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Food based multivitamins
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Food based multivitamins

I have been taking certain food based multivitamins (Rainbow Men Just One). Is it safe? There is 100% vitamin A, but no iron. Does that much of Vita A  plus dietary intake of vit A result in too much?

I also usually eat a lot of nuts (almond, cashew, peanuts). Will I have problem of iron overload?

Thanks!
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Avatar_m_tn

vitamin are useless for hbv but may improve general health if:
not chemical vitamins but from foods
vitamin A is toxic only betacarotene which is transformed into vitamin A by the liver is safe at any dose

check the link for substances that can help reduce liver fibrosis and improve liver function
http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Hepatitis/HepResearcher-doctor-on-various-topics/show/38?cid=153
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for your information. You are a model for all hbvers in terms of gaining knowledge, treatment and management of hbv. I really appreciate your very informative posts.

I am taking multivitamins for general health, but am concerned with their toxicity to liver. It seems to me that the weakness of immune system to hbv doesn't compromise its capability of fighting other diseases. I am generally health, seldom get sick for common causes like flu, etc, but am still not be able to fight off hbv. So for those people who self hbsag seroconverted, there must be something special that re-activate their capability to get rid of hbv. If it is general health, then a life style may help. I hope some research should be done in this direction and find a cure.

I will discuss my case with my doctor the coming Monday. Treatment is definitely the most important topic. What do you recommend in my case:

hbeag -
hbeab +
genotype B, aisan, 42 yo
precore mutant, but not BCP mutant
hbv dna ~40,000 copies/ml
AST/ALT 22/32
not sure about live biopsy details, but no cirrhosis as doctor told me. I will see the results at my appointment

Thanks!
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Avatar_m_tn
it is a mixture of hbv mutations probably and immune system a little more active because immune system is mainly regulated and suppressed by hbv to make persistent infection

tenofovir is the best and most potent drug i'd go for it, it might have sides on less than 1% patients with kidneys but since a new formulation 4.5 folds more potent without toxicity will be available soon there is no worries about sides in the long period

combo with nitazoxanide because it might make hbsag negative
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for your suggestion. I have a bit concern with my kidney, since I have kidney stones. Other than that, no kidney problem is found.

As you have mentioned in other posts, ntz is available in US, but some member in the forum mentioned the needs for prescription. Can you recommend another RELIABLE source to obtain the drug? Also unfortunately, it is hard to get hbsag quantitative tests. Is it any other method to determine the effectiveness of the drug?
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Avatar_m_tn

Other than that, no kidney problem is found.
monitor creatinine and gfr by 24hrs urine test monthly, at begining check creatinine every week and after every month

if you are in florida the member of this forum can suggest the doctor who prescribed, unfortunately ony hbsag quantitative can tell, you might also try other tests but you have to ask the lab if it is possible to use always the same diluition 1:1000 so that you can understand if it declines although not the quantity

i have send a message with the canadian pharmacy i use
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Avatar_m_tn
I have received your message. Thanks. I will make sure I can get some way to baseline hbsag, otherwise I would wait to see great progress of the first batch pioneer of taking ntz.

Back to nutrition, what are dosages of vitamin D, E and selenium for hbvers? I remember you have recommend dosages, but couldn't find it any more. Are you trying the antifibrotic compounds, like PPC? What dosage is recommended? For those PPC I can find, most of them are 900mg/tablet. Is it too much? Thanks.
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Avatar_m_tn

not yet because it might interfere with antivirals or ntz, just eating bluberries daily, coffee, green tea, omega3 and some cocao

you will find doses on HR post or google "hepatitis technology fibroscan" for the best liver antifibrotics supplements
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Avatar_m_tn
>not yet because it might interfere with antivirals or ntz, just eating bluberries daily, coffee, >green tea, omega3 and some cocao

Will vitamins interfere with anti-viral drugs? or only those antifibrotics?

I have seen my doctor. The live biopsy results are:
inflammation: 0-1
fibrosis: 0

The doctor has recommended and prescribe treatment with TDF, due to my age, being 40+ yo asian male. Considering anti-virals is one-way decision, do you have a second thought? I am asking not because I don't want to take tdf, but looking for any better options.

Thanks
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Avatar_m_tn

forgot to mention melatonin, soia and vitamin d by little sun exposure

soia, omega3 and cocao help me also to keep ldl cholesterol low and hdl cholesterol high, i had ldl little high and hdl low before using these

Will vitamins interfere with anti-viral drugs? or only those antifibrotics?
difficult to say and since we don t know it is better to take antivirals until hbvdna is und and after this add antifibrotic and vitamins

inflammation: 0-1
fibrosis: 0
you have no cirrhosis risk, mainly inactive carrier, only a little hgher liver cancer risk since genotype B, hbvdna 4log, precore mutant

prescribe treatment with TDF, due to my age, being 40+ yo........
your doctor is right because at your age you have higher liver cancer risk, no other risks, tenofovir is the best choice and in a couple of years we will have CMX157 (hexadecyloxypropyl tenofovir) which is more potent with no toxicity
the only alternative i see is try nitazoxanide first for 6-12 months at 1,5 or 2g daily dose and see if it lowers hbsag and hbvdna, if you don t see any improvement add tenofovir

at least nitazoxanide is not a one way and you can stop it plus it might eradicate hbsag
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi there,

Multivitamins are extremely valuable against HB. The virus uses the selenium mineral while in your liver to power its reproductive ability. Your own immune system requires selenium to convert to glutathione for the support of your own immune system and energy. The virus takes and depletes your selenium levels. Vitamin A and E are antioxidants and prevent oxidative stress that with HB can lead to damage. Vitamin D will boost your immune system as well. More people become sick with colds and flu’s in winter as the sun rays are at their weakest. Our bodies converts sun light to Vitamin D and in the winter time there is less sun thus less Vitamin D. Getting a cold or a Flu? You’d be better off increasing your Vitamin D rather than the C every one runs for and still gets sick.

