Geographic Tongue due to TX

For about the last 3 months more or less I have had a sore tongue; it has an inflamed and irritated red splotchy area in the center surrounded by whitish grayish areas.  Some days the difference in color between the 2 areas is very pronounced.  There are also deep fissures in the tongue.

I find it is aggravated by several foods or liquids such as sugar or acid or spices, pineapple, citrus fruit.  It also reacts badly to minty toothpastes and mouthwashes.  Heated food also aggravates it and I have to eat most of my food lukewarm now. Sometimes it hurts so badly I can barely talk...

At first I thought it was an oral thrush or Candida infection but as I had it before I started taking the antibiotics I don't think it is, and it doesn't match the images I have found on the net, which, btw, are revolting.  Then I thought it might be oral lichen planus but after researching that it doesn't have the same appearance either.

Yesterday I discovered a condition known as Geographic Tongue (yeah yeah I know, the mental imagery is great!) and it seems to have a lot of similarities to what I am experiencing.  Another name for it is Benign Migratory Glossitis.

From Wikipedia:

Glossitis is inflammation or infection of the tongue. It causes the tongue to swell and change color. Finger-like projections on the surface of the tongue (papillae) may be lost, causing the tongue to appear smooth.  Tongue color changes (usually dark "beefy" red).

Some Causes:

Poor hydration and low saliva in the mouth may allow bacteria to grow more readily.
Disorders such as iron deficiency anemia, pernicious anemia and other B-vitamin deficiencies.

Here's a few links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossitis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_tongue
http://dermnetnz.org/site-age-specific/geographic-tongue.html (be warned these images are not pretty)

Anyway, question is:  Anyone else suffering from this?  Any hints or experiences to share?

Thanks in advance,

Epi :))

[Rockerforlife]

do not use commerical toothpastes...use a good one with no chemicials

[Rockerforlife]

try rinsing your mouth with a few drops of stevia extract in water...also try tee tree oil.....

[epiphiny]

Ok, can do the stevia idea but the tea tree oil scares the bejesses out of me!  That stings like all heII, i think I might pass out from the pain!

[Rockerforlife]

i use this

http://www.natures-gate.com/shop/showitem.asp?ProductId=46100152&menuId=152&withLinks=1

[Marcia2202]

I had this many many years ago after having been sick with a high fever. It was quite painful and even eating soft foods, felt like someone was scraping my raw tongue. It went away by itself. I guess it had not gotten to the infected stage.

If I had it now, I would start with stevia. One drop neat in the mouth, many times a day. You might want to start with a diluted version, like Ron suggested. But I personally take it neat in the mouth.

Good luck my friend.

Marcia

[Rockerforlife]

Stevia is another produst the FDA dont want us to know about

[Rockerforlife]

i just found some professional papers from PUB MED on the scientific benefits of raw caco....it truly is an amazing food



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15755830?dopt=Abstract

[Rockerforlife]

Did you know that if you sell raw coca and you list on the pagake it can cure certain illneses...they will lock you up?

[evangelin]

Search the web for something called burning mouth syndrome (might be burning tongue syndrome)  There are quite a few people with symptoms like this and I'm one of them.  When I first got it, it lasted about a year and a half with no relief.  Since that time, it comes and goes.  We may not be talking about the same thing but I thought I'd throw this out in case it is.
All the things you listed as antagonistic to it are the similar for me.  I have found that going from a hot food or drink, straight to a cold or vica versa,can trigger it. Candy that has that sweet/sour taste and chewable vitamin c will get it going also.(ascorbic acid)
Sometimes my tongue is swollen and it makes my teeth rub against  it when I talk which makes it really sore.  I have found some relief from holding a cold liquid in my mouth or sucking on ice.  I think it just diminishes some of the swelling.  I also get relief from sugarless gum in my mouth. When I researched this topic,quite a long time ago now, they were thinking it has something to do with nerve damage of some sort and the relief when gum or something is in your mouth is because the nerves sending pain signals , are then busy sending taste messages to the brain.  I hope you have something easily cured and not chronic like this , but I thought I'd send this anyway just in case.
Ev

[Rockerforlife]

Definition
Geographic tongue is a harmless (benign) oral condition that gives your tongue a map-like, or geographic, appearance. The distinct look of geographic tongue occurs when parts of your tongue are missing the layer of small bumps called papillae. This causes irregularly shaped smooth, red patches to form on parts of your tongue, like a rash.

Although geographic tongue may look alarming, it doesn't cause any health problems and isn't associated with infection or cancer. Geographic tongue is usually painless but can sometimes cause tongue discomfort and increased sensitivity to certain substances. Geographic tongue often heals in one area and then moves (migrates) to a different part of your tongue. Geographic tongue is also known as benign migratory glossitis.




http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/geographic-tongue/DS00819

[Rockerforlife]

Causes
Small bumps called papillae normally cover your tongue's upper surface. Geographic tongue results from the loss of papillae on some parts of your tongue. But why your tongue loses papillae isn't known. The condition tends to run in families, so genetics may play a role.

