lot of them are envious.

Just do what makes you happy.

Anyway, I'm interested in anybody who has anything to say, particularly with regards to this habit of wanting to take a deep breath all of the time as I find this the most annoying thing.

Thanks once again, Arthur.

I'll be checking this site all the time so let's share info, people!

[arthur]

You are going through something I think most of us have also gone through...complete anxiety and fear due to these "skips", however frequently they occur.  In my own case, being an athlete, I was devastated and so anxious that I was afraid to get out of bed.  The tension that built up as a result, would often have me stretching and yawning, and precipitating dreadfull feelings of tachycardia (even if it wasn't really happening) and more skips.
This was definitely all in my head.

I had a lone atrial fib condition, largely brought on by adrenaline pulses during exercise...what a thing for an athlete to get!  So I was depressed, big time.

By gradually learning more about my condition and going through a variety of physical exams for every disorder that could explain my symptoms, I became more relaxed and more confident.  I resumed exercising and even though I precipitated further AF episodes, I knew WHY they were occurring and I was able to map out a plan of action (which led to a rf ablation of a PV focus which was responsible for the whole thing).  It's been a year and a half since the ablation procedure, and I still get minor bouts of "skips" which appear to be less and less troublesome...since I now make a real effort to ignore them, which actually works to keep my spirits up.

So, it's a long road...shortened if you get the information you need to understand what's causing your symptoms.  Believe me, if they are PACs or PVCs, they are indeed benign.  I play competitive soccer and at age 54 I can still score against 20 year olds.  I run my head off in practice and in games, with the result that I have recaptured the life that these buggers attempted to take away from me.

Good luck with your data gathering and rebuilding your confidence!

[Mister]

I am a 24 year old male, sat at my desk in London, always trying to take a deep breath and trying to make sense of what I am experiencing. I began having panic attacks over six months ago when I returned from travelling Oz  and became worried about the physical symptoms they produced. PVCs were the main concern. My breathing would be erratic and I would always want to yawn or sigh to get a deep breath. I visited the ER room over ten times, had numerous tests, visited a shrink once and was told not to worry. I couldn't. I cried in front of my doctor and he referred me to a mental health out-patient centre. Only through reading books and talking to people I began to realise that it is all in my mind and that I can, somehow, control it. My mental health appointment is next year and I don't think I need it now as time has passed and I have a grip on my thoughts now. My panic attacks have subsided but a few moments ago I had a run of PVCs. A few months ago I would have freaked out and gone to hospital. This time I didn't. I do feel that my body is so sensitised that I get an adrenaline rush if the phone rings or I imagine a scenario I am in which would cause this. Then I would get a 'missed' or 'skipped' beat. I am so sure that they are caused by the fact that my breathing is erratic and the fact that I am, in many ways, hyperventilating by yawning or sighing all of the time. It is a habit. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW is, does anybody else feel this? I have always been a mouth-breather and my mouth is designed to stay open! My doc says this is not a problem. I get depressed about this and so this can also cause PVCs. I have a great circle of friends and am one crazy fun loving animal. But I can get stressed. If I know other people experience this maybe I can get my head around it and get on, banishing this habit. I think the comfort in knowing that I am not alone will help me. When I spoke to a friend he said he had PVCs and I was like 'Oh, great!'. I could have cried with relief. I still worry. After all, it is all in the mind and not much the medical world knows much about. They just want to be sure you won't keel over. They deal witht he physical side of things. One doctor prescribed Prozac which I binned. I am pleased that I have allowed time and knowledge to help me. I have helped myself. I am still in the recovery phase and still need help with this. My main worry now is the fact that I have not exercised for months and I fear this. I want to get into the gym but need to sort this out. Any ideas? Talk to me, please and sort out my head! Thank you so much for reading this. I reckon if we all had a night out together and talked about our concerns, most of us would wake the next day feeling more like we used to.

