Food based multivitamins

[cam4930]

I have been taking certain food based multivitamins (Rainbow Men Just One). Is it safe? There is 100% vitamin A, but no iron. Does that much of Vita A  plus dietary intake of vit A result in too much?

I also usually eat a lot of nuts (almond, cashew, peanuts). Will I have problem of iron overload?

Thanks!

[stef2011]

vitamin are useless for hbv but may improve general health if:
not chemical vitamins but from foods
vitamin A is toxic only betacarotene which is transformed into vitamin A by the liver is safe at any dose

check the link for substances that can help reduce liver fibrosis and improve liver function
http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Hepatitis/HepResearcher-doctor-on-various-topics/show/38?cid=153

[cam4930]

Thanks for your information. You are a model for all hbvers in terms of gaining knowledge, treatment and management of hbv. I really appreciate your very informative posts.

I am taking multivitamins for general health, but am concerned with their toxicity to liver. It seems to me that the weakness of immune system to hbv doesn't compromise its capability of fighting other diseases. I am generally health, seldom get sick for common causes like flu, etc, but am still not be able to fight off hbv. So for those people who self hbsag seroconverted, there must be something special that re-activate their capability to get rid of hbv. If it is general health, then a life style may help. I hope some research should be done in this direction and find a cure.

I will discuss my case with my doctor the coming Monday. Treatment is definitely the most important topic. What do you recommend in my case:

hbeag -
hbeab +
genotype B, aisan, 42 yo
precore mutant, but not BCP mutant
hbv dna ~40,000 copies/ml
AST/ALT 22/32
not sure about live biopsy details, but no cirrhosis as doctor told me. I will see the results at my appointment

Thanks!

[stef2011]

it is a mixture of hbv mutations probably and immune system a little more active because immune system is mainly regulated and suppressed by hbv to make persistent infection

tenofovir is the best and most potent drug i'd go for it, it might have sides on less than 1% patients with kidneys but since a new formulation 4.5 folds more potent without toxicity will be available soon there is no worries about sides in the long period

combo with nitazoxanide because it might make hbsag negative

[cam4930]

Thanks for your suggestion. I have a bit concern with my kidney, since I have kidney stones. Other than that, no kidney problem is found.

As you have mentioned in other posts, ntz is available in US, but some member in the forum mentioned the needs for prescription. Can you recommend another RELIABLE source to obtain the drug? Also unfortunately, it is hard to get hbsag quantitative tests. Is it any other method to determine the effectiveness of the drug?

[stef2011]

Other than that, no kidney problem is found.
monitor creatinine and gfr by 24hrs urine test monthly, at begining check creatinine every week and after every month

if you are in florida the member of this forum can suggest the doctor who prescribed, unfortunately ony hbsag quantitative can tell, you might also try other tests but you have to ask the lab if it is possible to use always the same diluition 1:1000 so that you can understand if it declines although not the quantity

i have send a message with the canadian pharmacy i use

[cam4930]

I have received your message. Thanks. I will make sure I can get some way to baseline hbsag, otherwise I would wait to see great progress of the first batch pioneer of taking ntz.

Back to nutrition, what are dosages of vitamin D, E and selenium for hbvers? I remember you have recommend dosages, but couldn't find it any more. Are you trying the antifibrotic compounds, like PPC? What dosage is recommended? For those PPC I can find, most of them are 900mg/tablet. Is it too much? Thanks.

[stef2011]

not yet because it might interfere with antivirals or ntz, just eating bluberries daily, coffee, green tea, omega3 and some cocao

you will find doses on HR post or google "hepatitis technology fibroscan" for the best liver antifibrotics supplements

[cam4930]

>not yet because it might interfere with antivirals or ntz, just eating bluberries daily, coffee, >green tea, omega3 and some cocao

Will vitamins interfere with anti-viral drugs? or only those antifibrotics?

I have seen my doctor. The live biopsy results are:
inflammation: 0-1
fibrosis: 0

The doctor has recommended and prescribe treatment with TDF, due to my age, being 40+ yo asian male. Considering anti-virals is one-way decision, do you have a second thought? I am asking not because I don't want to take tdf, but looking for any better options.