You may want to look into Alpha Lipoic Acid to reveres fibrosis and protect the liver against damage, Chanca Piedra to reduce viral load naturally, Astragalus to stimulate the bodies own interferon response, green tea or Olive leaf extract as an additional option for anti viral protection. To help keep the liver clean and promote better sleep and strengthen the thymus, the producer of T-cells, L-Ornithine just before bed. Miatake and Shiitake mushrooms as anti viral by way of interferon activators.

I tried all of the above and reduce my VL from well over 10 Million to just 252 in a year and a half WITH OUT any pharmaceuticals

I was able to find published medical journals of all of the above regarding studies showing the efficacy of these substances. I also found a lot of data showing that the above substances were NOT proven or that more research was needed.

I chose to go with the substances that I could find multiple sources of the same results and kept in mind that natural effective treatments are a direct threat to the revenue of pharmaceuticals and motive to publish negative or inconclusive reports of the same substances I found published to be effective were suspect.

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Avatar_f_tn
correction to my last post.

The very last sentence the word effective should be ineffective!

Or to sum it up, all that stuff I tried works!
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Avatar_f_tn
what worked the best?

Chanca Piedra tea, made stron 3 glasses a day sweeten with real surgar or honey

Selenium 200 micro grams a day

Multi Vitamin/Mineral with increased Vitamin D and E

Astragalus 2, 2 times a day

Alpha Lipoic Acid 2, 2 times a day
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Avatar_m_tn

i am sorry but your posts are absolutely scam or wrong, antivirals do little to the virus, vitamins absolutely nothing to the virus

sorry but we have already seen studies and trials posted here about vitamins, they are useless for hbv and good only from diet and only when there is deficency.
vitamins are not good and can be toxic too and worsen health if there is not a deficency
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Avatar_f_tn


You can call it a scam but the scientific published medical research journals from the US, Germany and Japan proves otherwise. My viral loads prove otherwise as well. I have seen 3 specialist and they are all amazed that a chronic HB person with out meds have nearly cleared this.

Sammy Saab the best liver specialist in the country at UCLA was impressed at my latest low viral count. The first count was over 10 Million and the last only 252.

stefano170669
I never ask any one to take my word for it. Every one must research anything they put into their bodies. That is what lead and will lead many to this very site.

To all that research things and have come across these postings, continue your research. There is credible data out there published in medical journals. Let no one or a single source determine your opinion or view point. What you choose believe, do or not do is the 1st thing that will determine your health. Your mind must be made up by you and no one else.

I made up my mind that I would rid my body of this disease against all odds, against the recommendation of my regular family doctor as his view point like stefano10669, that herbs or other unproven treatments were ineffective. Had I listened, I’d be sitting here today with a viral load over 10 million or on some toxic and expensive pharmaceuticals with side effects.

I realized I also forgot to mention after taking all of these substances my cholesterol went from 293 down to 144! The side effect from these natural substances, a better diet and multivitamins were a healthier me – than I had ever been before.

Also the value of this experience of taking a more proactive regard to my health while proving such substances and vitamins actually work. I have gained better health, valuable knowledge and expanded view point of herbs and their scientific research and efficacy to help myself and others.

Its up you to decide. I have shared my experience and results.

If any one has any questions feel free to e-mail me personally on this sight.

Thanks,
SW

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Avatar_m_tn
i can understand yuor point of viwe but there is nothing scientificaly correct in 2010 knowledge of hbv in what you posted
hbvdna from millions to 250 makes no difference to severity of illness on the contrary can even mean worsenning going from immune tollerance with no damage to immune clearance with damage if hbsag is not removed or hbvdna und

the ways to understand liver damage and immune clearance are fibroscan for liver damage to be about 4.5kpa and inactive carrier but still cronic (chronic) with hbvdna und and alt below 19 for women, cured is only with hbsag negative and hbvdna und

i've been hbvdna und and normal alt for most of my life, and took honey and many other oriental things when i made hbe seroconversion by an alt flare at 1500 for about 3 months plus flactuating alt for other 3 months before the alt pick, then i cleared everything in 2 weeks with hbvdna und alt 17.... but i'd never say it was due to the oriental stuff or vitamins, it is just a norml phase of hbv.i was inactive carrier with be neg hbeab neg and i changed to hbe neg hbeab pos with of course hbsag still positive, although low because biopsy had no hbcag and no hbsag in the liver cells sample

