beta blockers and ejection fraction

[sierra]

Do beta blockers effect the ejection fraction results on an echocardiogram?  I have read that one side effect of beta blocker use can be heart failure.  How does this happen, and can long term use (12 years) be responsible for a marginally low EF of 47%?

Sierra

[CCF CARDIO MD JMF]

Beta blockers are a mainstay of treatment for ischemic heart disease, arrhythmias as well as heart failure.  However, due to their effects as a direct myocardial suppresant and through a decrease in heart rate, they may cause heart failure as a side effect.

[jan]

Hi, It's me, again.  The 12.5 mg of atenolol was not enough to keep my heart rate down, so my doc added 180 mg of verapamil. I feel pretty good.  I am still having periods of tachy. and almost passed out recently from it,so I am now taking salt tablets (to help with the tachy and syncope).  I had the choice of florinef or giving salt tablets a try.  I am not going on florinef one way or the other.  I heard it really messes up your electrolytes. He is, also, talking about trying zoloft to help with the syncope (NCS). I told him I am not concerned with the syncope, I always have near syncope with warnings.  The only thing I have to worry about is the tachy,so...  Hope, maybe you could ask your doc about this combo (atenolol and verapamil).  How's everybody else doing?

[Hope]

I currently take 200 mg. of atenolol a day for Svt and I am emtremely tired all of the time and am still experiencing the racing heart.

[SP]

I also had AV node re-entry. SVT. I had an ablation and was the one in a million with complications.  I felt worse on a daily after the ablation than with the SVT.  I had extrme bouts of coughing --feeling like I was full all the time.  I had runs of sinus node problems.  Apparenlty my path was wiped out.  I was told that sometimes people with AV node re-entry have a wide coronary sinus so ablating was more tricky. I went immediatley into Heart Block.  The next year was pretty horrible although I tried to keep my spirits up--I was essentially trying to avoid a pacer.  After a year I had a pacemaker put in. I am an avid exerciser, hiker, biker and this has cramped my style a bit!!  Do I feel better? On the whole--on a daily basis YES--Although when I am active I still have problems.  I also had pericarditis and continue to have some funny chest pain from it.  The MD's have no answer for the pain or SOB. I take beta blockers (corgard--no problems with extreme fatigue like atenalol) because my rates continue to go up.  I do get frustrated at this whole thing and sometimes feel very preoccupied with it all. Last week--they thought they heard a murmur --or aortic regurg--What next.  I would love to hear from folks with similar issues--forum is great--thanks in advance for any responses.

[Thea on Saturday, Sept. 1,2000]

Aloha, Kenny.  I am also young, 40 yrs old, and my cardiologist is considering putting me on low dose beta blockers, as they are apparently the newest thing for cardiomyopathy.  I still haven't done it yet, but am getting concerned since I have two young children to think about.  I hear/have read you should not stop any beta blocker or other meds cold turkey.  I too worry about taking them and then stopping should there be side effects.  There seem to be so many to choose from.  I'll talk again after checking it out more...try www.google.com search engine for the meds you are taking..there are a lot of articles out there.  My doctor is great, but he doesn't know much about natural alternatives or supplements..CoQ10, L-Carnitine, etc.  If you are a vegan, you should check your levels of L-Carnitine as it is an amino acid used by the heart, and only found in meat and dairy products. I think from reading this forum I am going to stay away from altenolol, unless it can produce miracles..

Glad I found this website.  I'm new.  Will be here again.  Good luck....

[kenny]

I am a relatively young human to be using atenolol...
#39 yrs old after a Mytocardial Infarction at the age of 31.

Using 25 mgs of the drug daily seems to be OK.
It was my decision to go down from 50 mgs. and my Dr. OK'd it.

One day I skipped it, and I "thought" I felt a difference.
Since I am Vegan, very active, I would like to GIVE IT UP>>>!

One Dr. I met with thought I did not need it.

Q:  What can I expect as PHYSICAL manifestations
of not using the drug any more. Should I go down to 12.5 mgs
first....Who has experienced the "withdrawal?"

Mahalo

[jan]

Hi,
It's been 3 weeks since cutting back the atenolol and it was definitely the cause of my depression. I told my EP this morning and he agreed and said it was a known side effect.  I feel so much better.  Of course he is having me do a holter to be sure the arrhythmia is under control.  Oh, by the way, I passed the thallium stress test!  Yes!  One less thing to be concerned about.  I hope you all are doing well.