Thanks

[stef2011]

forgot to mention melatonin, soia and vitamin d by little sun exposure

soia, omega3 and cocao help me also to keep ldl cholesterol low and hdl cholesterol high, i had ldl little high and hdl low before using these

Will vitamins interfere with anti-viral drugs? or only those antifibrotics?
difficult to say and since we don t know it is better to take antivirals until hbvdna is und and after this add antifibrotic and vitamins

inflammation: 0-1
fibrosis: 0
you have no cirrhosis risk, mainly inactive carrier, only a little hgher liver cancer risk since genotype B, hbvdna 4log, precore mutant

prescribe treatment with TDF, due to my age, being 40+ yo........
your doctor is right because at your age you have higher liver cancer risk, no other risks, tenofovir is the best choice and in a couple of years we will have CMX157 (hexadecyloxypropyl tenofovir) which is more potent with no toxicity
the only alternative i see is try nitazoxanide first for 6-12 months at 1,5 or 2g daily dose and see if it lowers hbsag and hbvdna, if you don t see any improvement add tenofovir

at least nitazoxanide is not a one way and you can stop it plus it might eradicate hbsag

[shellywinters]

Hi there,

Multivitamins are extremely valuable against HB. The virus uses the selenium mineral while in your liver to power its reproductive ability. Your own immune system requires selenium to convert to glutathione for the support of your own immune system and energy. The virus takes and depletes your selenium levels. Vitamin A and E are antioxidants and prevent oxidative stress that with HB can lead to damage. Vitamin D will boost your immune system as well. More people become sick with colds and flu’s in winter as the sun rays are at their weakest. Our bodies converts sun light to Vitamin D and in the winter time there is less sun thus less Vitamin D. Getting a cold or a Flu? You’d be better off increasing your Vitamin D rather than the C every one runs for and still gets sick.

You may want to look into Alpha Lipoic Acid to reveres fibrosis and protect the liver against damage, Chanca Piedra to reduce viral load naturally, Astragalus to stimulate the bodies own interferon response, green tea or Olive leaf extract as an additional option for anti viral protection. To help keep the liver clean and promote better sleep and strengthen the thymus, the producer of T-cells, L-Ornithine just before bed. Miatake and Shiitake mushrooms as anti viral by way of interferon activators.

I tried all of the above and reduce my VL from well over 10 Million to just 252 in a year and a half WITH OUT any pharmaceuticals

I was able to find published medical journals of all of the above regarding studies showing the efficacy of these substances. I also found a lot of data showing that the above substances were NOT proven or that more research was needed.

I chose to go with the substances that I could find multiple sources of the same results and kept in mind that natural effective treatments are a direct threat to the revenue of pharmaceuticals and motive to publish negative or inconclusive reports of the same substances I found published to be effective were suspect.

[shellywinters]

correction to my last post.

The very last sentence the word effective should be ineffective!

Or to sum it up, all that stuff I tried works!

[shellywinters]

what worked the best?

Chanca Piedra tea, made stron 3 glasses a day sweeten with real surgar or honey

Selenium 200 micro grams a day

Multi Vitamin/Mineral with increased Vitamin D and E

Astragalus 2, 2 times a day

Alpha Lipoic Acid 2, 2 times a day

[stef2011]

i am sorry but your posts are absolutely scam or wrong, antivirals do little to the virus, vitamins absolutely nothing to the virus

sorry but we have already seen studies and trials posted here about vitamins, they are useless for hbv and good only from diet and only when there is deficency.
vitamins are not good and can be toxic too and worsen health if there is not a deficency

[shellywinters]

You can call it a scam but the scientific published medical research journals from the US, Germany and Japan proves otherwise. My viral loads prove otherwise as well. I have seen 3 specialist and they are all amazed that a chronic HB person with out meds have nearly cleared this.

Sammy Saab the best liver specialist in the country at UCLA was impressed at my latest low viral count. The first count was over 10 Million and the last only 252.

stefano170669
I never ask any one to take my word for it. Every one must research anything they put into their bodies. That is what lead and will lead many to this very site.

To all that research things and have come across these postings, continue your research. There is credible data out there published in medical journals. Let no one or a single source determine your opinion or view point. What you choose believe, do or not do is the 1st thing that will determine your health. Your mind must be made up by you and no one else.