[Rockerforlife]

use a natural toothpaste...you will notice a difference

[epiphiny]

Evangelin: thanks for the info; I googled it as suggested and came back with this from Wikipedia:

"Glossodynia or burning mouth syndrome (BMS) is a condition characterized by a burning or tingling sensation on the lips, tongue, or entire mouth.

Typically, there are no visual signs like discoloration that help the diagnosis"

As there is distinct discoloration I don't think it is BMS but I'm not ruling it out completely as I did come across this on the same page which I thought was fascinating given what Rocker has been posting:

"One cause of burning mouth syndrome and associated disorders is the foaming agent in many toothpastes, sodium lauryl sulfate, a surfactant commonly used in household products. There are now several toothpastes on the market specifically without this additive."

I have already ruled SLS out of my hair care regime because it irritates my scalp since starting tx so why wouldn't it irritate my mouth as well?!

The other thing that I discovered in my internet trawl is that when one has GT one should not rinse with Hydrogen Peroxide mouthwashes as the HP reacts with the fluorine in water and or toothpaste creating an acid that burns the tongue!!

Guess who rinsed her mouth on Saturday night with HP mouthwash that made her cry and couldn't talk properly the next day?!

Yup, you got it, ME!!  A genius, indeed!

Anyway, I am going to avoid all the foods and liquids that aggravate, try the stevia, and rinse my mouth with acidopholous yogurt as well as continue to take the potent Lactic Acid Bacteria that I got the other day, plus sips of water more often rather than guzzle water down at hourly intervals.

I will overcome!!

[epiphiny]

Hey, thanks for all the hard work you put in on my behalf!  

I have a natural toothpaste so will let you know how I go.  I just don't like the taste but maybe it will be ok now as the last time I tried it was about 4 months ago BEFORE I got this funny tongue thing.

I am so looking forward to ending tx.  It's not the IFN or Riba in themselves that cause the most discomfort during tx rather it's the associated conditions those drugs cause.

We are the brave!!

[granitekonig]

I have a geographic tongue....sometimes. I've had it all my life and it comes and goes. No burning. No discomfort. Just looks like taste buds are missing in thin strips along the sides. Looks wierd sometimes. Most of the time you can't tell unless you look closely.

My doctor noticed it during my checkup and said it's just a genetic thing and nothing to be worried about. Natural toothpaste and a good rinse without alcohol will limit it occurence. For me, it's purely aesthetic. Chrest makes a good mouthwash without alcohol, but I prefer Listerine.

[nygirl7]

This problem has nothing to do with fevers or colds or viruses most likely.  The interferon itself causes it.  I had it for most of the 72 weeks and it was one of the most painful things I"ve ever gone through.

When I went to see Dr. Jacobson in NYC I asked him about it.  He said that it was caused by the inf and that some patients have gotten it so bad that they have had to stop treatment.


While I couldn't do anything that would help it go away (some people insist magic mouthwash is marvelous) I can give you SOME good news..........a week after I stopped the interferon it was gone for good.  The end.

Hang in there...........it will go as soon as your finished!

[karaszt]

Yep, I had that. It lasted about 2 months, then went away. It was soon replaced by red, blotchy ankles. Lately, the bottoms of my feet have been realy hurting, which is really a drag because I'm still recovering from a ruptured achilles tendon. Chills, sore musles, I love this stuff! When my eye balls start to bleed I quit. Hopefully your tongue will feel better soon.

[CoWriter]

Mucous membranes, especially the area under the tongue can absorb alcohol.  I'd get rid of the Listerine.  Granted, it would be a small amount but why risk it, especially if you're on treatment.

Co  

[Deb_c430]

with NY & Evagenline  here, I have had everytime I have treated,   found clean mouth, yogurt and being careful of acid in foods, When I eat a lot of fruit it seems to get worse.


It will go away,  hurts though

[sunshine585]

Lichen planus, is also a common cause of mouthsores with hcv tx. It can also affect your skin. Initially thats what my nurse thought I had, but it turned out to be a bad case of thrush. Sorry I don't know much about it, but you can google it. Hope you find relief before it gets any worse.

[Deb_c430]

That is how I discovered I had HCV! I got in on my shin and right hip, drove me nuts, Dermatologist did so many tests,  Ended up with a postive  HCV.  I freaked!  

My mouth doesn't look like that!  I just get little bumps.    Crazy all weird little things that can happen!

[epiphiny]

Thanks for your input.  It's really comforting to know that I'm not the only one suffering from this and that it will pass.  Bless you all!!

Am taking on board all the suggestions and avoided eating pineapple last night (I had been eating pineapple as a little treat after dinner of late) which has already improved things.  Also trying to to keep my mouth well irrigated.

And I can really understand why someone would want to stop treatment if they couldn't get relief from it.

Thanks again!!

[Rockerforlife]

Pinapple?....that is a very acidic food...even i have hard time eating that stuff...and my mouth is pretty tough...take er easy on the fruits too

[Mr Liver]

I've been there and it is absolutely no fun and the pain can be intense. I didn't eat Italian or Mexican for the whole year. You may want to try Biotene toothpaste and mouthwash . Antibiotics may help speed the healing process some. There are topical agents (lidocaine gel, for example) that can be applied right before eating if it is painful to chew and swallow. Hope this info helps.
ML