Cirrhosis and fatty liver

[painintheside]

Hi,
I have had a ultrasound a few years ago that said I had fatty liver (this was before being diagnosed as having HCV). Once finding out about the HCV, I had a bx and learned that I am Stage 4 of 4 (cirrhosis) and grade 3 of 4. After doing some reading, I found out that sometimes cirrhosis can be mistaken for fatty liver. I clearified it with my hep doc and he did agree.

Even more reason for those scared to have bx done to have it done. This is info that can get you started on a road to recovery. I, of course, got on tx ASAP. And it is important (in my opinion) to have a bx. I would have NEVER guessed having cirrhosis at 33.

Please don't take this as anything but concern for those who may be having a hard time deciding about the bx. If you have had an ultrasound showing fatty liver, get a bx done!

Best Regards,
Dana

[painintheside]

Hello,
Yes, I am treating (did #4 Thursday). I am thin 123# and 5'9", so no fatty liver because of obesity or fast food hoggin. We eat pretty healthy.

I am a geno 3 and estimate having hep c for 17 years. My doc said some just progress faster then others ( I know my boobs never did....lol). Anyway, getting really fatigued from tx. But still not as bad as I was expecting. Of course, that will/can hit soon enough.

Hope everyone is doing well!

Sincerely,
Dana

[strator]

I'm a true believer that sharing both our struggles and triumphs seems to redistibute the load so the bad days feel lighter and you get to appreciate the good days a little longer. Somedays I just rely on team mentality- I actually get a visual in my head of people lending a shoulder to help carry the load.
Cuteus- As far as exercise- It can be tough to get motivated. Sometimes I have a day(like today) when I'm not getting physical exercise at work. I picked something up a long time ago. It doesn't have to be a 'workout'. A looonnnnnngggggg time ago I was training to be a professional boxer in NYC. The workouts were brutal. 4 hours 5 days a week non stop. As soon as you set foot in the gym, everything you did was 3 minutes, rest a minute, 3 minutes, and on and on for 4 hours. Years later I had trouble getting motivated to workout because that's what I pictured to get results. I'd always done long and arduous. Well 'necessity may be the mother of invention', but 'laziness is the mother of efficiency'. Now as I go through the day I do 'workout bytes'. When I pass through the hallway I stretch and tap the top of the doorway a few times, or while I'm watching supper cook I may drop and do a few pushups or just twist side to side. I just work little stuff that isn't overwhelming into my day. Take short but frequent walks. We have 13 steps to the  second floor, Most days I run up'em without thinkin because it's habit. Just keep it easy and natural, I don't even realize I'm doing it most days. Small consistent exercise has great benefits for those of us that aren't presently up to training for marathons. And laugh like all get out.
Don

[azgrl]

Hey there.  
Good to see you.  I just had my bx done and I chose to do it because of the ultrasound showning fatty liver which shocked me because I am 32 not overweight etc etc etc....I am going crazy waiting for the results.
How long have you had hepc?  I wonder if that plays a role or if the genotype plays a role.  I can't remember what geno you were.  I thought you were a 3 like me.
Deb in az

[v eggie dip]

Strator:

Thank you for your eloquent words..that was one of the best threads I have read on this forum..I am relatively new here and have not learned whether I need to start tx now or can wait a bit, and mostly what I have heard here is the horrible sides and people bickering over treatment versus not treatment...You said it well, thank you very much...I hope to see you here a lot...

Beth

[cuteus]

you will be a definite asset in this forum, please post as often as you can, so that the picture is balanced.

THis forum made me laugh and kept me sane when I came back 6 months into tx. I did not feel the need for company until then.

I am glad you mentioned exercise, because most folks don't feel like moving at all, but that is a major mistake, to just sit around feeling sorry for yourself, I tried it once in the 18 months of tx, and regretted it. Sitting around enhances the bad sides. Any type of physical activity will tire us, but it will benefit more than hurt us. Taking that first or second step is the hardest part. I know some are thinking "yeah right", "f y" no way I can move, but recovery after tx will be swifter if we don't have to build every muscle back.
be well

[GoofyDad]

I'm doing pretty well, thanks. Number 5 for me too, but I bumped up to around noon on Sat. That works a little better. I have a better Sunday, and still get most of Saturday free. Actually, this week I'm just buzzed from it, nothing else. We'll see what tomorrow brings. I have a 4 week viral load test in the lab (some docs do 4 weeks, some wait till 12), so I'm anxious to hear what that says next week.  