it was a normal phase of hbv by the immune system which made hbvdna und and alt normal for years but that doesn t mean cure or less severe, infact now i have cirrhosis, now in 2010 we know hbv is very coplex and there are several things to consider not just an hbvdna which gets a little lower, on the contrary hbsag quantity is getting the most important parameter to check virus phase not hbvdna alone
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Avatar_m_tn
Chanca Piedra tea is phillantus family we have posted many times and also its potency on research but the potency is very little and a member of this forum worked in the chinese hospital were they made research and she said no body got results

the in vitro potency (not vivo) is reducing hbvdna about 3 logs, in you it probably made a shift from immune tollerant to immune cleareing as said above, in some it made even hbe seroconversion, i suggest to prove it but if you don t get hbvdna und and alt lower than 30 men and 19 women the result is not useful

be also careful that hbvdna is not the number of virions in your body, it just reflects virus duplication rate, the most reliable method to understand if you are inactive is:
hbsag lower than 500-1500iu/ml, hbvdna lower than 2000iu/ml, alt lower 30 and fibroscan with no fibrosis, unfortunately US is not updated in the most important tools hbsag quantititive and fibroscan so you can relay on hbvdna/alt only so i'd say hbvdna und and alt lower than 30

antivirals like entecavir have no toxicity, if they had regression of cirrhosis would be impossible taking a toxic drug
tenofovir has very little toxicity on 1% patients and the new formula wll have none

drugs focused on liver cannot be toxic otherwise fibrosis would nevere reverse, it is all another story as regards telbivudine, adefovir or lamivuidne which all worsen hbv and hepatitis by resistant mutants and telbivudine/adefovir have also toxicity
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Avatar_f_tn
Below are published medical journals regarding the study of the anti viral effects from Phyllanthus in the treatment of chronic hepatitis B.
in the Chinese hospital were they made research and “she” said no body got results may not have used the correct amount, type of plant or not long enough. Perhaps even all of the above.

“the in vitro potency (not vivo)” There are plenty of studies published regarding in human trials

“you it probably made a shift from immune tolerant to immune clearing as said above” It is a fact I will repeat to you that this is not the case.

“i suggest to prove it” No prob! I’m having my 3 tests results faxed as we speak. Tell me exactly what you are looking for and I will provide the stats. You mentioned ALT and HBDNA is there anything else?


“antivirals like entecavir/ drugs focused on liver cannot be toxic otherwise..” I am not debating any conventional treatments. My purpose is to testify my results to others like me looking to beat this on their own or even in conjunction with regular treatment.



Herbs of the genus Phyllanthus in the treatment of chronic hepatitis B: observations with three preparations from different geographic sites.
Wang M, Cheng H, Li Y, Meng L, Zhao G, Mai K.
Henan Institute of Medical Sciences, Henan Medical University, People's Republic of China.
Abstract
It has been suggested that herbs of the Phyllanthus family may have antiviral activity. We therefore tested the effects of three different Phyllanthus extracts on the serologic status of 123 patients with chronic hepatitis B. Eleven patients received an extract of Phyllanthus amarus (L) provided by S.P. Thyagarajan, Madras, India. Forty-two patients received Phyllanthus niruri (L), gathered from Hainan Province in China, and 35 patients received an extract of Phyllanthus urinaria (L), which had been gathered in Henan Province. Thirty-five control patients received no herbal therapy. The patients receiving Phyllanthus urinaria (L) were both more likely to lose detectable hepatitis B e-antigen from their serum and more likely to seroconvert hepatitis B e-antibody status from negative to positive than were patients given either of the other two preparations. No patient changed status with respect to hepatitis B s-antigen.
PMID: 7561442 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Antiviral Res. 2005 Sep;67(3):163-8.
A flavonoid from medicinal plants blocks hepatitis B virus-e antigen secretion in HBV-infected hepatocytes.
Shin MS, Kang EH, Lee YI.
Liver Cell Signal Transduction Laboratory, Bioscience Research Division, Korea Research Institute of Bioscience and Biotechnology, Taejon 305-606, Republic of Korea.
Abstract
A flavonoid molecule that showed a unique anti-HBV function was isolated from Phyllanthus urinaria. The molecular formula was determined as C14H6O8 based on FAM-MS analysis and the structure was determined by NMR. The identified flavonoid molecule, ellagic acid, showed unique anti-HBV functions. Ellagic acid did not inhibit either HBV polymerase activity, HBV replication or block HBsAg secretion. Rather, ellagic acid blocks effectively HBeAg secretion in HepG2 2.2.15 cells (IC50=0.07 microg/ml). Since HBeAg is involved in immune tolerance during HBV infection, ellagic acid, a newly identified functional anti-HBV compound, may be a new candidate therapeutic against immune tolerance in HBV-infected individuals.


Effect of an extract from Phyllanthus amarus on hepatitis B surface antigen gene expression in human hepatoma cells

Sheau-Farn Yehc, Chuang-Ye Hongb, d, Yu-Lun Huangc, Tsung-Yun Liua, Kong-Bung Chooa and Chen-Kung Choua
aDepartment of Medical Research, Veterans General Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan
bDepartment of Internal Medicine, Veterans General Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan
cInstitute of Biochemistry, National Yang-Ming Medical College, Taipei, Taiwan
dInstitute of Traditional Medicine, National Yang-Ming Medical College, Taipei, Taiwan
Received 10 August 1992;  
accepted 16 October 1992.  
Available online 12 November 2002.