[scoopcoop]

wilson-wilson,your note about pheochromocytoma,just p.a.c.'s and p.v.c.'s do not make a diagnosis of this rare disease,blood pressure is elevated ,usually at extreme levels-usually causing severe headaches-often the presenting complaint,elevated blood sugar-such as with diabetes is also seen.yes,they can have arrythmias,they are often tachycardic.these are due to increases in catecholemine levels-secreted by a tumour.

[arthur]

I'm not sure what the primal scream will do...however, I do know that if you irritate those little PV foci their frequency increases (ie, the rate at which they fire).  When that happens, the amplitude of the signal decreases.  So, they end up with signalling that falls short of affecting the heart directly.. sort of "out of sync".  Exercise appears to do this.  Maybe your primal scream therapy is enough to shake up those buggers for a while.

[arthur]

Yes...I have come across the complications slide from a talk about ablations.  That's about correct...the complication rate is about 4% overall which includes things like stenosis of the PVs and stroke and a few other things.  That's why cardio/EPs are reluctant (in general) to treat PCA/PVC conditions in otherwise healthy hearts, unless there is a more serious condition that PACs/PVCs herald (like AF, SVT, etc).  

I continue to be surprised that the Cleveland Clinic appears more than willing to ablate all and any foci that may be bothersome (based on comments found in this forum).  Perhaps with all the practice they have, the complication rate's a bit lower here.

Re. frequency of PAC/PVC occurrence...people appear to have these occur at varying rates throughout their lifetimes.  Anywhere from a couple a day to thousands per day...even at the rate of thousands per day, many EPs feel they are still benign (assuming a healthy cardiovascular system).  However, it's possible that one could convice an EP to consider ablation when the number is up in the thousands/day...since it's likely that at that frequency there are times when the arrhythmia is more complicated than simple skips.  Like the clinic EP here is often quoted as saying, "If they bother you, then call the number below."

[wilson-wilson]

"You know Arthur, sometimes when these things overwhelm me [actually make me angry], I'll go to my bedroom and do a "primal scream" into a pillow a couple of times [till I'm damn near dizzy]....and I am not bothered with them for a couple of days?? What do youz 2 make of this????"

wilson-wilson
----------

Why do ya think this action would "stop them" for a day or so?

[wilson-wilson]

http://www.mayo.edu/cme-rst/april2001/03-Packer/sld013.htm

[Swoop]

I'm somewhat relieved that I'm not the only one experiencing these weird "thumps" in my chest and neck.  I've always had it.  Since as far back as I can remember.  But, this whole month, I've had a constant stream of these PVC's.  I feel them all the time.  I have a hard time gettting to sleep.  I started telling myself, "well, you did it...you don't take care of yourself, you're overweight and now you're blood pressure is so high your heart is about to explode!"  Reading through your comments has calmed my fears but I do still need to have a complete heart exam and cholesterol check.  I'm going to stay away from caffiene and alchohol.  Thanks for the tips!  At least I now know my heart isn't about to burst through my chest.  Does anyone else have them CONSTANTLY?

[wilson-wilson]

Thanks Hank. It's kinda comforting to know others notice these things too.
[i.e. being in the same boat....just hope it's not the Titanic!]

Or as I heard someone once say:

"No matter how one arranges the deck chairs, we are ALL still on the Titanic!" [how depressing is that?]

----------------

Arthur;  thank you, but I'd rather feel "special" in other ways! <G>

Sidenote:

You know Arthur and Hank, sometimes when these things overwhelm me [actually make me angry], I'll go to my bedroom and do a "primal scream" into a pillow a couple of times [till I'm damn near dizzy]....and I am not bothered with them for a couple of days??  What do youz 2 make of this????

wilson-wilson

[arthur]

I believe that any irritation presented to the throat or cetnral chest area (in the form of sinus infections, bronchial infections, colds and flu) can cause an increase activity in the autonomic nervous system and lead to increased PV foci activity.  The result is an increase in PAC/PVC production.  It's a dismal scenario wherein anything at all that can upset the nervous system running up/down behind the heart can precipitate skips in people who have these foci.  It's the sort of thing that sets us apart from most other people and should make us feel sort of special.

