Capitation-or denial of care

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060821/sfmv002.html?.v=4

I asked my GI today about a news story I posted the other day. He told me that the Muir group wants him and all GI

[GrandOak]

I just thank my lucky stars that we never got Hillary's National Health Care Plan put into place.

At least she made a bundle on the stock market by selling her stocks before anouncing her plan.  But hey, what makes that any different than Whitewater.

[Snookmiester]

Boy, that's just what I needed for a good laugh this morning!!! Canada? Ohhhh please, not the model we need to follow!!
Here's a little reading material.
<a href="http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/21/101350.shtml">Canadian healthcare</a>

If your interested, you can find numerous other articles just like this about the long waits for treatment, and the scarcity of Dr's..
The people of Canada are taxed somewhere in the range of 50% of their yearly income to pay for their system.. Their system isn't free, or socialized, YOU pay!! I pay enough in taxes right now for our current system, and the solution sure isn't to increase taxes, we need to make people answer for the current mismanagment of funds.

Just throwing my couple cents out there! LOL

[timedog]

all the countries in europe?

[cuteus]

In Sweden, most folks ride bycicles, even in inclement weather, so, they stay fit and keep the air clean at the same time. THey utilize public transportation often also.  This is the country many here keep quoting in studies...they must be doing something right.  Except, they have a high incidence of suicide in a particular age group, go figure.

[Mister beagle bailey]

Yes, and if you read the whole link that snook put on his post, the World Health Organization rated Europe as # 1 in health care.

Beagle

[Mister beagle bailey]

I wonder how the weather is in Sweden?  As there is a high suicide rate in Seattle, Wash because of the weather there.  It's alway raining or cloudy there and they have a high rate of SAD that leads to suicide.

Beagle

[Kalio1]

Lithuania looks like the worst spot in the world.

Highest Suicide Rates in the World
Rank Country Suicides per 100,000 inhabitants per year
1 Lithuania 42.0
2 Russia 37.4
3 Belarus 35.0
4 Latvia 34.3
5 Estonia 33.2
6 Hungary 32.1
7 Slovenia 30.9
8 Ukraine 29.4
9 Kazakhstan 28.7
10 Finland 24.3

[Mister beagle bailey]

Wonder if it's caused by weather? or what the cause of it is.  

Beagle

[cuteus]

I think if it gets brokendown by age, you see different countries emerge.  The young people seem to be most at risk, under 25, I believe.  Sweden has long dark days in the winter, that might contribute, but why mostly young people?
If we can break down by season, and age, how different will the results be?
\
btw, the taxes for their medical system come from income. As my daughter is telling me. She does not drive because it is costly to own a car and to get a driver's license.

[Kalio1]

Many countries in Northern Europe have extended dark days not just Sweden. Clearly Eastern Europe has the highest rates not Western Europe. Sweden didn't even make the list. I'd say economy has more to do with it than age.

[GoofyDad]

when we get rid of Bush,

I thought the riba had taken care of that for you, LOL....

[cuteus]

Sweden made number 18 on the list in the age group 15-24. Not the highest in the world, but still high enough for concern.  That is their next generation.

this site places the rates even higher:
the highest suicide rates are found in eastern Europe. On top is Lithuania (74.3 for men and 13.9 for women), Russia (69.3/11.9) and Belarus (63.3/10.3). After follows Kazakhstan, Estonia, Sri Lanka, Hungary, Slovenia, Ukraine and Latvia.

per latest figures of April 06.  It always makes me wonder how many of the first cause of death (accidents) were actually suicides?

[sfbaygirl]

Good Morning Team

I just woke up with butterflies roaming over my bed. Actually I dreamed about them to get to sleep last night. The Lunesta seems to work! I woke up for the normal runs to pee, but went back to sleep. This is good news. Now I'm gonna try the Provigal and see how it works. Hope I'm not anxious and alert. Anyone here take this drug before?

Talking about suicide rates I see. Capitation ought to do it for you. Healthcare here in the US sux. The richer you are, the better care you can get, if you pay for it. I really feel for all those that can't afford tx. My carpet guy? He can't afford it, even with the free meds.