Abstract
It has been suggested that Phyllanthus amarus may be helpful in the treatment of hepatitis B virus infection. We studied the effect of an aqueous extract of P. amarus on the cultured hepatoma cell line HepA2. This cell line had been transfected with tandemly arranged HBV DNA and continued to synthesize and secrete both HBsAg and HBeAg. Extract of P. amarus reversibly inhibited cellular proliferation and suppressed HBsAg production but not HBeAg production in HepA2 cells. We also found that P. amarus suppressed HBsAg gene expression at mRNA level in a time-dependent manner, and selectively abolished the HBsAg gene promoter driven CAT activity. Our results demonstrate that P. amarus contains some active components which can suppress the HBsAg gene expression in human hepatoma cells. Such suppression may contribute the antiviral activity of P. amarus in vivo.
Phyllanthus amarus down-regulates hepatitis B virus mRNA transcription and replication.
Lee CD, Ott M, Thyagarajan SP, Shafritz DA, Burk RD, Gupta S.
Marion Bessin Liver Research Center, Madras, India.
Abstract
The Phyllanthus amarus plant shows potential for treating hepatitis B virus. To define the mechanism of action of P. amarus, we used HepG2 2.2.15 cells, which support hepatitis B virus replication. P. amarus inhibited hepatitis B virus polymerase activity, decreased episomal hepatitis B virus DNA content and suppressed virus release into culture medium. To examine transcriptional control mechanisms, we used G26 hepatitis B virus transgenic mice, which produce serum HBsAg but neither HBcAg nor virion particles. When P. amarus was administered to transgenic mice, hepatic HBsAg mRNA levels decreased, indicating transcriptional or post-transcriptional down-regulation of the transgene. Increase in hepatitis B virus mRNA expression after stimulation of the glucocorticoid responsive element was also suppressed by P. amarus, suggesting involvement of the hepatitis B virus enhancer in this response. Disruption by P. amarus of hepatitis B virus polymerase activity, mRNA transcription and replication supports its role as an antiviral agent.
PMID: 9013081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Hepatitis (chronic viral hepatitis B virus)

Phyllanthus inhibits proliferation of the hepatitis B virus (HBV) by inhibiting replication of the virus' genetic material; it blocks DNA polymerase, the enzyme needed for the hepatitis B and C virus to reproduce.
Phyllanthus may have a positive effect on antiviral activity and liver biochemistry in chronic HBV infection.
On the other hand: conventional treatment with interferon-alpha* (IntronA®, Roferon-A®) is expensive and may have serious side effects.

* Interferon is used as a treatment for some types of cancer. These include cancer of the kidney, malignant melanoma, multiple myeloma, carcinoid tumous and some types of lymphoma and leukaemia. Interferon is also used to treat diseases other than cancer.

Dosage

Tincture: 1 - 4 ml / daily.
Infusion: 1 - 3 cups / day (1 - 2 teaspoons / cup)
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Avatar_m_tn
i am sorry if you got me wrong but we do know phillanthus amarus and we psoted about it in the past, it is ok to try it and very good if one can get hbvdna und and alt norml but it is very weak on most people, so it is good to say it worked on me but don t know for the others so that if hbvdna doesn t get und it is wasted time

in our alinia group most are chinese on traditional medicine too from chinese forum hbvhbv and very very weak results are obtained from phyllanthus and ocmatrine.
even them don t use traditional medicine or at least use both because results from phillanthus are in a very very small percentage

those articles are very old for all the discoveries made in this filed, from 2005 to 2010 everything has changed and both interferon is not used anymore because results very little and also drugs are changed very much and from indian generics we get them very cheap, now it is a matter of combo according to hbv phase and everything can be used, even interferon in the rare cases of low hbsag to eradicate virus
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Avatar_f_tn
I have seen iot posted and am simply a voice explaining it worked!

I drank it all the time! I made the tea very dark.

I fell in love the 1st time with a guy who I thought would leave me if I did not get rid of this.

I made the tea  very strong (I could not see through it it was like the color of weak brown coffee and some of the tiny tid-bits would make it past the filter and. I NEVER missed a dosage for those 1st 2 weeks.

1st thing in the morning, At lunch time at work, 1st thing when I got home from work, a glass glass after dinner  and another before bed at 11.

The minimum was Morning, afternoon around 5 and just before bed.

I would drink it an remember the Blumburg published journal where chronic cases were cleared after three months.

At that time I was not consistent with my vitamins but generally I took something off and on that time even though I had not understood the viral reducing effects of at least 300 micro grams of selenium and additional antioxidant effects of 400 IU of vitamin E.


I’m going to go check the fax machine….
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Avatar_f_tn
update, "I NEVER missed a dosage for those 1st 2 weeks"

meant months.

Nothing on the fax machine : (

I'll keep looking
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Avatar_m_tn
"The virus uses the selenium mineral while in your liver to power its reproductive ability. "
So you recommend taking 200mcg selenium daily but with the increased selenium intake do you think you are helping the virus to reproduce faster too?
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Avatar_f_tn
If it worked this good for me, maybe there is some one else out there it can work for, perhaps with my recommended method, frequency and strength it will work for others .

The results are dramatic! From Jan 09 to Mar 09 to go from over 10 Million down to 300 thousand viral load. What more proof do you need with a 97% reduction in VL?

