vitamin d used as antiviral my sister and brij116 results

[stef2011]

my sister:
baseline vitamin d around 10ng/ml 1 year ago
previous ast/alt around 60-70
previous hbvdna around 200.000iu/ml
previous hbsag around  18.000-19.000iu/ml
serum calcium stable low before and after vit d suplements 8.9mg/dl

results of my sister from baseline vit d deficency and low supplements 1000iu daily until march 2011 when she started vit d3 with 5000-10000iu daily.feeling very good and never tired since vit d equal or superior 70ng/ml

DATE therapy hbsag  DNA ALT AST VIT D
15/02/2012                17476   43220    23    31       69  (5000iu daily)
20/12/2011    194000 40 38       82  (always 10.000iu daily)
28/09/2011 18183    88864 49 34    66  (5000iu daily)
26/07/2011         55     41       53  (5000iu daily)
16/06/2011         69 54    74  (5000iu daily)
15/04/2011         66 44
22/03/2011 16547>17milion 30 20    33  (1000iu daily) superinfection of unknown virus to stomach
08/02/2011 13661 9532000 72 50    21   (sumer sun) superinfection of unknown virus to stomach
15/06/2010 17379  221250 61 42    11   no vit d supplements - baseline values and stable like this in 2009 and 2008

hbsag and hbvdna iu/ml, vit d25oh ng/ml
fibroscan 2010 4.5kpa,
fibroscan early 2011 increased when hbvdna to milions to 6.1kpa
fibroscan today 5.1kpa

brij116
Vit D3        - 56.8 ng/ml     ( 2 months back - 40.30 ng/m)
HBV DNA  - 6450 IU/mL    ( 6 months back - 10170 IU/mL)
HBsAg      - 22378  IU/mL ( 6 months back - 16426 IU/mL)
AST          - 27.0              (2 months back - 28.0)
ALT          - 38.0               (2 months back - 31
S. Bilirubin Total - 1.0        ( 2 months back - 0.61)

fibroscan 4kpa after vit d improved to 3.6kpa

[stef2011]

DATE therapy hbsag       DNA          ALT   AST     VIT D
15/02/2012                17476     43220            23       31       69  
20/12/2011                             194000           40      38       82
28/09/2011         18183      88864     49      34       66
26/07/2011                                           55        41       53
16/06/2011                                           69      54       74  
15/04/2011                                          66     44
22/03/2011         16547      >17milion     30        20       33
08/02/2011        13661         9532000   72       50        21
15/06/2010        17379         221250   61       42        11   no vit d

[stef2011]

sorry it is impossible to post in this website, we should ask medhelp to correct this

i have posted excell here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsE77QizhkLQdHFlZVhPOVpHOXJfNzNmSUdEQzdZZWc

[stef2011]

so i think there are clear results with vit d serum levels 70-90ng/ml and this can be strongly suggested to anyone with vit d25oh and calcium monitoring every 3 months at least

[stef2011]

also from my experince, my ister and brij it looks like a dose of 10000iu daily is needed to reach 80-90ng/ml and then little lower around 7000-8000iu daily to mantain those levels

since max normal range is 100ng/ml it is best to monitor every month or every 3 months maximum calcium and vit d

[grmr]

thanks Stef for the valuable service you provide, I'm having my VITD conutn in the next weeks after 3 months of 10000iu daily intake.

I however noticed this does not affect a calcium level and get them to a hazardous limit!

[stef2011]

this does not affect a calcium level.....

i do agree, nobody i know ever got anincrease of calcium even on 10.000iu daily or years on vit d, so i believe there is too much terrorism on vit d being toxic

[calmama]

For me, 2000 iu vitamin d3 supplement a day was enough to bring my vit d25oh level up to 69 ng/ml from the baseline 22 ng/ml.

My lab report said: "Possible Toxicity: Greater than 150 ng/mL".

[stef2011]

it is easier to bring it up from baseline around 25ng/ml which is not severe deficency, me, my sister and my fater were all around 10-11ng/ml baseline but  anyone has different kinetics

[4est]

it seams that Vit D have some antiviral activity, but no activity against the qAgHbs, but is a good thing to have vit D in a high range, especially if a treatment is carryout or planed.