Dude, you're not going to get much sympathy around here about  trouble hauling handtrucks up stairs! Puhleeze! Hey, I'm glad you're able to do it. Happy that you made it through the week and earned some cash. Take care.

[GoofyDad]

You're always quick to respond to my questions. Thanks.

I'll talk with the doc next week, but my curiosity is whether it's likely that a 2-stab bx could miss the fatty areas, or whether the fat is typically uniformly distributed. Also, call it denial if you will, but I like to think I don't have these gross structural changes yet. I guess I got one or the other, and I don't get to choose, do I?  

[cuteus]

I can not believe the work you are doing! I am impressed! Please don't push yourself too much if you can, anemia will start forcing you to slow down at some point, and it can be discouraging, mostly because it will last for months if not treated.  The rain was horrendous here in LI also, but I have an indoor, desk job. that is the reason why I can go on MH almost daily.  I feel an obligation to present a fair picture of tx to newbies dropping by. When the board is frequented by folks in need of comfort because of the overwhelming number of sides they feel, it becomes a source of fear to those considering tx. It presents to them the picture that tx is hell and everyone is having a horrible time and will have lasting effects.  It is unfortunate that those with no or  mild sides do not find themselves chatting online with newbies, because they do not have the need for comfort.
I want people to know that; yes, tx is uncomfortable and can be life threatening if anemia is left untreated, that aches can be depressing but ADs are not needed with the frequency they are prescribed and that most do not suffer long lasting effects. Brain fog will come in handy after tx is over, you might not remember the awful feelings.
I noticed the fatigue and shortness of breath after the first month, muscles will hurt as if they were never exercised and there would be some dizziness.  Once anemia was treated, the painkillers did the rest. I was able to go to my desk job everyday.
I can not see heavy work and jobs that require a great deal of concentration surviving a long tx, for those that do these while on tx, I salute you.
Pace yourself. It is a long race.

[strator]

Hey, thanks for checking in on me, and while I'm thanking people I want to send out a large thanks to all the people that have finished treatment and check in to reach out and give back to us who are beginning or preparing for the journey.

All in all it went pretty well and I feel fortunate. I am exhausted though. Monday I had a light day at  my reg job but Tues-Fri....9 hour days driving and delivering to 12 or 14 stops in the constant downpour here in Connecticut. I can't complain about the weather with what's been going on in NO and that quake in Pakistan but.. I'd be soaked to the bone by the time I loaded the van in the morning, doing about 150 miles a day loading and emptying the van 2-3 times. 2 things did really bother me though. One was I noticed my strength just wasn't up to par pulling a loaded handtruck up stairs. But the one that got me was feeling 'Geeked out.' By 10 am or so I felt like I use to feel when I'd go days without sleep, the drugs had run out, and I was squeezing empty bottles for 1 last shot to take the edge off, totally stressed.  It was pretty upsetting because I felt physically like I was on drugs and my body wanted a drink. I didn't get sober cause of the hep- I got sober cause I'm a card carrying round the clock drunk. Wed was the worst, the rain wouldn't stop, 2 of my deliveries were to bars at like 5pm with 4 stops yet to go, it was my birthday(3rd one clean & sober). I felt like I'd been working  around noxious fumes. Not nauseous, I was snacking on apples and water and some coffee, but just like there was bad stuff carousing through my veins. Anyway I made it through though I can't tell whether the aches and pains are the meds or the job. But the money was good and the guy I worked for is hooking me up with a bunch of artists that have a gallery in the same warehouse. So who's got it better than me? I did shot 5 tonight and go for bloodwork Wed. How are YOU doing?

[v eggie dip]

Have you had a transplant?

Beth

[strator]

goofydad/cuteus -No reason for sympathy here. I consider myself blessed so far.I'm just trying to get as much work in as I can, while I can, in case the sides take a turn. Also having done a lot of physical jobs over the years, especially recently, has helped probably for a few reasons-first -it's exercise which is stimulating, also our bodies adjust to what they are asked to do and you just get built up to it, and you learn all the little tricks of balance. Years ago in my 20's I did concrete work. I was in great shape but struggled while 2 guys in their 60's made it look easy and did more than me. Also I'm used to aches and pains from work although they are more consistent since I started treatment. I've had corporate desk jobs also and they have their own just as tough physical and mental issues. I do have a 'broken thinker' though, and was almost hoping to feel worse so I could stay home and work on my paintings, napping whenever I wanted. Someday.

