A Disturbing Study regarding other routes of transmission

[DoubleDose]

I will post a link to a study that I just read which relates to one of my more hypothetical HCV transmission concerns.  I will not draw any conclusions, or follow the logic from their discussion, as I usually might.  In this case I will suggest that after browsing the article, that everyone read the discussion very closely.  I think the issues raised are potentially very contrary to common beliefs about HCV, and are in line with many of my concerns about 'other modes' of transmission.  The lymphotrophic aspects of this virus raise the possibility of infection in cells and tissues other than strictly serum related cells.  I will be curious to see the follow up studies. You can form your own questions about the potential for some sort of transmission.

Here is the link:

http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/43/9/4413

Any thoughts, or concerns from our forum members on this study???

I think the discussion is extremely noteworthy and provocative.

DoubleDose

[BThompson4]

Regarding occult hep c research, I doubt if researchers who find traces of hcv in someone's body when it is undetectable in the blood also write about family members of hep c carriers having "inexplicable" hep c symptoms.  Given your posts on hep c symptoms in people you live with-- people that have been tested for hep c but always turn out negative-- begs the reader to come to the conclusion that you are saying that the presence of hep c in places other than a person's blood is potentially dangerous, whether you state that it is dangerous or not.

[Mary4now]

For now I will adhere to the recommendations by my hepatologist who seems to be on the ball.  I think looking at the information is important but being able to decipher the studies is beyond me at this point.   M

[kcrandy]

wow!  thank you for your response. i too as you do want to find the answers to and eventual cure of hcv.  if you think my comments directed to you were personal they were not they were meant to be hypothetical and to prove a point that things and or comments and or opinions can be taken out of context.  just look at the hiv sufferers in thier early dealings of that virus and the publics reaction to it.  i was not trying to question your knowledge or your question about transmission of this virus.  personally i would be curious to know if the virus has other ways of transmission, could this be a different type of virus in the line of hcv or can said virus mutate and become something entirely different yet appearing as the hcv virus still causing the same damage.  your question is a good one as i stated on my first response.  i too come to this group to get knowledge and try to help the newcomers,the ones in tx and those who are post tx.


i will admit i say things that appear to be cofronting or demeaning and if i have done so to the point that some or anyone of you thinks i am out of line i pray said persons will let me know, i respect confrontong issues heads up.


please forgive my abrasive attitude DD.


look forward to hearing from you in the future.  :O)

[DoubleDose]

Let's get this straight as far as trying to criticize or make light of other people's opinions, etc.  First, I did not make any comments to you in my last post, but responded to Nomad's rant.  I have basically tried to follow a line of reasoning, based on recent research and questions raised by the doctors doing the research.  I don't apologize for wondering what is going on, or what some of these more 'strange' findings might mean.  I mean, do any of you lambast the researchers who publish studies documenting 'occult' HCV and how it behaves in very odd and not understood ways?  Often infecting only one system, or compartment, and without any confirmation by standard HCV testing.  

Other researchers have published many, many studies now, in various countries, documenting ongoing viral replication long after SVR is achieved, and also in spontaneous clearers.  Does anyone accuse them of spreading fear?  Or 'ostracising groups of people.  Look, I understand that the fluid, and salivary issues are very unclear, and have few serious researchers looking at what might happen in these apparent 'exchanges of fluids" with close contacts, that MIGHT bear replicating HCV.   I think the study first posted in this thread asks some provocative questions, and allows for the fact that the medical community does not fully understand what any of this might mean, as far as some sort of 'infectivity', or localized, compartmentalized ongoing replication, or transmissability...etc.  

I merely have tried to extrapolate what the researchers are discovering, and ask questions that will need to be answered.  We have just seen a relayed comment from HR  (thanks sfbaygirl), indicating that this may well be happening just as hypothesized by me, and as alluded to by the research article.  From his comments, this 'spousal infection' within the lymphatic system is likely not a problem, and remains contained, without triggering a blood borne infection.