[jan]

Have you spoken to your dr. about your anxieties over this?  I would think he would give you beta blocker treatment or something for anxiety.  You need to talk to him for your own sake and the sake of your marriage.

[Gary]

I am a 33 year old male suffering from palpatations.  I have always had them since I was 18 but I only got them after drinking a lot of caffeine (once or twice a month).  I am very scared, echo stress tests and thallium test have not led to any conclusive dx.

My marriage is in jeopardy because I am being treated as if I am faking or "crazy" at this point.  I am scared and alone.  In the last three weeks I have experienced them during sexual activity as well as at rest lasting for as long as 10-20 minutes usually around mid afternoon.

I need a friend.  I am so scared.

[jan]

Hi Jen, I was told originally I had SVT,too.  IST is a form of SVT, but it is rare.  (In an encyclopedia it listed SVT as a range of heart rate). Anyway, IST is diagnosed by a process of elimination usually.  Mine was diagnosed because of the occurence during my tilt table test, I have read others were diagnosed that way, too. (But that's not what the tilt table test is for.  It is to diagnose neurocardiogenic syncope, which I have.) Just before taking the test the tech said that seeing my cardio. (my 1st one) said I had SVT, he should have ordered an ep study. So, I guess an ep study is standard for SVT. If you go to "search" on this forum and look up "inappropriate sinus tachycardia" and SVT you'll learn alot, this is how I got most of my info.  I hope this has helped.  :o)

[jan]

Hi Jen, I was told originally I had SVT,too.  IST is a form of SVT, but it is rare.  (In an encyclopedia it listed SVT as a range of heart rate). Anyway, IST is diagnosed by a process of elimination usually.  Mine was diagnosed because of the occurence during my tilt table test, I have read others were diagnosed that way, too. (But that's not what the tilt table test is for.  It is to diagnose neurocardiogenic syncope, which I have.) Just before taking the test the tech said that seeing my cardio. (my 1st one) said I had SVT, he should have ordered an ep study. So, I guess an ep study is standard for SVT. If you go to "search" on this forum and look up "inappropriate sinus tachycardia" and SVT you'll learn alot, this is how I got most of my info.  I hope this has helped.  :o)

[Jen S]

Thanks for your responses, Jan and Lee. I am also concerned, after hearing about other misdiagnoses that maybe I don't have just SVT, but a problem with my sinus node. Can the doctors be sure of what you have without doing and EP study? They looked at my heart rhythm on a sheet of paper from EKG and said I had SVT.
Is that how they tell the difference?

[Jen S]

Thanks for your responses, jan and lee.
I was wondering about having SVT vs. sinus node trouble. I was told by en ER nurse after reading my EKG that I had SVT. How can they tell if that is what it is for sure without doing an EP study?

[jan]

Hi Jen and Lee,
Re-entrant SVT is from an extra electrical pathway.  I have inappropriate sinus tachycardia, this is something wrong with my sinus node.  If I don't respond satisfactorily to the meds. then they will try an ablation, but there is usually a need for a pacemaker then and that is why my dr. wants to try everything else first.  I, also, have mvp with mild regurg. and mild tricuspid regurg.  I don't believe that would interfere at all with an ablation.  You know, Jen, being perfectly honest I would be hesitant to get an ablation, too.  It's scarey.  As far as the magnesium, I do take calcium/magnesium supplements and drink bottled water.  I will ask my dr. about the magnesium.  Last year when I found out about my heart conditions and started reading this forum I felt depressed also ( besides the fact that I had just lost my mother to CHF 4 mos. before).  I think everybody needs some time to adjust and accept the diagnosis.  I do think I feel better since cutting back the atenolol, as far as the depression, but I still am on a wait and see basis. However, I'm not sure it's enough to control the arrhythmia.  I have an appt. in about 1 1/2 weeks. May I suggest Relax-o-zyme by Enzymatic Therapy for stress, I don't take it according to the instructions, that would be too much for me.