If there is a possibility that something may work, but did not, I never felt like it was a waste even if I paid alot of money for it. I am not rich at all! Things that did not work I gladly scratched off the list knowing I did my best and tried.

What did not Work: Extra Virgin coconut oil. Too hard to eat as its gross to eat oil. Capsules are ok but I wanted quick results. There was no dramatic decrease in VL the time period I was taking this.

Inconclusive: Parasite cleans: I read that most people some form of parasite from Tape worms to small liver fluke parasites that are like virus factories. Eliminating viruses alone may reduce it from your body but not completely if you have parasites. Again human parasites are disgusting yes, but also common.

I did a cleanse taking Black Walnut, Wormwood and Clove nothing came reduction did happen but I was still taking the Chanca Piedra tea. I had a test the same week and made used the reccamended dosage for the 3 and there were no elevated liver ensyms.

Perhaps due to the liver protectant of the tea and Alpha Lipoic acid

I hear something on the fax machine....
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Avatar_m_tn
>the only alternative i see is try nitazoxanide first for 6-12 months at 1,5 or 2g daily dose
>and see if it lowers hbsag and hbvdna, if you don t see any improvement add tenofovir

>at least nitazoxanide is not a one way and you can stop it plus it might eradicate hbsag

Two reasons I hesitate to start ntz right now:

1) no hbsag quantitative to baseline its effectiveness
2) use of ntz in hbv is still not very conclusive. e.g. side effects. Even though there is no side effects so far, but no body has taken the drugs for ~5 years. It is hard to compare side effects with anti-virals.

Since for over 20 yrs, my liver got very minimum damage, it could be two reasons: 1) most of the time hbv dna was UND and ALT normal, 2) I am not susceptible to liver damage (maybe by gene). This time hbv dna flares up, either a regular also happened in the past and not a big deal, or it is serious due to my age. Nobody knows what had happened in the past and what will happen in the future. So I have to live with statistics and the most current guidelines for the disease.

If ntz does eradicate hbv as future probably proves, I can always start later and get rid of hbsag. Then taking tdf is not a big deal except wasting some money (let along my insurance will get some of the bills) to buy insurance.

To shellywinters: thanks for your suggestions. If some of your recommendation are really useful (as controversies exist), I can take them in the same time after hbv dna UND as suggested by stefano. So I will not miss anything, but wasting some money probably not too much if the cure is working.

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Avatar_f_tn
thats a good question "So you recommend taking 200mcg selenium daily but with the increased selenium intake do you think you are helping the virus to reproduce faster too? "

No, it acutallt takes the glutathione in your liver. Selenium is an antioxident and conversted into glutathione. Once delpeated, health declines...

Selenium. The protective role of selenium against HBV was reported in 1997 in the journal Biological Trace Element Research. The study reported that, in areas of China with high rates of hepatitis B and primary liver cancer, high levels of dietary selenium reduced the incidence of liver cancer and hepatitis B infection. In a 4-year trial of 130,471 people, those who were given selenium-spiked table salt showed a 35.1 percent reduction in primary liver cancer, compared with the group who received salt without selenium. In the same journal report, another clinical study of 226 people who tested positive for hepatitis B showed that taking a 200-mcg tablet a day of selenium reduced the incidence of primary liver cancer to zero. Upon cessation of selenium supplementation, the incidence of primary liver cancer began to rise. The study seems to indicate that taking selenium on a continuous basis is beneficial to people who have viral hepatitis (Yu SY et al 1997).
These human trials have been duplicated in animal studies. The animal studies showed that selenium supplementation reduced hepatitis B infection by 77.2 percent and precancerous liver lesions by 75.8 percent.
Another study in the Journal of Trace Elements and Medical Biology reported the role of trace minerals in diseases such as liver disease and hepatitis. The report indicates that, while there is still some debate regarding the specific role of trace minerals, minerals such as selenium and zinc are of benefit to those who have diseases such as hepatitis (Loguercio C et al 1997).
A 3-year study of 20,847 people investigated whether supplementation with sodium selenite could prevent hepatitis B. The researchers concluded that: "The incidence of virus hepatitis infection in the test population was significantly lower than that of controls provided with no selenium" (Yu SY et al 1989).

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Avatar_m_tn
no body has taken the drugs for ~5 years

i have checked everything...aids patients has taken it continuatively for over 5 years without any sides, they can t clear infections by immune system so they had to take ntz continuatively.

selenium has had big trials on thousands of people, on the range 130-150 blood levels it boosts immune system on other ranges decreases it.it doesn t clear hbv but decreased liver cancer percentages
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Avatar_m_tn
If there are data to rule out side effects, it is great. I plan to add ntz after hbv dna becomes und. I just don't feel comfortable to use another drug without my doctor's consent before hbv dna gets suppressed.