[Kalio1]

I was told by a rep. at Schering that they are now giving the drugs to many counties around the US. Maybe with some checking he can find a oal county tht is participating. I know there are "free" clinics around the SF area and also the county might offer the are to go along with tx. I read in the paper that ALL are now "covered" in SF County, here's a link.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/14864194.htm

He might have to work to find it, but he is in a good area to be able to access care. According to this everyone is covered.

[mycoldfeet]

president hillary, oops I mean Clinton found out just how big the lobby is in the medical field, Its not Bush, Clinton or any other President at fault, we have billions and billions in fraud in medicare and medicaid, The Doctors want to charge what they think they are worth, the drug companies charge US citizens much, much more than third world countries, because they think we can afford it, then say research costs money, why our money? And the lobbyists for all these interests, they spend more money to keep things going as they are than the gross national product of some small countries. It's a shame but we do have the best healthcare in the world, if you can afford it. And if there is a change the president won't or can't do it, our Congress (the ones the lobbyist cater to) will have to. People give the President too much credit, he can sign into law what is passed by Congess or veto it, Most of the countries mentioned with free heath care has a queen and parlament, King, and some have presidents, I know one thing none of the healthcare community is going to take a paycut, If I had the answers, I'd write a book,then I could afford it.

[painterlady13]

LOL I was just in my healthcare administrator's (at work) office yesterday dealing with an issue similar to this. It seems they have decided that since I have been put on procrit and previously had 2 CT scans denied (in april),  now I need a health case manager from BC/BS.  Not exactly sure what this lady is supposed to be doing but now I have one.  I think work was blown away by the cost of the procrit.  My company pays for ins.... sort of, we are self insured, they pay all the cost of the actual services that the reg ins would pay for, including medication. They do get the Ins discounts that ins companies get for costs but still it is pretty much out of pocket.  
we went over all that has led up to this treatment and all that has happened in the last year.  between 2 surgeries and this DX since the first of the year, unfortunatly I am costing them more than they are getting out of me in work. The only good thing was that when all was said and done the "manager" said that she would love to have more patients like me that were on top of their treatment and were as knowledgable about what was happening to them and why.  

It made me feel good that I asked so many questions and that I found this place so I was able to answer some of the why and what led up to the current treatment.

[NYgirl]

My doctor is awesome...he let's me get any test that is reasonable.

I guess you have to find a doctor that cares more about you and your health than anything.  I got very lucky.

[NYgirl]

when we get rid of Bush,



hee hee


couldn't help it ( ;)  )

[cuteus]

capitation is nothing new, it has been part of managed care since its inception.

[Mister beagle bailey]

Debby, I see your at it again.  :) ;)  LOL

Anyway, Europe does have the best national health ins.  What Europe did is tax gas heavily, that's why they pay one of the highest gas pries in the world.  But the money is used for their nataional health plan and also to give every citizen a pension so they never have to worry about having money when they retire and everyones medical needs are taken care of.  Being Europe has many tourists they collect a lot of taxe to support their system.

Beagle

[sfbaygirl]

I'm not sure why he doesn't try and go to the county. According to our new asst. (his roomate) he is scared and thinks he's going to die. She also told me she had a friend whose son went on tx, couldn't take the sx and quit tx. He died. I understand the fear of not knowing what to do, especially if you are uninsured. He is also worried about working. After seeing me, no wonder he is afraid. I think I will have to call him.

Did you notice that the Daniel/Chevy thread is gone? Can someone request that a thread be removed?

[Kalio1]

I beg to differ. We do not have the "best health care in the world" at all, far from it. That is a myth. Our health care quality is below par compared to many other countries. We have the second WORST infant mortality rate i the WORLD!
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parenting/05/08/mothers.index/index.html

[Kalio1]

Probably the admin. removed it I would imagine. Creating fake illnesses and personas is probably against the rules here or so I would hope. I feel bad for those that offered spport to "daniel" None of us need that kind of ridiculous behavior. She's got her little pals here who are also involved and who feed her sick games so I am sure we haven't seen the end of that ****.