[grmr]

Got labs on VITD3 count after 3/4 months of 10000iu dailiìy intake..

October 2011  23ng/mL
March 2012    88ng/mL

[stef2011]

very good now you just have to find your maintenace dose by lowering to 7000iu and see

[grmr]

unfortunately pills are 5000iu so I'd say 10000daily during week and 5000iu daily on weekends

[BeachTiePurist]

increasing s.bilirubin to 1.0 seems high.  is this normal when taking vitD?

brij116
S. Bilirubin Total - 1.0        ( 2 months back - 0.61)

[stef2011]

bilirubin has nothing to do with vit d, it is just liver mulfunction due to hbv, vit d can only protect liver from damage and liver mulfunction

if bilirubin gets high it is best to make hbvdn und as soon as possible and check liver damage by fibroscan, keeping inmind other diseases can rise bilirubin and are of no relevance to liver damage or hbv

[4est]

in last period i read some article about vit D and most of the articles agree that vit D reduce the inflamation and have some immunosuppressive effect.
( http://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/vitamind )

what i don't understand is the antiviral effect and the combination vit D + interferon because lowering the inflammation and being immunosuppressive is the oposite for antiviral or interferon (I miss something on this pictures)

[stef2011]

many of this research just observe without clear explanation of all vit d pathways:

we know vitamin d has effect on macrophages but macrophages have many different populations that guide all immune response, inflammation and suppression of immune response, so you have to check wht is the status when you increase vitamin d:

if you have autoimmune disease, you increase vit d which activates the type of macrophages that act on suppressing immune response

if you have excess of cytokines and inflammation, for example what we have on active hbv you lower inflammation but at the same time increase immune sresponse

do vit d can do both lower immune response and increase immune response according to what is needed and this can take place even at the same time

[almaja]

So if I have autoimune thyrod desise and hep.b I shuldn't take vitamon d it culd supress my imune sistem?

[imdb90]

in cases in which the immune response has been suppressed by supplementation with an  immunosuppressant such as the secosteroid 25-D, one would expect  to see fewer clinical manifestations of disease in the short-term, yet more advanced disease in the long-term. At a certain point,
depending on the clinical symptom or physiological markers of
disease, patients supplementing with vitamin D would be expected to
approach a "crossover point" when additional reduction of the
immune response is eclipsed by the advancing disease (Figure 2).
This outcome has been demonstrated in longitudinal studies, with
studies on sicker or older patients taking less time to realize the
effect.

http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/AR-Albert-VitD.pdf

[imdb90]

Prevailing theories of vitamin D are imprecise and suggest
contradictory understandings of vitamin D metabolism.

• 25-hydroxyvitamin D is immunosuppressive.
• Supplementation of the secosteroid vitamin D temporarily
alleviates signs and symptoms of chronic disease but leads to a
long-term increase in morbidity.
• Molecular biology suggests that low levels of 25-D are a result
rather than a cause of the autoimmune disease process.
• A microbiota of bacterial pathogens may survive in the human body
by secreting proteins that antagonize the VDR and disable the
innate immune response.
• Elevated levels of 1,25-D exist at the site of disease and are an
indication that the innate immune system is responding to an
infection.

[calmama]

Yes I have read about the 2 schools of thought regarding vitamin d for chronic illness.  One believes in the benefit of high level 25-OH-vit D, while the other cautions against that.  It is suggested that people with low 25-OH-vit D levels to be tested for 1,25-OH-vit D to see if it's high, which indicates immune dysfunction caused by bacterial infection--a culprit some people believe is for a lot of chronic illnesses.

I haven't read enough to see which one is more believable.  But the majority of doctors in my area seem to go with the first school of thought, because they only test 25-OH-vit D and recommend supplement when the level is low.  I am a bit lost.  Maybe I'll ask my doctor about 1,25-OH-vit D test?