I just read an  article in chinese, showing 22% drug induced liver problems in China were caused by use of chinese herb medcines. So we should be very careful in using them.
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Avatar_m_tn

ntz is not active on hbvdna but on hbsag, you can get hbvdna und only when hbsag is complitley or almost complitely suppressed (it is just like in acute hbv), this might take even more than 1 year

the combo is because tenofovir makes hbvdna und in a couple of months and ntz keeps suppressing hbsag which cannot be suppressed by tenofovir

you might also try phyllanthus+ntz and see if there is any result on hbvdna, today i told me sister and she will try it 1-2 months before choosing tenofovir or interferon

showing 22% drug induced liver problems by herbs
that's the problem with the soruses there, i guess food.com is in US and should be reliable although herbs are taken from asia for sure.anyway if you check carefully all liver panel tests (all tests not just alt because there is toxic liver damage with normal alt)
of coruse all those like me with cirrhosis or severe f3 fibrosis must avoid herbs, it is too dangerous
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Avatar_m_tn

i dont remember your hbvdna.......ntz can lower 2-3 logs not more from our little experience, of course we have reached this at about 6 months, we don t know at one year, one thing is certain if there is no hbsg decrease by 3 months it doesn t work (on 2g ntz dose).
the trials we found by romark showed results hbsag/hbvdna neg at 1 year in hbe neg



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Avatar_m_tn
Thank you two very much for the discussions!

Here is my plan:

1) take tenofovir
2) adopt more healthy life style, including exercises.
3) drink phyllanthus tea

It looks to me that phyllanthus tea doesn't have toxin. It is also "stone breaker", which is great since I have kidney stones. One stone will kill two birds. When I read some of the research, it sounds to me that phyllanthus acts on hbsag. Am I right?

I have scheduled a check in Jan, 2012 since my doctor doesn't have concerns with kidney problems. If tenofovir will bring my hbv dna (~40,000 copies/ml) to UND, I will start to add ntz. Hopefully the current pioneer of ntz will provide more conclusive data at that time (would be ~ 9 months).

Shellywinters: Please provide more details of the dosage of the tea. You have mentioned 2 tsp. Did you measure it with standard tsp or just regular 2 tea spoons. Did you drink two tsp for each drink or a whole day? I am curious whether the way of making the tea (~ 4 hrs) matters. When I check phyllanthus online, there are some capsules (~400mg), if they are raw and not extract, it would too little. Stefano: do you remember the dosage of the chinese trial you mentioned?

Stefano: I know that chinese herb medicine in China may have quality issues, but I think the most important is that most of chinese herb medicines are pre-processed with processes I am not familiar with. The processing may add toxic stuffs in.
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Avatar_f_tn
I would also say your 4th plan is to take a multivitamin daily that has high levels of vitamin D, E and Selenium. E is an antioxidant. My aunt swears that she got rid of HBV with just 1 daily vitamin E cap of at least 400 IU. It took her 8 though.

Vitamin D also powers your immune system. More people get sick in the winter months due to less sun exposure.  We naturally get vitamin D from sun exposure. IF you don’t get out much in the sun you should consider at least 2,000 IU day of Vitamin D. Just so you know our body makes from 50,000 IU to 100,000 IU of natural Vitamin D in one day of at least 3 or 4 hours of sun exposure.

two heaping tea spoons of the Chanca Piedra. After a while I did not need the tea spoon I knew how much to put in.  It does not have to be exact, in a regular tea pot. Simmer on very low heat. Make the tea as dark as you can.

I have not tried the capsules and I can not tell you if they are more or less effective.

I do think that the more frequent you drink the tea matters. While it is on you it is working and while not, its isnt. Made sense to me to dring it frequently to cut down on viral replication.


Antioxidant Therapy. As with other diseases related to inflammation and tissue damage, oxidative stress is a key mediator that continues and magnifies the ongoing disease process. The livers of people who have hepatitis show reduced levels of antioxidants, which are consumed in an effort to protect the liver. According to a report in the June 1998 issue of the Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology, investigators showed that nutritional antioxidants are potential therapeutic agents for diseases such as hepatitis. Other investigators reported at the same time that oxidative stress (free-radical damage) is often seen in hepatitis B and may contribute to the emergence of hepatocellular carcinoma, seen in patients after years of chronic liver inflammation. The study stated that antioxidants that down-regulate oxidative damage may be a useful complement to specific antiviral drugs in the therapy of viral diseases.
In a related study, vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) was reported in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study to be a successful adjunct approach when combined with alpha-interferon therapy in the treatment of hepatitis because of its strong antioxidant activity (von Herbay A et al 1997).
Selenium. The protective role of selenium against HBV was reported in 1997 in the journal Biological Trace Element Research. The study reported that, in areas of China with high rates of hepatitis B and primary liver cancer, high levels of dietary selenium reduced the incidence of liver cancer and hepatitis B infection. In a 4-year trial of 130,471 people, those who were given selenium-spiked table salt showed a 35.1 percent reduction in primary liver cancer, compared with the group who received salt without selenium. In the same journal report, another clinical study of 226 people who tested positive for hepatitis B showed that taking a 200-mcg tablet a day of selenium reduced the incidence of primary liver cancer to zero. Upon cessation of selenium supplementation, the incidence of primary liver cancer began to rise. The study seems to indicate that taking selenium on a continuous basis is beneficial to people who have viral hepatitis (Yu SY et al 1997).
These human trials have been duplicated in animal studies. The animal studies showed that selenium supplementation reduced hepatitis B infection by 77.2 percent and precancerous liver lesions by 75.8 percent.
Another study in the Journal of Trace Elements and Medical Biology reported the role of trace minerals in diseases such as liver disease and hepatitis. The report indicates that, while there is still some debate regarding the specific role of trace minerals, minerals such as selenium and zinc are of benefit to those who have diseases such as hepatitis (Loguercio C et al 1997).
A 3-year study of 20,847 people investigated whether supplementation with sodium selenite could prevent hepatitis B. The researchers concluded that: "The incidence of virus hepatitis infection in the test population was significantly lower than that of controls provided with no selenium" (Yu SY et al 1989).
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Avatar_f_tn


I STRONGLY recommend taking GNS brand of vitamins called Mega Men sport
It has Alpha Lipoic Acid that protects the liver from damage. (Please google Alpha Lipoic Acid regarding liver health – good stuff!)

