Aa
Statin Cardiomyopathy and CoQ10
Dear Dr.
I read a site on the internet about this doctor in Texas who is reporting that there is an epidemic of Statin induced Cardiomyopathy going on. He said that Statins deplete the body of CoQ10 and eventually cause Cardiomyopathy and Hearty Failure.
He says the FDA will not acknowledge this. I am 36 years old and am on Zocor 20mg and on Toprol XL 50 mg which they say also depletes the body of CoQ10. I am afraid of getting Cardiomyopathy and Heart Failure now after reading this. What do you think about this theory? Could you please comment further on this big scare going on? Could this be a ploy to try and sell CoQ10 products?
I read a site on the internet about this doctor in Texas who is reporting that there is an epidemic of Statin induced Cardiomyopathy going on. He said that Statins deplete the body of CoQ10 and eventually cause Cardiomyopathy and Hearty Failure.
He says the FDA will not acknowledge this. I am 36 years old and am on Zocor 20mg and on Toprol XL 50 mg which they say also depletes the body of CoQ10. I am afraid of getting Cardiomyopathy and Heart Failure now after reading this. What do you think about this theory? Could you please comment further on this big scare going on? Could this be a ploy to try and sell CoQ10 products?
The link to this article about the history of Coezyme Q10 was posted a week or so ago. Interesting:
http://www.n3inc.com/SmartMoney%20Reprint_103003Web.pdf
http://www.n3inc.com/SmartMoney%20Reprint_103003Web.pdf
Thanks tony!
Hey fella, it's Big Mick here...... I thought that that Pluto dude I had some exchange with on one or two recent threads regarding runs of ectopics seemed a particularly OK guy (along with Eric too)..... now I know why................. Hank (-:
Still awaiting to see if my last Holter caught a run of ectopics or some NSVT or whatever: since I didn't hear back from the Hospital pronto I'm assuming nothing too dodgy showed up - they said I would if it did. Will let yer know as soon as I do. Is a run of PVCS ALWAYS NSVT? If so, what is a run of PACs.... flutter??!! I'm STILL confused as to this business of 'runs' of ectopics..... can they exist in there own right as opposed to being a specific type/s of arrythmia such as NSVT or flutter? Earlier today I had a few-second run of a fast asymptomatic beats at around 160-180 bpm.... hopefully the short run of the same caught on the Holter will at last put me in the picture as to what is going on. Even though NSVT isn't supposed to be overly bad news in a structurally normally and otherwise healthy heart, I've a feeling I'm still going to be a little freaked out if that's what shows up......
BM
Still awaiting to see if my last Holter caught a run of ectopics or some NSVT or whatever: since I didn't hear back from the Hospital pronto I'm assuming nothing too dodgy showed up - they said I would if it did. Will let yer know as soon as I do. Is a run of PVCS ALWAYS NSVT? If so, what is a run of PACs.... flutter??!! I'm STILL confused as to this business of 'runs' of ectopics..... can they exist in there own right as opposed to being a specific type/s of arrythmia such as NSVT or flutter? Earlier today I had a few-second run of a fast asymptomatic beats at around 160-180 bpm.... hopefully the short run of the same caught on the Holter will at last put me in the picture as to what is going on. Even though NSVT isn't supposed to be overly bad news in a structurally normally and otherwise healthy heart, I've a feeling I'm still going to be a little freaked out if that's what shows up......
BM
Be sure to let us know what your holter showed that Rythm was. Good luck!