I made up my mind that I would rid my body of this disease against all odds, against the recommendation of my regular family doctor as his view point like stefano10669, that herbs or other unproven treatments were ineffective. Had I listened, I’d be sitting here today with a viral load over 10 million or on some toxic and expensive pharmaceuticals with side effects.

I realized I also forgot to mention after taking all of these substances my cholesterol went from 293 down to 144! The side effect from these natural substances, a better diet and multivitamins were a healthier me – than I had ever been before.

Also the value of this experience of taking a more proactive regard to my health while proving such substances and vitamins actually work. I have gained better health, valuable knowledge and expanded view point of herbs and their scientific research and efficacy to help myself and others.

Its up you to decide. I have shared my experience and results.

If any one has any questions feel free to e-mail me personally on this sight.

Thanks,
SW

[stef2011]

i can understand yuor point of viwe but there is nothing scientificaly correct in 2010 knowledge of hbv in what you posted
hbvdna from millions to 250 makes no difference to severity of illness on the contrary can even mean worsenning going from immune tollerance with no damage to immune clearance with damage if hbsag is not removed or hbvdna und

the ways to understand liver damage and immune clearance are fibroscan for liver damage to be about 4.5kpa and inactive carrier but still cronic with hbvdna und and alt below 19 for women, cured is only with hbsag negative and hbvdna und

i've been hbvdna und and normal alt for most of my life, and took honey and many other oriental things when i made hbe seroconversion by an alt flare at 1500 for about 3 months plus flactuating alt for other 3 months before the alt pick, then i cleared everything in 2 weeks with hbvdna und alt 17.... but i'd never say it was due to the oriental stuff or vitamins, it is just a norml phase of hbv.i was inactive carrier with be neg hbeab neg and i changed to hbe neg hbeab pos with of course hbsag still positive, although low because biopsy had no hbcag and no hbsag in the liver cells sample

it was a normal phase of hbv by the immune system which made hbvdna und and alt normal for years but that doesn t mean cure or less severe, infact now i have cirrhosis, now in 2010 we know hbv is very coplex and there are several things to consider not just an hbvdna which gets a little lower, on the contrary hbsag quantity is getting the most important parameter to check virus phase not hbvdna alone

[stef2011]

Chanca Piedra tea is phillantus family we have posted many times and also its potency on research but the potency is very little and a member of this forum worked in the chinese hospital were they made research and she said no body got results

the in vitro potency (not vivo) is reducing hbvdna about 3 logs, in you it probably made a shift from immune tollerant to immune cleareing as said above, in some it made even hbe seroconversion, i suggest to prove it but if you don t get hbvdna und and alt lower than 30 men and 19 women the result is not useful

be also careful that hbvdna is not the number of virions in your body, it just reflects virus duplication rate, the most reliable method to understand if you are inactive is:
hbsag lower than 500-1500iu/ml, hbvdna lower than 2000iu/ml, alt lower 30 and fibroscan with no fibrosis, unfortunately US is not updated in the most important tools hbsag quantititive and fibroscan so you can relay on hbvdna/alt only so i'd say hbvdna und and alt lower than 30

antivirals like entecavir have no toxicity, if they had regression of cirrhosis would be impossible taking a toxic drug
tenofovir has very little toxicity on 1% patients and the new formula wll have none

drugs focused on liver cannot be toxic otherwise fibrosis would nevere reverse, it is all another story as regards telbivudine, adefovir or lamivuidne which all worsen hbv and hepatitis by resistant mutants and telbivudine/adefovir have also toxicity

[shellywinters]

Below are published medical journals regarding the study of the anti viral effects from Phyllanthus in the treatment of chronic hepatitis B.
in the Chinese hospital were they made research and “she” said no body got results may not have used the correct amount, type of plant or not long enough. Perhaps even all of the above.

“the in vitro potency (not vivo)” There are plenty of studies published regarding in human trials

“you it probably made a shift from immune tolerant to immune clearing as said above” It is a fact I will repeat to you that this is not the case.

“i suggest to prove it” No prob! I’m having my 3 tests results faxed as we speak. Tell me exactly what you are looking for and I will provide the stats. You mentioned ALT and HBDNA is there anything else?