Your gardener/handyman has kids doesn't he? And a wife? A couple of good reasons to pursue tx. We know it is difficult, but the alternative is worse!

[sfbaygirl]

Jamie my carpet guy is married. His wife was just laid off, he doesn't have work now. I think he sure could qualify for assistance if he tried. I think he is scared.

If they are going to remove the one post from Daniel/Chevy, why don't they remove the other? This kind of **** makes it hard to trust you we are talking to around here. It's sad.

[pigeonca]

I'm on Kaiser (of Southern Cal, which is administered separately from the Kaiser up by you, but still the same outfit) and have found, despite so many people's complaints about them, that I've received every test I've ever asked for, at least regarding my other problems, which are diabetes and cutaneous scleroderma.  Sometimes I've had to push them a bit, but I've even had my dermatologist "slip in" a little cosmetic work by finding a medical excuse for it.  I've been a Kaiser patient for a quarter of a century, and yes, sometimes I've had to request a procedure several times before they caved in, but they have always caved in.  I'm told that Kaiser is run differently than any other HMO in that their doctors are salaried and therefore find no advantage in denying care because their paychecks remain the same.  However, I know about the transplant scandal in their Northern Cal operation, so maybe it's different where you live.

In the end, though, what we really need is a national health system like Canada's and hopefully, when we get rid of Bush, maybe our next government will do something about this country's scandalous health care system.  

Hope you're feeling well and receiving the care you need.

pigeon

[Snookmiester]

Here is some more reading material for those interested, or misinformed...

<a href="http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/9/184540.shtml">Infant Mortality</a>

This was written by a Dr.. The website that I keep refering too, is full of very interesting articles and topics.. I encourage all to explore, especially those leaning FAR left! LOL

[goldyn]

What happened to that thread what was going on , i know he was asking if he should treat or not he sounded sincere, did someone make him up for a reason...

[goldyn]

Thanks for letting me know, I didnt catch it, it must have happened later that night when I was tearing my house up looking for my dad gum high school diploma for work which i never found it what i did find was lot of dust and papers and too much junk, it got so bad towards the end i just kept screaming at everyone to look at this fricken mess, guess my procrit kicked in cause now im on a mission to make my family clean clean clean!!!!

[FlGuy]

In another, now invisible, thread I replied that it looked like the Dodgers may have some legs, but they need to take care of business with in NL West over the next 40 games.  Dealing with the Mets and the Cards may be another issue :)

[Snookmiester]

The article on infant mortality was written by:

Robert J. Cihak, M.D., is a Senior Fellow and Board Member of the Discovery Institute and a past president of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.


And to qoute one of your most favorable people,

"Turn your wounds into wisdom."
Oprah Winfrey

[Forseegood]

hey, too bad you didn't find that ole High School Diploma, cause it would of fit right in with the procedings, thematically speaking, ha ha! anyway, shine on Golden Girl...

You know, I do like baseball in theory, but in my heart of hearts, I enjoy watching Basket Ball and Football a bit better, even getting into soccer! and i'd rather see the all of them live then watch them on TV...the only games I can actually play is pool, chess, checkers and a little golf...ha ha ha!

[Kalio1]

LOL the "Disovery Institute" right. Like I'd believe a "doctor" who is associated with that place.


"The Discovery Institute is a conservative Christian think tank[1], structured as a non-profit educational foundation, founded in 1990 and based in Seattle, Washington, USA. Its areas of interest, social and political action include intelligent design, public school education, and transportation and bi-national cooperation in the international Cascadia region. Financially, the institute is a non-profit organization funded by philanthropic foundation grants, corporate and individual contributions and the dues of Institute members."

[Kalio1]

"At the foundation of most criticism of the Discovery Institute is the charge that the institute and its Center for Science and Culture intentionally misrepresent or omit many important facts in promoting their agenda. Intellectual dishonesty, in the form of misleading impressions created by the use of rhetoric, intentional ambiguity, and misrepresented evidence, form the foundation of most of the criticisms of the institute. It is alleged that its goal is to lead an unwary public to reach certain conclusions, and that many have been deceived as a result. Its critics, such as Eugenie Scott, Robert Pennock, Richard Dawkins and Barbara Forrest, claim that the Discovery Institute knowingly misquotes scientists and other experts, deceptively omits contextual text through ellipsis, and makes unsupported amplifications of relationships and credentials. A wide spectrum of critics level this charge; from educators, scientists and the Smithsonian Institute to individuals who oppose the teaching of creationism along science on ideological grounds. Specific objections with examples are listed at the Center for Science and Culture article.