[stef2011]

those scholl of thoughts are all wrong, vitamin d doesn nothing but boost macrophages functionc, according to the needs of our body macrophages do the immune response or suppress it.our immune response are done of 2 parts at the same time one active and one to suppress, otherwise the active one would kill us

your thinking or those scholls are foolish, macrophages are the ones to destroy a liver a make cirrhosis, at the same time are the ones to repair liver and regress cirrhosis, so if you follow that way of thought my liver would be destroyed now and not normal after cirrhosis since i have my vit d normal levels

the point is not vitamin d, the point is balance in your immune systems and vitamin d does that balance according to what is needed to achieve that balance.

as regards hbv and hcv the must for all hbvers is take vitamin d and make your levels normal and if you have asma and autoimmune diseases it will heal them too all at the same time

[stef2011]

i used the wrong word, it is not clear hbv, hcv or asma, the word i meant is it makes balance whtever the diseases and even at the  same time.

this is simply because it acts on the many types of macrophages which are resident and different in al organs and then even within the organ there are many populations too, vit d will help balance all these populations in different organs

here s one of the latest findings on vt d action and pathways
http://ortho.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=208

[stef2011]

Vitamin D: the alternative hypothesis.
Autoimmun Rev. 2009 Jul;8(8):639-44. Epub 2009 Feb 12.
Albert PJ, Proal AD, Marshall TG.
Weill Cornell Medical College, New York, NY 10065, USA. ***@****
Abstract
Early studies on vitamin D showed promise that various forms of the “vitamin” may be protective against chronic disease, yet systematic reviews and longer-term studies have failed to confirm these findings. A number of studies have suggested that patients with autoimmune diagnoses are deficient in 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-D) and that consuming greater quantities of vitamin D, which further elevates 25 D levels, alleviates autoimmune disease symptoms. Some years ago, molecular biology identified 25 D as a secosteroid. Secosteroids would typically be expected to depress inflammation, which is in line with the reports of symptomatic improvement. The simplistic first-order mass-action model used to guide the early vitamin studies is now giving way to a more complex description of action. When active, the Vitamin D nuclear receptor (VDR) affects transcription of at least 913 genes and impacts processes ranging from calcium metabolism to expression of key antimicrobial peptides. Additionally, recent research on the Human Microbiome shows that bacteria are far more pervasive than previously thought, increasing the possibility that autoimmune disease is bacterial in origin. Emerging molecular evidence suggests that symptomatic improvements among those administered vitamin D is the result of 25-D’s ability to temper bacterial-induced inflammation by slowing VDR activity. While this results in short-term palliation, persistent pathogens that may influence disease progression, proliferate over the long-term.

[4est]

just one to report some results.

4 month ago (Nov) I had the first test for vit. D and the result was 17.6 and I start to take some vitamin D. Plan was to have 5000 UI/day but i was not paing so much atention and I was take 5000 UI/day frome time to time. now I made some other tests and the result were realy good and it can be related to this vit D, or can be just a coincidence.

- Vit D3  - 40,8 ug/l was 17,6 ug/l  in Nov 2011 - (I was take 5000 UI
daily, in fact 2/week because some days I forgot to have it)

- HVB DNA - 34 IU.ml  (was 97 IU/ml in May 2011 and 117 IU/ml in Nov)

- qHBsAg   - 7845.14 was 8654,95 IU/ml in Nov 2011

- ALT - 19  (was 14 in May 2011, 18 in July 2011 and 20 in Nov )

- AST - 25 (was 21 in May 2011 and 22 in July 2011 and 23 in Nov )

- Cholesterol total  - 148 very good (was 170 in May 2011, 136 in July
2011 and 153 in Nov)

- HDL - 35  (was 36 in Nov)  - I was take some fish oil, but no effect

- LDL - 94  - (was 104 in Nov)

- Serum Iron - 118 (was 176 in July 2011 and 157 in Nov)


In the last 4 month the only supplemental that I was taken was vit D 5000 UI and some omega 3 (both from time to time) and increase some sport activity. I know that this is only one result and can be a coincidence or can be from some other causes.

comments ?