“antivirals like entecavir/ drugs focused on liver cannot be toxic otherwise..” I am not debating any conventional treatments. My purpose is to testify my results to others like me looking to beat this on their own or even in conjunction with regular treatment.



Herbs of the genus Phyllanthus in the treatment of chronic hepatitis B: observations with three preparations from different geographic sites.
Wang M, Cheng H, Li Y, Meng L, Zhao G, Mai K.
Henan Institute of Medical Sciences, Henan Medical University, People's Republic of China.
Abstract
It has been suggested that herbs of the Phyllanthus family may have antiviral activity. We therefore tested the effects of three different Phyllanthus extracts on the serologic status of 123 patients with chronic hepatitis B. Eleven patients received an extract of Phyllanthus amarus (L) provided by S.P. Thyagarajan, Madras, India. Forty-two patients received Phyllanthus niruri (L), gathered from Hainan Province in China, and 35 patients received an extract of Phyllanthus urinaria (L), which had been gathered in Henan Province. Thirty-five control patients received no herbal therapy. The patients receiving Phyllanthus urinaria (L) were both more likely to lose detectable hepatitis B e-antigen from their serum and more likely to seroconvert hepatitis B e-antibody status from negative to positive than were patients given either of the other two preparations. No patient changed status with respect to hepatitis B s-antigen.
PMID: 7561442 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Antiviral Res. 2005 Sep;67(3):163-8.
A flavonoid from medicinal plants blocks hepatitis B virus-e antigen secretion in HBV-infected hepatocytes.
Shin MS, Kang EH, Lee YI.
Liver Cell Signal Transduction Laboratory, Bioscience Research Division, Korea Research Institute of Bioscience and Biotechnology, Taejon 305-606, Republic of Korea.
Abstract
A flavonoid molecule that showed a unique anti-HBV function was isolated from Phyllanthus urinaria. The molecular formula was determined as C14H6O8 based on FAM-MS analysis and the structure was determined by NMR. The identified flavonoid molecule, ellagic acid, showed unique anti-HBV functions. Ellagic acid did not inhibit either HBV polymerase activity, HBV replication or block HBsAg secretion. Rather, ellagic acid blocks effectively HBeAg secretion in HepG2 2.2.15 cells (IC50=0.07 microg/ml). Since HBeAg is involved in immune tolerance during HBV infection, ellagic acid, a newly identified functional anti-HBV compound, may be a new candidate therapeutic against immune tolerance in HBV-infected individuals.


Effect of an extract from Phyllanthus amarus on hepatitis B surface antigen gene expression in human hepatoma cells

Sheau-Farn Yehc, Chuang-Ye Hongb, d, Yu-Lun Huangc, Tsung-Yun Liua, Kong-Bung Chooa and Chen-Kung Choua
aDepartment of Medical Research, Veterans General Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan
bDepartment of Internal Medicine, Veterans General Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan
cInstitute of Biochemistry, National Yang-Ming Medical College, Taipei, Taiwan
dInstitute of Traditional Medicine, National Yang-Ming Medical College, Taipei, Taiwan
Received 10 August 1992;  
accepted 16 October 1992.  
Available online 12 November 2002.

Abstract
It has been suggested that Phyllanthus amarus may be helpful in the treatment of hepatitis B virus infection. We studied the effect of an aqueous extract of P. amarus on the cultured hepatoma cell line HepA2. This cell line had been transfected with tandemly arranged HBV DNA and continued to synthesize and secrete both HBsAg and HBeAg. Extract of P. amarus reversibly inhibited cellular proliferation and suppressed HBsAg production but not HBeAg production in HepA2 cells. We also found that P. amarus suppressed HBsAg gene expression at mRNA level in a time-dependent manner, and selectively abolished the HBsAg gene promoter driven CAT activity. Our results demonstrate that P. amarus contains some active components which can suppress the HBsAg gene expression in human hepatoma cells. Such suppression may contribute the antiviral activity of P. amarus in vivo.
Phyllanthus amarus down-regulates hepatitis B virus mRNA transcription and replication.
Lee CD, Ott M, Thyagarajan SP, Shafritz DA, Burk RD, Gupta S.
Marion Bessin Liver Research Center, Madras, India.
Abstract
The Phyllanthus amarus plant shows potential for treating hepatitis B virus. To define the mechanism of action of P. amarus, we used HepG2 2.2.15 cells, which support hepatitis B virus replication. P. amarus inhibited hepatitis B virus polymerase activity, decreased episomal hepatitis B virus DNA content and suppressed virus release into culture medium. To examine transcriptional control mechanisms, we used G26 hepatitis B virus transgenic mice, which produce serum HBsAg but neither HBcAg nor virion particles. When P. amarus was administered to transgenic mice, hepatic HBsAg mRNA levels decreased, indicating transcriptional or post-transcriptional down-regulation of the transgene. Increase in hepatitis B virus mRNA expression after stimulation of the glucocorticoid responsive element was also suppressed by P. amarus, suggesting involvement of the hepatitis B virus enhancer in this response. Disruption by P. amarus of hepatitis B virus polymerase activity, mRNA transcription and replication supports its role as an antiviral agent.
PMID: 9013081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Hepatitis (chronic viral hepatitis B virus)