To Anyone who may be starting or considering treatment- The number one thing that has helped me is talking to people  who have treated or are on treatment. Whether in a support group or here on the forum. It has armed me with knowledge. I don't have the technical or medical understanding of all this that others have, but I figured it's like going on vacation(LOL). If you have the chance to chat with someone who's been wher you're going you have an idea what to expect, maybe the best route to take,  what to eat or not eat, and even though you feel strange and different, you know it's Just because ya ain't in Kansas anymore Toto. Remember the person you talk to might have had a bad experience, they got a flat tire, they couldn't seem to communicate with the locals(drs), the food was too spicy, etc. But you may be luckier and have the time of your life. Just maybe because they told you.... you won't get a flat if you stay off the backroads, get an interpeter, and there's a great place off highway so & so that will cook your food  anyway you want. So it's your story but it is definitely manageable with the help of the wonderful people on this forum who reach out to guide us.

[LvdByGod!]

NOW REMEMBER THAT MOVIE "SUPERSIZE IT". THE GUY IN THE DOCUMENTARY GOT FATTY LIVER IN ONE MONTH BY EATING MCDONALDS EVERY DAY FOR 30 DAYS AND HIS DR WAS WORRIED!!!   ALCHOHOL WOULD PACK IT ON QUICKLY TOO AND SO WOULD GAINING WEIGHT AND EATING HIGH FAT FOODS...IF YOU HAVE FATTY LIVER AVOID EATING FATS AND SIMPLE CARBOHYDRATES. AND EXCERSIZE TO SPEED UP MATABALISM.

JUST THINK ABOUT THE HOLIDAYS, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR ALL THAT "GOOD FOOD" TO ADD ON THE FAT POUNDAGE?

MY GUESS AND I THINK I IT SOMEWHERE TOO, BUT HAVE NO IDEA WHERE. IS THAT FATTY LIVER CAN COME ON QUICKLY FROM CERTAIN ASULTS TO THE LIVER..

JUST ANOTHER REMINDER THAT THERE ARE FOLKS THAT GET ALOT OF FAT BUILD UP FOR NO APPARANT REASON, ALTHOUGH MOST ARE HIGH BMI OR OVERWIEGHT THAT CAN GET NASH..."NON ALCHOLIC STEATOSIS". THESE FOLKS GO ON TO LIVER FAILURE JUST FROM THE FAT ALONE...SO AS HEP CEERS , WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO ADD ANY COMPLICATIONS FROM A FATTY LIVER...

MY DR SAID THE STANDARD LOW FAT DIET WOULD WORK...NOW DO I ALWAYS STAY ON IT...I SURE TRY...ILL PROBABLY DIE TRYING!!!

[new-sojourn]

The health foresasters say that 'fatty liver' is the new disorder that millions will face due to widespread, long term obesity.  In other words, the liver is about to be come hip!

Next to our skin, the liver is the biggest organ in our body.  When a liver is malfunctioning, the toxins left in the body affect one mentally, emotionally, sexually and physically.

Well, one thing after you destroy your liver. @ least for me, is I get sick just entering a grocery store, nevermind a restaurant.  And I have so many dietary restrictions, I'm left w/simple healthful homecooked meals.

[cougareyes]

Good point; an ultrasound only shows textural type changes in the liver. It is not effective to diag stages of fibrosis/cirrohis. And yes when the liver gets to a cirrhotic state, textural changes does occur. And I can totally see how these textural differences could be conscrewed as fatty liver on an ultrasound.
I can see at your age they probably never considered you could have cirrohis. At your age I'm sure you're strong enough to beat this thing.  Good Luck

Goof if your bx showed no fatty liver, there's no way for it to show up that fast. I'll bet it is just as I stated above.  Peace

[GoofyDad]

Hey Strator. I remember you had a hard week coming up last week, & I don't think I remember seeing you on the board. How are you? Let us know.

[GoofyDad]

Dana,
My bx (June) showed little or no fatty liver. 2 weeks ago, a sonogram was read to be "suggestive of fatty liver". I'm curious whether the bx missed the fat, or whether the sonogram has mistaken my borderline stage 4 for fatty liver.

Since being on tx, I'm much more liberal with fat consumption than I would normally be. I would probably adjust if I thought I had FL.

Did your bx show FL, too? Are you on dietary restrictions?  

BTW, how are you holding up? I think you're a couple weeks ahead of me (I just started wk 5)?