Erik
Erik
Erik,
I personally don't think you should lose any sleep over Dr. Langsjoen's statin induced cardiomyopathy claim. It's still largely unproven at this point but it does, I agree, raise some interesting questions. I hadn't heard of this until you raised the subject and, being curious, did a google search. I found a good summary (published Feb. 2004)at:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/feb2004_awsi_01.htm
Dr. Lansjoen's case is spelled out in detail at:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/May02/052902/02p-0244-cp00001-02-Exhibit_A-vol1.pdf
and Dr. Julian Whitaker's petition to the FDA may be found at:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/May02/052902/02p-0244-cp00001-01-vol1.pdf
I think Dr. Lansjoen has made a reasonable case establishing the fact that statins deplete CoQ10 levels in the body (and cites a number of human trials and animal studies). And even the Physician's Desk Reference states that "an estimated 0.5 - 2.3% patients who use statins experience adverse effects (including myopathies)". But as CCF-M.D.-RCJ points out, there is no evidence that taking supplimental CoQ10 helps reverse the statin induced deficiency, even though taking suppliments would seem to be an intuitive solution to any difficiency.
If you don't want to give up your statins and the slight possibility of developing a myopathy still concerns you, you might take some CoQ10 just to be safe.
Netrox,
Yes. I read where Merck has the patents (filed way back in 1989, 1990) allowing it to be the only company to produce and sell a statin/CoQ10 combo capsule. Their patents (even back then) acknowledge that the CoQ10 is included to counter the possibility of developing a statin-induced cardiomyopathy.
How much of this is hype and how much not is difficult to decipher. My primary care physician swears by the merits of CoQ10 for general heart health. On the other hand, my cardiologist claims CoQ10 is just a waste of money.
Tony
I personally don't think you should lose any sleep over Dr. Langsjoen's statin induced cardiomyopathy claim. It's still largely unproven at this point but it does, I agree, raise some interesting questions. I hadn't heard of this until you raised the subject and, being curious, did a google search. I found a good summary (published Feb. 2004)at:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/feb2004_awsi_01.htm
Dr. Lansjoen's case is spelled out in detail at:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/May02/052902/02p-0244-cp00001-02-Exhibit_A-vol1.pdf
and Dr. Julian Whitaker's petition to the FDA may be found at:
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/May02/052902/02p-0244-cp00001-01-vol1.pdf
I think Dr. Lansjoen has made a reasonable case establishing the fact that statins deplete CoQ10 levels in the body (and cites a number of human trials and animal studies). And even the Physician's Desk Reference states that "an estimated 0.5 - 2.3% patients who use statins experience adverse effects (including myopathies)". But as CCF-M.D.-RCJ points out, there is no evidence that taking supplimental CoQ10 helps reverse the statin induced deficiency, even though taking suppliments would seem to be an intuitive solution to any difficiency.
If you don't want to give up your statins and the slight possibility of developing a myopathy still concerns you, you might take some CoQ10 just to be safe.
Netrox,
Yes. I read where Merck has the patents (filed way back in 1989, 1990) allowing it to be the only company to produce and sell a statin/CoQ10 combo capsule. Their patents (even back then) acknowledge that the CoQ10 is included to counter the possibility of developing a statin-induced cardiomyopathy.
How much of this is hype and how much not is difficult to decipher. My primary care physician swears by the merits of CoQ10 for general heart health. On the other hand, my cardiologist claims CoQ10 is just a waste of money.
Tony
I read somewhere that statins may deplete CoQ10 and that a statin manufacturer has patented the statin/CoQ10 combo drug to reduce or prevent potentially dangerous side effects associated with statin therapy. I don't know if it's selling now or not.
-jeff
-jeff
Hank,
I will try to send an email later this evening..I have alot of new news..I saw a Dr. last week (3 days testing) at JH. I actually got his name from one of the CCF Drs. on this site. It was a rheumatology evaluation for my systemic sclerosis (scleroderma). The news isn't that great but then I guess thats life, isn't it?...I did have my cardiology work-up and my esophageal surgery last year at CCF but alot has happened since then. We have our grandkids tonight so it will be after bed time when I have time to type alot..Later, Tessa
I will try to send an email later this evening..I have alot of new news..I saw a Dr. last week (3 days testing) at JH. I actually got his name from one of the CCF Drs. on this site. It was a rheumatology evaluation for my systemic sclerosis (scleroderma). The news isn't that great but then I guess thats life, isn't it?...I did have my cardiology work-up and my esophageal surgery last year at CCF but alot has happened since then. We have our grandkids tonight so it will be after bed time when I have time to type alot..Later, Tessa
Hank, I'm so happy to see you back here again...I don't often post but I read almost all the threads when I have time..I missed reading yours..Also, I tried to send you an email but it didn't go. Problem with your email or mine?...Thanks, Tessa
In the doctor's response to my question, he does not agree or refute the theory that the use of Statins causes Cardiomyopathy and Heart Failure. He only states " The leading statin researchers in the country are here at CCF. There opinion is we simply don't know if CoQ10 helps or not".