Phyllanthus inhibits proliferation of the hepatitis B virus (HBV) by inhibiting replication of the virus' genetic material; it blocks DNA polymerase, the enzyme needed for the hepatitis B and C virus to reproduce.
Phyllanthus may have a positive effect on antiviral activity and liver biochemistry in chronic HBV infection.
On the other hand: conventional treatment with interferon-alpha* (IntronA®, Roferon-A®) is expensive and may have serious side effects.

* Interferon is used as a treatment for some types of cancer. These include cancer of the kidney, malignant melanoma, multiple myeloma, carcinoid tumous and some types of lymphoma and leukaemia. Interferon is also used to treat diseases other than cancer.

Dosage

Tincture: 1 - 4 ml / daily.
Infusion: 1 - 3 cups / day (1 - 2 teaspoons / cup)

[stef2011]

i am sorry if you got me wrong but we do know phillanthus amarus and we psoted about it in the past, it is ok to try it and very good if one can get hbvdna und and alt norml but it is very weak on most people, so it is good to say it worked on me but don t know for the others so that if hbvdna doesn t get und it is wasted time

in our alinia group most are chinese on traditional medicine too from chinese forum hbvhbv and very very weak results are obtained from phyllanthus and ocmatrine.
even them don t use traditional medicine or at least use both because results from phillanthus are in a very very small percentage

those articles are very old for all the discoveries made in this filed, from 2005 to 2010 everything has changed and both interferon is not used anymore because results very little and also drugs are changed very much and from indian generics we get them very cheap, now it is a matter of combo according to hbv phase and everything can be used, even interferon in the rare cases of low hbsag to eradicate virus

[shellywinters]

I have seen iot posted and am simply a voice explaining it worked!

I drank it all the time! I made the tea very dark.

I fell in love the 1st time with a guy who I thought would leave me if I did not get rid of this.

I made the tea  very strong (I could not see through it it was like the color of weak brown coffee and some of the tiny tid-bits would make it past the filter and. I NEVER missed a dosage for those 1st 2 weeks.

1st thing in the morning, At lunch time at work, 1st thing when I got home from work, a glass glass after dinner  and another before bed at 11.

The minimum was Morning, afternoon around 5 and just before bed.

I would drink it an remember the Blumburg published journal where chronic cases were cleared after three months.

At that time I was not consistent with my vitamins but generally I took something off and on that time even though I had not understood the viral reducing effects of at least 300 micro grams of selenium and additional antioxidant effects of 400 IU of vitamin E.


I’m going to go check the fax machine….

[shellywinters]

update, "I NEVER missed a dosage for those 1st 2 weeks"

meant months.

Nothing on the fax machine : (

I'll keep looking

[ono8ono]

"The virus uses the selenium mineral while in your liver to power its reproductive ability. "
So you recommend taking 200mcg selenium daily but with the increased selenium intake do you think you are helping the virus to reproduce faster too?

[shellywinters]

If it worked this good for me, maybe there is some one else out there it can work for, perhaps with my recommended method, frequency and strength it will work for others .

The results are dramatic! From Jan 09 to Mar 09 to go from over 10 Million down to 300 thousand viral load. What more proof do you need with a 97% reduction in VL?

