mom in law

[JRG]

Hi everyone:
My mom in law has been in the hospital for a week with multiple problems. She has congestive heart failure and severe regurgitiation of the mitral, aortic, and tricuspid valves. The heart surgeon has told us she is not a candidate for surgery. She has also had diabetes for about 42 years and is insulin dependant. She is 76 years old and about to have to return to a skilled care unit which she hates. The other alternative is hospice. The doctor has expressed his belief that she is not long for this world but for some reason doctors don't like to admit someone to a hospice unit. I think she would be much more comfortable there. My question is does anyone have any idea when someone is in this condition how much longer they can hold on and how hard should I push the doctor.

Thank you!
Jackie

[viennaustria]

You said she hates the "skilled care"....I don't know how much time she left? ..months..years?..one thing for sure I wont take my mom in law back to the care she hates. Why don't you give a place for her in your family home? It is sad to see old non wanted people be handled like a piece of item.
Don't do that to her .  
Don't forget she gave birth to your husband.
Do the right thing. Treat her as you would like to be treated 20-30 years from now.
Take care of each other !

[Happy2girls]

I think that was kind of harsh.  You don't know Jackie's situation or the extent of her Mother-in-law's needs.  Perhaps she is already caring for a disabled spouse or child.  Maybe her MIL does not want to live with her.  Perhaps the size of her home or finacial burdens prevent this type of arrangement.  Maybe Mother-in-law already does reside with Jackie but her needs have become too great and she requires more care than Jackie or her family can provide.  

[viennaustria]

Maybe blunt, I meant it to be.
Every situation can be explanted as you did line up here all the possible excuses.
Old people need to die with dignity.
She basically asking when we think she will die?
Sorry I am old fashioned in many ways this is one, and know no excuse when it comes to carrying with old parents.  I did my sacrifices financially when my mother were in a same situation and was proud of myself, because I loved her and did the right thing…oh sorry almost forget it was partly in Europe…I quit my well paid job in Canada came back with almost nothing, but was happy because it was the right thing to do… we were a little different there then how most people thinking about that in North America.
I fined it is sad. For us Family is first.

[Happy2girls]

Again I think you are being presumptuous.  It is admirable that you were able to take care of your mother in her dying days however it is not as simplistic as you make it seem.  I think the majority of people (European or otherwise) do not make the decision regarding the care of their eldery relatives lightly.  It can be heart wrenching and far reaching.  When my mother-in-law passed several years ago we invited my father-in-law to live with us and it has been a very real blessing for us as well as my children.  However, the truth is that had it been my mother-in-law who was the surviving parent we would not have been able to extend the offer.  She was a chain smoking, alcoholic whose personality was abrasive and abusive.  Her children still suffer damage from their childhood.  I have two young daughters and had to think of them, I could not have provided a place for her without compromising my daughter's welfare.  My point is that it is unfair to sit in judgement of anyone without being aware of all the issues.  And not all issues are surmountable.  

[FLBrat]

Unfortunately Jackie chose to ask a question that really could be taken in a presumptuos manner.  I do believe that if you put yourself out there on a open forum that you have to expect the good with the bad.  I had chose to ignore this post as I was "turned off" by the question.  It sat unaswered for the day, wonder why??  A response that we as adults should take responsiblility came and oops, there it goes.  Free speech gets monitored.  Yes, she may have umpteen reasons not to care for the old gal, but then again....  Not everyone is going to think the same way, I can appreciate a blunt answer as well as honey coated answers.  Reality in this situation is, a decision needs to be made REGARDLESS of the amount of time remaining in this elderly woman's life.  I would not put my mom or my MIL in a  "home", no matter how nice, period.  I cared for my senile granny (90 yrs) for three months a year for several years to give Mom a break.  This is while I had three kids at home and a more than full time job.  I tended my mom after her bypass.  I owe these people and will happily do for them just as they have for me.  Sorry about your MIL, and good thing about Pops.  Our elderly have a lot to share if only we would stop long enough to listen.

Jackie, time remaining is not a decider.  Do what you feel is best, what you know you can live with.

V- I have heard that the Alaskan Indians used to send the elderly off on the ice flows back in the old days...

[viennaustria]

Our own good or bad experiences with people including our own family can make us ‘colorblind ‘sometimes .
  
Jackie might not come back to comment on.  

Brat I hope we won’t born there in our next life. Our good karma will help us.:)
Or wait: it requires time traveling. :)

[pvcqueen]

you all have certainly looked at this from all angles.  JRG..........can you tell us more?

[often]

I have seen people slide quickly and have seen some hang in there for a couple of years...none of us can know, though the docs can come up with some good guestimates.

V  -  Once I get to the stage that I need a lot of care, I want my kids to put me somewhere halfway decent.  If it becomes a "memory care" issue, I don't care...because after all, I won't remember.  I don't want my daughter having to deal with it if we can afford to farm me out.  And my son and DIL...well, you know the situation there and I think that would be unfair.  I guess we all have our different ways of dealing with things....If we are lucky, we will all go quick and it won't be an issue.