It has 200 micro grams of Selenium and Vitamin D as mentioned in my prior post.
It does not have the high levels of vitamin E though but the Selenium is much more valuable as it alone can reduce viral loads. (google Selenium, Glutathione and the reduction of VL for HBV and other viruses)




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1292648_tn?1303161853
Hi I have reed about phyllanthus amarus before and I can not find thet in the stores is there another name for it ?can you plise tell me where I can get thet is the US.?
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the message. Can you confirm that you took 2 tsp per day and drink the one brew for the whole day or 2 tsp each brew and drink 3-4 brews?

I am already taking multivitamins every day. The vitamins I am taking includes:

Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) 1800 IU
Vitamin E (d-alpha Tocopheryl Succinate) 500 IU
Selenium (Selenomethionine, Amino Acid Chelate) 200 mcg
Zinc (Citrate) 20 mg

As to hbsag loss, there is 1% hbver who lose hbsag per year. Vitamins may help the general health, but may not play decisive role in hbsag eradication, as research has pointed out. I am very realistic in this aspect. I knew lipoic acid and took it for a while with Acetyl L-carnitine for weight loss, but I found out that adjusting diet is even effective. I have lost 10 lbs over 3-4 months. I also take fish oil for omega-3.
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Avatar_f_tn






Hi there,

Wow, those look like great vitamins! With those levels the best thing about what they do is protect your liver from free radical damage. They aid your immune system even if it isn’t eliminating the HBV, it is doing its job with other invaders.

The selenium and vitamin D have been documented to reduce risk of cancers which is great news for us who have HBV.

The selenium I have read may actually reduce virus levels but the dosage is 400 micrograms daily and it has to be the plant based selenium like Selenomax.

The viruses replicate, because their genetic codes include a gene that is virtually identical to that of the human enzyme glutathione peroxidase, they rob their hosts of selenium thus perpetuating their environment to thrive. Our bodies use selenium to power the immune system and as an antioxidant.  We can not efficiently defend ourselves with depleted levels. Increased levels increased strength of the immune system. It may not be anti viral, but virus level drop because the liver is less of a friendly environment to replicate for all viruses.

The research I have come across regarding Vitamin D, E and Selenium make a multivitamin a valuable addition to any regimen for those who are going through HBV acute or chronic infection.


My Aunt claims that it was Vitamin E (IU 400) alone every day for 8 years that lowered her virus levels when she was in her 30's. She said her levels started to drop when she started using it. She no longer has HBV and took nothing else. Another Aunt took Interferon and was seriously ill for 5 months but is Hep B free now.

My mother does not have it any more but I don’t know how she and my brother cleared it. It sounds silly but they both use to drink allot. Its just me my sister and one other aunt now. We were all born with it. None of us have ever had elevated liver enzymes. Our bodies think its just part of our system.

The 2 spoon full are for a medium tea pot size for the Chanca Piedra Tea. Its about 4 big glasses or 5 small glasses full for each tea pot. Each tea pot is daily. I bought the glass tea pot at create and barrel. It has a tea diffuser and put the loose tea right in. You can buy the glass under holder, designed for putting tea candles in to keep the tea warm/hot. I microwaved the water till boiling then sat it over the 2 tea candles and pressed the tea frequently to release its substance. Repeatedly this made it much darker than just boiling it.


I see in my last post the last sentence looks like I am referring to multivitamins interfering with the viral replicating process but I meant the tea does. I think I cut that sentence and pasted in wrong from MS word.

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Avatar_m_tn
It sounds to me that there several people who had lost their hbsag by themselves. This may be due to the genetic factor because the hbsag seroconversion rate is so high within your direct relatives compared to general public of 1%. So you may have some special genetic support to fight the virus but other people may not have.
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Avatar_f_tn
True however no one ever had such a dramatic viral drop as I had while confirmed chronic condition. That ws my own doing and I am so glad I can post here my protocols.

I think most people here get in and then have it for 5 10, 20 years or so. We all have it from birth. The ones that cleared it have it for at least 25 years while in mothers womb. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?
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I deleted 2 posts with suggestive to external links.  Please don't post any links to outside miracle cures or sales site.

Those who are interested in vitamins to support their health is encouraged to do research and talk to their own doctors.  

As I have mentioned before, their are herbal cures for all kind of chronic diseases for sale in various parts of NYC and they have all sorts of studies, charts, doctors to back it all up.  But the truth these chronic diseases are still here.