[lee to cindy]

don't feel dumb jen.  all these initials, denoting conditions are driving me crazy too!  we need some sort of "dictionary" for thee abreviations.  
you're right about "this heart business" getting us down.  My husband gets depressed everytime he reads the forum with me..so guess who does most of the reading?  he see's his doctor this friday and hopefully can cut ack some on atenolol, jan.  take  a look at the question posted by marisha on magnesium, if you haven't already.  i know for a fact that it is very significant in heart problems.  we keep hoping that one day we'll be able to use natural methods methods  with safer or no side effects which can help these heart problems "we" all share.  i have so much compassion for all of you.  once in awhile i get very frightened about something or other and know this must be the fear you experience on an everyday basis.  I use Bach flower essences when this happens (and so does my husband) and it helps.  check your health food store or the web for info.  they have been around for 70 years and becoming more and more known and used.  they do not interact  with any meds or food etc.  good luck.

[Jen S]

To Lee and Jan:

I feel dumb - I am not sure what re-entrant SVT's are - I was just told I have SVT!! The atenolol does not have any terrible side effects but I still have PVC's and sporadic SVT attacks - like today - which just happened to be the first day of my menstral cycle - they always seem to happen then, but the docs dismiss it...
Jan, is there no surgery you can have to help you? I was also told by one cardiologist I have MVP - would that affect an ablation? I just am scared to face the possibility of something going wrong, even though "they" say 95% of abltions are successful. Does anyone have any ablation info? You can e-mail me directly at ***@****
Than for caring, I hope you all feel better Let's try and not let his heart thing monopolize our lives, although it is hard!

[lee to cindy]

ablation doesn't necessarily work to remedy the problem, in which case sometimes stronger meds or pacemaker or both need to be used.  that is my understanding of ablation.

[jan]

Hi Lee,from what I've read ablation works pretty well for re-entrant SVT's. Jen had mentioned in her 1st post that she was being treated for SVT's. I guess it really is a personal thing, you have to weigh the risks with how you are feeling (if you have a choice). The truth be known, I think alot of the tests and such are scarey.  That is when you have to sign the consent and they're telling you that you can die from the procedure.  I wonder if anyone actually backs out after hearing that. This whole heart business can be unnerving and I hate having to wait for results of a test!  By the way, I have cut back my atenolol to just the morn. dose, I figured if I feel better I can tell my dr. at my next appt. (in 3 weeks). I am tiring earlier in the evening, I don't feel any peppier,yet, but I do feel clearer headed.  How is your husband doing?

[jan]

I just had my thallium stress test this morning, so it's back on the atenolol. I can't say if I felt any different being off of it, (other than being a lil short of breath during a period of tachycardia. Maybe just a lil less tired. I don't think 48 hrs. is long enough to really note a change.  I am on a low dose to begin with, 12.5 mg am and pm. I am thinking of asking the doc if I can cut out the morning dose to see if this helps to totally eliminate the tiredness and maybe get some spunk.  I know he'll want to do a holter monitor again, if he agrees, but that wouldn't bother me.
Jen, if I were you and could get an ablation for the SVT and therefore, get off of the atenolol, I would. I even read one of the dr.s on this forum tell someone exactly that.  Why take medication w/side effects the rest of your life?

[Jen S]

I am also taking 50mg of atenolol a day to prevent episodes of SVT - it has patially worked - I have not had SVT that feels like your heart is going to come out of your chest since I have been on it (3 yrs) but I still have rarely a few episodes  of a racing heart, but on the atenolol I am able to stop them by bearing down, whereas before I had to be injected with Adenocard at the ER room. I also suffer from panic attacks which cause my heart to terribly race - it's weird that so many of us suffer from pvcs, svt, and alos panic attacks that I often wonder if there is some connection - adrenaline sensitivity or something else? Does anyone know if catheter ablation can cure - my atenolol does not seem to help them.
Thanks for this website - it is a great comfort to know I am not alone.

[to Jen about pvc's]

Hello,

   From what I understand, most docs won't do ablation for pvc's.  They say it is a benign and harmless condition.  Have you tried medication?  I have pvc's and also svt.  I was prescribed a beta blocker for svt, but haven't had any pvc's that I've noticed since.  Good luck to you.

[Jen S.]

Soryy, I wanted to know if a catheter ablation could cure pvc's. I am scared to have the ablation despite its success rate due to possible complications or worsening of my situation. Also the pvc's - can they be fixed with ablation?
Thanks!

[lee to cindy]

sharon..which beta blocker are you on now,and how much are you on?  glad you're feeling so much better.  thanks for inf.  lee

[jan]

Sharon, did you just up and stop taking the atenolol, how much were you on and how long were you off before going into afib (was it literally the next day)? What were you on the atenolol for? What did the dr.s attribute the afib to?  I hope you don't mind all the questions. Thanks.