[JRG]

Wow. I guess this wasn't taken in the way I meant it. My mom in law moved here 3 years ago to be near us. She weighs about 300 lbs. She can barely stand and only with someone pulling and holding her up. I have sat by her bedside when she didn't even know who I was while she cursed me when she would be out of her mind with a bad infection. I have fed her and cleaned her. When she was like a baby and play in her waste it was I who would clean out from under her fingernails. Veinaustria, I am so glad you could care for your mom in her time of need but everyones situation is different. I weigh 107 lbs and couldn't physically take care of her. I would be doing her harm if I tried. I would end up hurting her or myself. They have to use a lift at the nursing home. I also have two children to take care of that have to be my primary concern. My husband travels 75% of the time. I never judge anyone unless I have walked a mile in their shoes. I was not put on this earth to judge people you obviously think you were.

The reason I asked this question is because I thought someone might have been in a simular situation with a loved one and I want to do the best thing for her. I visit with her every day even though my responsibilties sometimes don't allow for this. No one has a crystal ball and can determine a person's lifespan but I thought I could get some advice to help make a horrible decision.Someone said treat her as I would want to be treated in 20 or 30 years. Well the last thing I would ever want to be is a burden to either of my children. I could not give her the care she needs at home. I wish I could. The doctor decided she would have to go back to skilled care so the decision is made.

Everyone should always think before they speak. It would make the world a much better place.
God Bless
Jackie

[pvcqueen]

I think you made the wise , and the only choice.  Don't be too harsh on anybody...........nobody knows the situation completely ...... and these are generic comments, in response to a generic question.  This is difficult, but it is the right thing to do............it still isn't easy.  I have been there,  both ways, home and skilled care.        the visits, the laundry and the "guilt" with the skilled care choice is not so easy either.  I was lucky, my  father in law weighed about 120 lbs, but he was a handful, and passive agressive, as well as confused at times, incontinent, and stubborn.  My husbandf cried the day he went to the nursung home, but it had to be done.  I wish you well.

[FLBrat]

Looks like you really have no real choice.  Good luck.

[viennaustria]

" I want to do the best thing for her"

you do say it ,but you did not do the best for her , she hates to be there..

" I thought I could get some advice to help make a horrible decision"
  
we all have to live with our horrible decisions , you too.

"The doctor decided she would have to go back to skilled care so the decision is made"

good DR. he made it easier for you.


"Everyone should always think before they speak. It would make the world a much better place."
Agree, but this is the nature of boards like that, sorry...you not always get what you want to hear .

"I was not put on this earth to judge people you obviously think you were. "
  I didn't judge you ,I don't know you,you have your exuse , it is still an exuse in my eyes.
  If she hates it there I feel SORRY FOR HER .

  hope she wont suffer long.

[viennaustria]

excuse with c


What you wanted is that the reassurance you do the right thing. It is a false saint act to me, sorry.

[Tarheelguy1967]

Vienna, you made your comments - was it really necessary to come in for the kill.  I appreciate your "tough love" approach to advice at times, but in my opinion you crossed the line with your answer here.  You say you didn't judge the poster, but you most certainly did in a very strong way - especially with your "false saint act" comment.  Such a comment should require much more knowledge of a person, and you are quite presumptious here.  I'm sure you'll come back at me w/ something harsh, and that is okay.   But I just want to see if you can handle hearing a negative comment about yourself, since you are sometimes quite quick to provide them to others (see if you can take your own medicine).  I usually try and keep quiet and ignore these things, but for some reason your posts on this thread made me want to write.  I applaud your efforts to take care of your mom the way you did, but that was YOUR way.  And your way might not be right for everyone - doesn't mean they don't love their parents just as much as you do.  Good luck to all, but I encourage this site to be helpful, not simply mean.  I understand/agree that sometimes a harsh response is more helpful and needed, but I think you crossed the line w/ this one Vienna.  Good luck to all.

[JRG]

I could only read your response and shake my head. What kind of shape was your mom in? How much did she weigh? Have you ever tried moving someone that is dead weight and weighs over 200 more pounds than you? When a person is of this age and health their skin is like paper and without the proper care and equipment their skin just peels away at anything and they bruise with a touch. I am glad it was a situation you could take care of your mom but did you not read that I physically cannot. If I tried she would be hurt every time I had to turn her or get her to a bedside comode or even get her to sit up. I think you see only what you want to see.

As far as the saint comment, lets ask you a few questions. Were you married when your mom was ill? Did you have children to care for? Did you have anyone else to take care of and consider other than yourself when she was ill?
It takes a big person to correct a spelling error on a anonymous forum and follow it with a saint comment. I think that shows me the kind of person you are.

I want to say thank you to the other comments everyone has made. I just wanted to make the right decision on where was the best place for her at this time. I don't want her moved around anymore than needed.