If there is a possibility that something may work, but did not, I never felt like it was a waste even if I paid alot of money for it. I am not rich at all! Things that did not work I gladly scratched off the list knowing I did my best and tried.

What did not Work: Extra Virgin coconut oil. Too hard to eat as its gross to eat oil. Capsules are ok but I wanted quick results. There was no dramatic decrease in VL the time period I was taking this.

Inconclusive: Parasite cleans: I read that most people some form of parasite from Tape worms to small liver fluke parasites that are like virus factories. Eliminating viruses alone may reduce it from your body but not completely if you have parasites. Again human parasites are disgusting yes, but also common.

I did a cleanse taking Black Walnut, Wormwood and Clove nothing came reduction did happen but I was still taking the Chanca Piedra tea. I had a test the same week and made used the reccamended dosage for the 3 and there were no elevated liver ensyms.

Perhaps due to the liver protectant of the tea and Alpha Lipoic acid

I hear something on the fax machine....

[cam4930]

>the only alternative i see is try nitazoxanide first for 6-12 months at 1,5 or 2g daily dose
>and see if it lowers hbsag and hbvdna, if you don t see any improvement add tenofovir

>at least nitazoxanide is not a one way and you can stop it plus it might eradicate hbsag

Two reasons I hesitate to start ntz right now:

1) no hbsag quantitative to baseline its effectiveness
2) use of ntz in hbv is still not very conclusive. e.g. side effects. Even though there is no side effects so far, but no body has taken the drugs for ~5 years. It is hard to compare side effects with anti-virals.

Since for over 20 yrs, my liver got very minimum damage, it could be two reasons: 1) most of the time hbv dna was UND and ALT normal, 2) I am not susceptible to liver damage (maybe by gene). This time hbv dna flares up, either a regular also happened in the past and not a big deal, or it is serious due to my age. Nobody knows what had happened in the past and what will happen in the future. So I have to live with statistics and the most current guidelines for the disease.

If ntz does eradicate hbv as future probably proves, I can always start later and get rid of hbsag. Then taking tdf is not a big deal except wasting some money (let along my insurance will get some of the bills) to buy insurance.

To shellywinters: thanks for your suggestions. If some of your recommendation are really useful (as controversies exist), I can take them in the same time after hbv dna UND as suggested by stefano. So I will not miss anything, but wasting some money probably not too much if the cure is working.

[shellywinters]

thats a good question "So you recommend taking 200mcg selenium daily but with the increased selenium intake do you think you are helping the virus to reproduce faster too? "

No, it acutallt takes the glutathione in your liver. Selenium is an antioxident and conversted into glutathione. Once delpeated, health declines...

Selenium. The protective role of selenium against HBV was reported in 1997 in the journal Biological Trace Element Research. The study reported that, in areas of China with high rates of hepatitis B and primary liver cancer, high levels of dietary selenium reduced the incidence of liver cancer and hepatitis B infection. In a 4-year trial of 130,471 people, those who were given selenium-spiked table salt showed a 35.1 percent reduction in primary liver cancer, compared with the group who received salt without selenium. In the same journal report, another clinical study of 226 people who tested positive for hepatitis B showed that taking a 200-mcg tablet a day of selenium reduced the incidence of primary liver cancer to zero. Upon cessation of selenium supplementation, the incidence of primary liver cancer began to rise. The study seems to indicate that taking selenium on a continuous basis is beneficial to people who have viral hepatitis (Yu SY et al 1997).
These human trials have been duplicated in animal studies. The animal studies showed that selenium supplementation reduced hepatitis B infection by 77.2 percent and precancerous liver lesions by 75.8 percent.
Another study in the Journal of Trace Elements and Medical Biology reported the role of trace minerals in diseases such as liver disease and hepatitis. The report indicates that, while there is still some debate regarding the specific role of trace minerals, minerals such as selenium and zinc are of benefit to those who have diseases such as hepatitis (Loguercio C et al 1997).
A 3-year study of 20,847 people investigated whether supplementation with sodium selenite could prevent hepatitis B. The researchers concluded that: "The incidence of virus hepatitis infection in the test population was significantly lower than that of controls provided with no selenium" (Yu SY et al 1989).