This criticism is not limited to those in the scientific community that oppose the teaching of intelligent design and the suppression of evolution, but also includes former Discovery Institute donors. The Bullitt Foundation, which gave $10,000 in 2001 for transportation causes, withdrew all funding of the institute; its director, Denis Hayes, called the institute "the institutional love child of Ayn Rand and Jerry Falwell," and said, "I can think of no circumstances in which the Bullitt Foundation would fund anything at Discovery today."

The Templeton Foundation, who provided grants for conferences and courses to debate intelligent design, later asked intelligent design proponents to submit proposals for actual research, "They never came in," said Charles L. Harper Jr., senior vice president at the Templeton Foundation, who said that while he was skeptical from the beginning, other foundation officials were initially intrigued and later grew disillusioned. "From the point of view of rigor and intellectual seriousness, the intelligent design people don't come out very well in our world of scientific review," he said. [7]

The Templeton Foundation has since rejected the Discovery Institute's entreaties for more funding, Harper states. "They're political - that for us is problematic," and that while Discovery has "always claimed to be focused on the science," "what I see is much more focused on public policy, on public persuasion, on educational advocacy and so forth." [8]

Philip Gold, a former fellow who left in 2002, has criticized the institute for growing increasingly religious. "It evolved from a policy institute that had a religious focus to an organization whose primary mission is Christian conservatism," he has said.

The Wedge document, a widely circulated 1998 internal memo laid out Discovery's original, ambitious plan to "drive a wedge" into the heart of "scienti&#64257;c materialism," "thereby divorcing science from its purely observational and naturalistic methodology and reversing the deleterious effects of evolution on Western culture." Meyer says that the Wedge document "was stolen from our of&#64257;ces and placed on the Web without permission."[2] The central item of this agenda - establishing intelligent design as legitmate science through conducting actual scienti&#64257;c research - has not been achieved.[3]

Michelle Goldberg has once said "... the Center for Science and Culture takes creationism and tries to legitimize it in scientific terms, and make it sound as if it

[sfbaygirl]

Hey, how about those Giants? They didn't take but one game up here, but they are up for the wild card. If the butterflies in my brain go away, I may go to the game tonight.

[Forseegood]

Hey, that's an idea!!! We'll all fly in for the game and ask
Flguy to pick up the tab!!! You buyin Florida? ha ha ha!

Talking politics in middle age is the road to frustration!.

By your middle age you probably are pretty dang set in your opinions, so arguing politics with someone who is opposed to your views usually ends up in wasted screaming matches that get no where, they certainly don't change your opponents mind on things generally, well, not usually...

Let the teenagers and the twenty somethings hash it out, they are usually still open to new ideas, hopefully...they need to get unstuck to their ipods now and then ha ha, but theoretically...

I try to stay objective by listening to all sides of the issues by some really smart pundits, and sometimes I find out that there aren't any right or wrong answers, just a lot of shades in between...anyway, my opinion only...

Anyone want to listen to a really good radio show, with some of the smartest Democrat and Republican commentators hashing things out in a civilized way, listen to

Left, Right and Center  http://www.kcrw.com/show/lr

oddly enough, it's been responsible for me agreeing to the right of some issues, and that's sure not typical for me, died in the wool liberal that I am...anyway, in case anyone's interested....

[sfbaygirl]

So you have noticed this too? Them messy ol' kids get away with murder with their father in control. He can't tell if hair is combed, apple cores are layin' on the floor. They sure know when you're not feeling well they can leave all the messes they want. Drives me nutz to go downstairs after they have gone to school and find all the lights on, the frigerator open, tv on, milk, food everywhere! They hate it when I feel good! LOL