The only question that I will leave all of you with is this:

If there indeed is some sort of 'lymphatic infection' with HCV being passed sometimes, to close contacts, or any other sort of benign, or unspecified infection being transmitted through saliva, sexual fluids, etc....whether assumed harmless or not........
Would you want to know about this?   Would you want to see the viral behavior studied, and ultimately fully understood?  Or would you rather that researchers ignore these 'odd' findings, and just assume that they either are not important, or that they should not create additional concerns about HCV???

As far as the comments about brave people treating, and dealing with the horrible consequences of therapy....believe me I understand that one personally.  I think I have earned my 'bravery' stripes with the nearly three years of high dose tx that I endured.  I don't usually refer to it in these terms, nor consider it to be a big deal...just a necessary ordeal to be able to avoid a more horrible alternative.  I hope that I also qualify to express my opinions, ask questions, and follow lines of reason...so that we all can eventually figure out what the complete range of the disease involves.  

I truly don't think anyone is going to single out our questions and theories and use them to incite hysteria or discrimination out there.  I honestly do not.  I think that the medical research has a far bigger chance of being looked at by the public and taken as serious commentary.  And some of the recent research (not just my comments) has been downright disturbing.  I may not always like to hear all of what is being discovered, but I do want to know it anyway.  It is whatever it is.  And if some of my more disturbing hypotheses, or just plain scary questions can be proven false...I will be the first one to say Hurray! Wonderful!! I certainly do not WISH these things to be true.  The research, though, drives my questions. (and often my personal observations, as well)

I am honestly sorry if any of my comments have insulted anyone, or appeared to be demeaning to anyone....but if some of you are totally frank about some of your responses...I could as easily be offended!  But I am not.  I usually just tend to shoot back with a similar veined response.  Absolutely nothing personal in my comments...other than just tossing the 'compliment' right back.

And, I absolutely respect and encourage the opinions and theories of everyone on this Forum.  Sfbaygirl, I really do admire your humor and candor.  I like your style.  Thanks for your comments and criticism.  You say what you think, and you are not concerned about looking at both sides of a coin.  Sometimes we can feel two contrary ways about the same issue, and simultaneously hold oppositional points of view (within ourselves), and I think that is good.  It is the root of seeking truth.

DoubleDose

[sfbaygirl]

LOL  Yep, I can blame all my ranting on bush, hillary and the bunch. especially global warming!  I think my husbands ex blames me for all of the above and the war and Hamas!   It is hard not to take remarks personally at times...god know I do.  I am sure your bio hazard suit is a great thing to have. Wish I had one! LOL  You are okay, I am okay we all are okay, on or off tx that post tx fog is alive and well!  Just a shame we have to deal with any of this.  I agree, blood to blood should be the focus...I would hate to think my hubby has virons running around b/c  of me. I haven't told him this yet and maybe I won't as the transmission in the lympathic sytem won't effect him.  I sure don't want to freak him out!  Especially when it isn't going to cause him harm.  

[kcrandy]

well stated, and point taken.  i guess i took some remarks a little to personal.  when anyone implies i or anyone in the group is hiding thier heads in the sand rather than want to face a fact not a hypothetical it tends to tick me off.  i was taking my issue to the impth degree to make a point that the issues such as DD brought to the group,
( and for me i stated it is a good idea to know how this virus can be transmitted ),   could be take completely out of context, therefore reflecting negatively on hcv sufferers.  as you stated and referenced HR blood to blood transmission should be the focus, but HR also stated that bl to bl trans percentages are extremely low.  my bio-hazard suit was brought up in another thread a while back and my point then as it is now was not to take the saliva issue to seriously or out of context and cause mass hysteria a.k.a.
"refer madness", goerge bush, hilary, barroka, mccain, global warming etc... : O )

i guess i could blame all this on post tx brain fog.  :O)