What exactly does he mean by "help or not". Help with what? Is he acknowledging that Statin use does cause CoQ10 deficiency and eventually Cardiomyopathy? I just want a straight answer but no one seems to want to give me one. If there is any truth to this Statin-induced Cardiomyopathy, it could have huge repercussions in the medical community. I for one hope it is not true. I don't want to stop taking Zocor but I will if I have to. Does anyone else out there take Statins such as Zocor, Lipitor, Mevacor, Pravacol or Crestor? What do you think? Should we be taking Coq10 suplements?
What exactly does he mean by "help or not". Help with what? Is he acknowledging that Statin use does cause CoQ10 deficiency and eventually Cardiomyopathy? I just want a straight answer but no one seems to want to give me one. If there is any truth to this Statin-induced Cardiomyopathy, it could have huge repercussions in the medical community. I for one hope it is not true. I don't want to stop taking Zocor but I will if I have to. Does anyone else out there take Statins such as Zocor, Lipitor, Mevacor, Pravacol or Crestor? What do you think? Should we be taking Coq10 suplements?
Good to see you back, Hank.
After my heart attack 5 years ago I began taking a lot of supplements, one of them being CoQ10. Very few supplements show any noticable effect in the short term, so it's really hard to tell whether they are having any effect or not.
In the long term CoQ10 was having an effect on my wallet, as it's quite expensive. I ended cutting back to a good muti-vitamin, Vitamin-E, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic acid, and occasionally an Omega 3 supplement.
Why them, I don't really know, except that somehow I gained a belief that, of all the supplements I had taken, these were the most important to me. In the case of Vitamin E, I don't believe in blood thinners and have an aspirin allergy, and I have come to unscientific opinion that it has prevented thrombotic events.
I've been on aggressive 3 drug cholesterol medication for several years, but only take 20Mg of lipitor.
Even though I have advanced non-revascularized three vessel CAD, a totally occluded RCA and a big old scar in my heart, my LV size remains normal, my EF has come back to normal and I have a lot of physical capability. If CoQ10 depletion is a problem, I can't detect any effects from it at the moment. I have thought about adding it again because I have read similar items in the past, but I guess that it doesn't seem that important to me.
A couple of weeks ago a guy, who probably had a clean bill of health, died on one of the local peaks, here in the Northwest of a heart attack. When I heard it I took the next day off and climbed it just to see if I was going to live the summer -- no problem.
I do think that I could still pass the physical to get into the military if I wasn't over the age limit and they didn't know my history.
Regards
In the long term CoQ10 was having an effect on my wallet, as it's quite expensive. I ended cutting back to a good muti-vitamin, Vitamin-E, Folic Acid, Alpha Lipoic acid, and occasionally an Omega 3 supplement.
Why them, I don't really know, except that somehow I gained a belief that, of all the supplements I had taken, these were the most important to me. In the case of Vitamin E, I don't believe in blood thinners and have an aspirin allergy, and I have come to unscientific opinion that it has prevented thrombotic events.
I've been on aggressive 3 drug cholesterol medication for several years, but only take 20Mg of lipitor.
Even though I have advanced non-revascularized three vessel CAD, a totally occluded RCA and a big old scar in my heart, my LV size remains normal, my EF has come back to normal and I have a lot of physical capability. If CoQ10 depletion is a problem, I can't detect any effects from it at the moment. I have thought about adding it again because I have read similar items in the past, but I guess that it doesn't seem that important to me.