[wilson-wilson]

In some ways the things you've descibed that bring on your PVCs/PACs [and sometimes mine as well], is consistant with a disease called, Pheochromocytoma:

"tumor of the adrenal gland that causes excess release of the two hormones epinephrine and norepinephrine, which regulate heart rate and blood pressure"

This, [according to all the medical literature I've read] seems to be a *RARE* disease.

http://www.medhelp.org/search?query=pheochromocytoma

-or-

http://www.pheochromocytoma.org/

*Side note:

I have been on Doxycycline for a couple of days now [for a sinus infection] and it seems to be "surpressing" my PVC/PACs?  My Cardio told me when I had an echogram/doppler in Sept. that an infection could precipitate PVC/PACs. [hell Arthur, I've had this sinus infection for 2 years (about when PVCs started) and have been "a-symptomatic"..the only reason I found out about it, I had this terrible odor coming from the left nostril, and when I had an MRI on it the ENT Dr. said my left maxillary was infected! He wanted me to have "endoscopy" but I was afraid to because of the PVCs/PACs, so he is trying the Doxycycline to see if it will kill the little germ-ies.  He wanted to put me on Levaquin but I'd heard to many horror stories so I balked at the Levaquin.

So I guess my question would be:

*COULD* an infection (systemic or otherwise) cause PVCs/PACs or the PV foci to "foc up?" {sorry, couldn't resist..my Adult ADD}

wilson-wilson

[wilson-wilson]

What you stated does makes sense.  What I got out of it is:

If one has 2 EMF's (Electro Motive Force..."Electro-motive-force is the energy being supplied to a charge") close enough together, one of those EMF's could be affected by the other; i.e., if one puts an AM radio to close to a computer monitor the AM radio will suffer distortion, phasing, static etc. [or in essence "go crazy."

So, when I first started getting these PVC/PAC) things...I "conscientiously" tried to regulate my "breathing" to thwart them, [when I should'a just tried to relax and let my auto system do it] and all I might have been doing was, setting off the "pulmonary system's" electrical charge because it was reading an abnormal input and thus trying to get the lungs and breathing back to -normal- regulation with additional impulses that could, in fact, send an electrical message [or interfer with my heart's normal electrical charges] to my heart to add or skip a beat to compensate for what was going on with what the pulmonary system may have been seeing as a "def con level 5" [urgent, urgent; breathing not right; must try to stablize breathing *smile].

[does this make sense?]

[wilson-wilson]

I have read just about all the Heart Forum's topics on arrhythmia's, Ectopic beats, PVC's, PAC's etc......ad nauseum.  But the one thing I haven't seen [my wife asked me to ask this, Grin] is, *why*; why do these things start in the first place?  I know the drill about electrical pathways etc....  BUT if ones heart is otherwise in good shape {according to ones personal Cardiologist} why do PVC's, PAC's etc. start?

I kinda know -why- in my case [I think], alcohol; but I've been off the stuff for 13 months....tea total'r, diet 7up, lost 50 lbs [now about 180], ALL blood work is within normal limits [hell my cholestorol is 137] and they still happen.  And WHY can one go for 4, or 5 days or a week or two even, and NOT have one, and then all of the sudden...their back?  Yesterday when I posted my first post here I had them all day and the day before that!  But the previous 4-5 days were GLORIUS, No PVC's, no palp's, just enjoying the day(s) of life.

Why, may not be the question.  What, may be the best question for me to ask.  *WHAT* makes'em start?  I don't know??

*Sidenote:  Does anyone else have PVC's PAC's, skipped beats, extra beats etc., when just "moving a little to quick", i.e., bending over, or while starting to sit down [from a standing position], or while starting to stand up [from a sitting position], reaching across your body to get something [like the remote *grin].  This does not happen ALL the time, but many times, especially when the "beats from hell" are on a run!