God Bless
Jackie

[Happy2girls]

Please ignore V's comment...when one is on a high horse it can be hard to see.

Is your Mother-in-law mentally unable to participate in this decision?  I have no first hand experience with Hospice but from what I hear it is a wonderful alternative for those who are terminally ill.  Perhaps you could talk with her doctor to find out why he opposes such care.  If that fails then maybe you could take her medical records to a hospice in your area and sit and talk with a counselor there about how you might be able to get your MIL into the program.  Sorry I have no more solid advice to offer.  I wish you well in this tough and very personal decision.  God bless.        

[viennaustria]

You can call it what ever you want to call it or me. That’s fine with me.  
I stand up for what I said. I am not an angel and I know I did do things I could do differently, then I just ‘swallow’ it. I won’t go with it to an open massage board for ‘support’ of my ‘wrong’ doing, just to get justification.
Or if I go…like in this dialog …I can go blunt and can get back the same blunt answer ,like I get it from you. Fine with me. :)
Yes I strongly believe it is a 'wrong' doing not to PROVIDE care at home in a family setting for old sick parents. IN CASES LIKE THIS WE TALKING ABOUT , AS OP STATED IN HER FIRST POST : MOTHER IN LAW  HATED  THE PLACE SHE WAS IN. I don’t care if they are hard to lift, if they last some control, etc. Send them to an institution is heartless soulless, poor choice. Point. Period !

If the old, ill , like the place or choice of her/his institutional care it is different story.

Now if the old and ill hates the institution as in this case.

Some people have no other choice. (?) Maybe. But that is the point when they have to look at in to there heart deep and should pick up the right solution.
Professional help is available at home setting!!!!
It cost money? Right it does. Like everything in life.
How many hundreds, thousands we spend on junks.
We are here on this earth because our parents are/ were, people greatly underestimate this.

I know millions are doing it, still doesn’t make it right.

About my false saint note.

I was on an other board this old women over 80 was a big ‘saint ‘
Doing regular bible reading in her home, never let the ‘Lord’ the 'God bless', out from her posts. She was living alone .but in a lovely and helping happy relationship with her many kids and grandkids, they had regular visits and get togethers  
Her also old brother had few months to live, and being alone had no other choice then just die in an institution that he was hating…..she was sorry…he had a WISH to die home with her…..he didn’t, he didn’t get the biggest gift they could of give him ..The lovely family….
…they might still read their bible ….now this is what I call falls saint act …  

Have a good day to you too.

[JRG]

Thanks for the comment. The doctor made the decision because he said he couldn't give me a clear date on how long she could live. He then said even if he approved it that the hospice nurses would have to look it over again. I am going to see how she does in the next couple of weeks and make a determination on if I should move her or not.

Her mental state is on and off. Sometimes she is very clear and knows what is going on and other times she doesn't know where she is or why she is in bed. It depends on how sick she is. They have had a really hard time keeping infection out of her body especially in her kidneys. They have had three kinds of antibiotics dripping into her IV valve for the last week and they  still said she has bacteria and e-coli growing. I think she has had so many infections that she is becoming resistant to the antibiotics. She has became sepsus before and we almost lost her. Her kidneys are functioning at less than 50%.

God Bless
Jackie

[scrat42000]

Sounds like the skilled care situation is the correct answer.  We all need to recognize our limitations.  As the situation is described, there would be no way I would attempt it.  She needs to be where she will be given the best care by attendants that have the knowledge and equipment to give it.  Whether she likes to be there or not is of no matter.  When I was in hospital with heart problems, I didn't like it one bit, but it was the correct place to be to get the care I needed at the time.

As for how we would like to be treated 20 or 30 years from now, I would hope that my decision makers will make the decision to pull the plug at the appropriate time.  Maybe assisted suicide will be accepted by then also.

[viennaustria]

When I went home to take care of my mother ,I had a husband who just lost his job, 2 teenager ,a dog and the best job I ever had. I took all the money I had.

When came back , I got  my job back, soon I got an other job too. My husband got 2 jobs by then, my kids learned how to take care of themselves and how to earn money in part time and from their hobbies.

I had  open window  airplane tickets for one  year. I came back less then 3 months.

She had cancer and died in a happy setting in her own apartment with smile on her face !  

[pvcqueen]

nice to see you again....did you say hi to jack?

[pvcqueen]

i am proud of you, sis

[JRG]

I am so glad that you were able to do what you thought was right. These are different circumstances though. I don't know if you have ever cared for someone in the condition like she is in. My sister in law died of cancer but she was mobile until the last week of her life and able to get around. The last week we had to lift her and clean her etc. but she only weighed 140. She also had her right mind. She died at home. It was the right decision for her. I don't know why you cannot grasp that there are circumstances where a skilled care is more humane and better than struggling at home and causing damage to the person. I hope you never find yourself in the situation I am in with a loved one in this condition.
God Bless
Jackie

[viennaustria]

Thank you sis. ! :)