A couple of weeks ago a guy, who probably had a clean bill of health, died on one of the local peaks, here in the Northwest of a heart attack. When I heard it I took the next day off and climbed it just to see if I was going to live the summer -- no problem.
I do think that I could still pass the physical to get into the military if I wasn't over the age limit and they didn't know my history.
Regards
Well I guess maybe we both sort of got an answer on why I was told not to take it. I live in Ky so I know the drs here know a lot less about the product than the drs at Cleveland.
Does Statin use cause a depletion of CoQ10 levels in humans?
Sorry for the re-questioning and thanks a million for your time!
Sorry for the re-questioning and thanks a million for your time!
Doctor, I interpret what you said in the above post to "erikwithoutthedoctor", it is not necessary to consume CoQ10 based on the fact that doctors at CCF have no proof that taking additional CoQ10 has any beneficial benefits.
I have taken CoQ10 for the past six or so years at the recommendation of two different doctors whom both said take it for the rest of my life. I have taken the "top end" brands.
I can say taking CoQ10 has shown no alleviation of pvc's in any form or fashion. I do not believe CoQ10 has prevented me from having more attacks of pvc's than I experience each day and even as I write this.
Thank you
I have taken CoQ10 for the past six or so years at the recommendation of two different doctors whom both said take it for the rest of my life. I have taken the "top end" brands.
I can say taking CoQ10 has shown no alleviation of pvc's in any form or fashion. I do not believe CoQ10 has prevented me from having more attacks of pvc's than I experience each day and even as I write this.
Thank you
Hank-
Where the heck have you been? I've missed seeing you on this site and have been wondering about you. I don't know why you told yourself never to come to this site again. You shouldn't stay away just because some people bombard you with comments on posting too much. As far as I am concerned you have no enemies here, only friends. There are some here who have nothing better to do but complain.
I would like your opinion on the Statin use and CoQ10 deficiency leading to cardiomyopathy and Heart failure. I am truly scared at reading this and that is why I posted more than one question within that two month window. Please give me your take on the Statin and Coq10 deficiency. Should I take CoQ10 since I take Zocor?
Erik
Where the heck have you been? I've missed seeing you on this site and have been wondering about you. I don't know why you told yourself never to come to this site again. You shouldn't stay away just because some people bombard you with comments on posting too much. As far as I am concerned you have no enemies here, only friends. There are some here who have nothing better to do but complain.
I would like your opinion on the Statin use and CoQ10 deficiency leading to cardiomyopathy and Heart failure. I am truly scared at reading this and that is why I posted more than one question within that two month window. Please give me your take on the Statin and Coq10 deficiency. Should I take CoQ10 since I take Zocor?
Erik
erikwithoutthedoctor,
Thanks for the post.
I did a google search and found the name of a Texas physician who has done research on CoQ10. The research he has published does not answer the question of whether or not persons with CoQ10 deficiency do better with supplementation.
The leading statin researchers in the country are here at CCF. Their opinion is that we simply don't know if CoQ10 helps or not.
Q:"Could this be a ploy to try and sell CoQ10 products?"
Bingo.
Best of luck.
Thanks for the post.
I did a google search and found the name of a Texas physician who has done research on CoQ10. The research he has published does not answer the question of whether or not persons with CoQ10 deficiency do better with supplementation.
The leading statin researchers in the country are here at CCF. Their opinion is that we simply don't know if CoQ10 helps or not.
Q:"Could this be a ploy to try and sell CoQ10 products?"
Bingo.
Best of luck.
You are reading content posted in the Heart Disease Forum
Is a low-fat diet really that heart healthy after all? James D. Nicolantonio, PharmD, urges us to reconsider decades-long dietary guidelines.
Can depression and anxiety cause heart disease? Get the facts in this Missouri Medicine report.
Fish oil, folic acid, vitamin C. Find out if these supplements are heart-healthy or overhyped.
Learn what happens before, during and after a heart attack occurs.
What are the pros and cons of taking fish oil for heart health? Find out in this article from Missouri Medicine.
How to lower your heart attack risk.