If any of you see a post supporting an external site, please note or message me.  
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Avatar_m_tn

since it was said i have never seen such a big drop of hbvdna.........

this is the biggest hbvdna drop reported in our forum

Combo Treatment: Baraclude + Viread (results)
by hepbinme, Apr 30, 2009 02:10AM
Tags: viread, treatments, combo, baraclude, rescue therapy
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum -- I just found the thread through Google by searching Viread + Baraclude. My apologies if I ask a few stupid questions, I'm still learning a lot about HepB. =]

I want to start off by saying that I have been taking both Baraclude + Viread as part of a study in November. I will try to be specific as possible, but all my paperwork and results are back at home since I'm away for college. I'm a 23 year old Asian male and found out I had chronic HepB.

---------------------------------------------------DATA---------------------------------------------------
• 1st blood results were (taken in 07/18/2008). NOT ON TREATMENT
HEPATITIS B VIRAL DNA, QUANT PCR             1,630,000,000 H    <160 copies/mL

• 2nd blood results were (taken in 08/19/2008). NOT ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      1,020,000,000 H     <160 copies/mL
                                                *some fluctuation in numbers, but still very high

         ♦I started the combo drugs sometime in November with the high DNA count above, if not more.

• 3rd blood results were (taken in December 2008): ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      300,000 H     <160 copies/mL

• 4th blood results were (taken in January 2009): ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      801 H    <160 copies/mL

• 5th blood results were (taken in April 2009): ON TREATMENT
HEP B VIRAL DNA QT                                      201 H     <160 copies/mL

My doctor said the goal is to get my HepBeAG to turn negative as it is the engine behind the whole process, and the viral count to Zero.

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Avatar_m_tn
but those who have hbv knowledge know that hbvdna drop from millions to undetactable happens normally on all hbv cronic (chronic) since hbv cronic (chronic) is made of periods with active virus replication and inactive virus replication for the most, rarely continuous high replication

also hbvdna is not the virus itself but just an idea of replication in the cells.
hbsag quantity and cccdna quantity can give an idea of the quantity of the virus in the liver.hbvdna can be totally und while the liver is full of virus

on the contrary a low or undetactable hbvdna reflects low replication and low liver damage with normal alt, this flactuating hbvdna allows liver regeneration (if hbvdna is continuatively in the millions while there is immune response we will get to cirrhosis very fast) and a long life to us (and virus too unfortunately)
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Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for the explanation. Everybody wants to get rid of the virus so seeking for a cure or a hope of cure is natural. But I quickly realized that only statistics that matters. An individual experience does not provide much for another person. I understand your kindness of hoping other hbvers not to detour from the most scientific approach, even though there is no cure for now. I have been on tdf several days already. My whole intention for some of the supplement ideas is to enhance the general health or something good to liver, but not anything potentially harmful to liver.

Since I have mishandled my condition over the past 20 years, I will make mistakes again. Fortunately and luckily I turns out to be OK. I don't have data of my past years, but I am sure that my general health has improved over the years, mainly due to less stress and better life style. I don't believe my liver damage was minimum all the time in the past, since I have pre-core mutation, so the virus replication was not possible to be kept UND. I believe my liver must have recovered from damage since my general health improved. I remembered that my bleeding stopped much slower than today. For example, if I had to draw blood for a test, it took a while to press to stop bleeding in the past. Now it take much less time. It sounds to me that even without anti-virals, my own immune system could have suppress the viral activity and regenerated the liver damage. That is why I am looking for ways to improve my general health.
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Avatar_m_tn

healthy life style is the minimum base where to start, i am worried about what you said about the bleeding, if liver is not in advanced cirrhosis you should have about same time for bleeding to recover, have you ever checked platlets, PT and fibroscan or biopsy?longer time when bleeding might due to other causes but if platlets are low you are sure bleeding is slower and advanced fibrosis is present

one of the first signs of severe fibrosis/cirrhosis is a lowering in platlets from baseline values made yearly.
in my case the only sign that made me very worried was platlets in the lower normal range 148 when alt was about 600 before starting entecavir, i though this might be cirrhosis...unfortunately i discovered about the fibroscan machine too late and it confirmed cirrhosis months later
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Avatar_m_tn
I don't have any bleeding problem right now. My platelet count is normal. In the past, I had bleeding issue, but not bleeding for no reason. Just it stopped slower than it would right now if there is bleeding. So my guess is that my liver condition in the past was not as good as in today. My September biopsy is G0-1F0. I might have recovered from some liver damage in the past to F0 by myself without drug intervention.
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Avatar_m_tn

check your fibrosis, it is not possible to know it without fibroscan or biopsy, if it is sevre fibrosis it takes 3-6 years of fully hbvdna und and low alt, in my cirrhosis situation i had it low normal and now fully normal but cirrhosis is still there

when i suggest i am on the "be extra carefull", maybe sometimes more than needed, but i do that because of what happened to me, that's to say without fibroscan or biopsy cirrhosis/severe fibrosis is absolutely silent to doctors and all other tests too

as to fibroscan readings they can overstimate f2-f3 because of inflamation (inflammation) but never return a lower result than real while biopsy can do this always, making many readings you get a very good result close to real quantity of fibrosis.it is not accurate in fat people, abnormal alt more than 200

in US they didn t start even the trials which are not needed since machine is routine in the rest of the world especially europe but i think it is just a market issue because it is a european product, infact an american company is starting fibroscan production called echosens, this explains all the trick, and FDA is getting ready fo its approval (what a coincidence with about 6 years delay...) if it was not reliable they'd never think about to copy it in US much easier to buy it from main producers in france
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