Please help I do not know what to think

[athena99]

I had a recent emergency hospital visit as I thought I was having chest pain. Pains in the middle of my chest,numb arm, etc. Turns out my liver enzymes were elevated. I had been having lots of other symptoms too, they ran the usual hep. tests and sent me home to await the my reg.doc to call. My liver enzyme tests were so high he was totally expecting hep. But all tests were negative, he did my history which includes some binge drinking but no consistent prob. I use tylenol as a pain reliever but not to excess, never over dosage. I am still feeling unwell and my right side feels bloated all the time, no signs of jaundice, just a lot of tiredness,nausea and dizziness. What could be going on I am not sure how many liver tests there are 4 or 5 but all but one of my tests was highly elevated. I am just all around feeling awful if you could help I would truly appreciate it. I was diagnosed with fibro about 4 years back but now I am beginning to wonder if it might be liver troubles. There have also been lots of other symptoms over the years that no one can explain. Gastro bleeding, etc. Too much to go into.

Thanks

Val

[annainitaly]

hi val,

has your doc inquired only for A, B or C hepatitis or has he/she considered also the autoimmune possibility?  that requires specific antibodies tests like AMA EMA ENA and others. gastro bleeding could suggest a crohn's disease (???) maybe. have you had an endoscopy ?
I was negative for viral hepatitis but they eventually found out that I have autoimmune problems and all started from elevated liver test values.
hope  this helps. most of all, I wish you will feel better soon and find out what you need.
let us know please
anna

[athena99]

Hi anna thank you for your quick respone auto immune tests done 4 years ago included ana(neg)rheumatoid factor(positive). I forgot to mention I am heading for an ultrasound soon. I will let you know what they say.

Thanks again

val

[snook_man]

Welcome.. Can not really help you without knowing the exact tests they ran on you. But wish you the best, regardless..
Hey, word of advice for you though.. Don't argue with anyone, don't express free thought, and just nod your head and follow the pack.. If not, you get edited, and outcast.. Heads up!!!!

[MS_Vicki]

Snooks: thaT HAS certainly been the case & driven many away
(Over & Over again)...

However... Lets not all forget ...
that regardless of the few "bad-apples"
That all of our hearts are suppossedly in the right place!!!

To the new ones... a little advise:

Do NOT Believe everyting you read within this forum...
There are many "OLD-Timers".. That are more than willing to help.... but you have to realize & accept that they are from a different generation of theories & drugs!!!!

Yes their "BASIC" advice is good!!!

pLEASE USE THIS FORUM AS A BASIS OF COMPARISONS only!!!!

[DH Bill]

I have never liked how the owners of this site have deleted threads but they own it. This time I was suprised at how quick it was done and shows how biased they and some of you are. It so smacks of sour grapes in reference to politics.

I know this will **** off some of you but this is how I feel. HCV affects all of us no matter what our political affiliation is and if any of you really think about it no party has really done much to help us or anyone in our situation and I don't see that changing no matter who is in power.

I have been to hell and back and I'm starting my life over again at 55 years old. I'm growing my balls back and find I no longer have the time or patience for such short sightend bullshit attitudes that were shown in the missing threads.

So many of you complained about a persons opinion but failed to realise how much your response expressed yours. Is that fair and was it fair to delete that thread??????????????????????

[annainitaly]

obviously I missed it… time zones must have played a role in that.

I can GUESS of course, but having not seen it:
what happened (if I can ask)?

[DRAGON SLAYER]

A LETTER for RECONCILIATION

To: Cindy, Phil & whomever it may concern,

This forum has become highly censored & placed under strict supervision by its owners. Although, I personally disagree with their approach in a patient-to-patient ADULT forum....it's their DOMAIN. I still plan to help other heppers or their families.....however, I don't think forum MEMBERS should undergo such SCRUTINY. I feel this forum should be a place for FUN, CHATS, GOSSIP (as in the past)...etc, etc. as well as an EXCHANGE of our KNOWLEDGE.... all of which are CRUCIAL ingredients in a speedy RECOVERY of patients afflicted by serious illnesses.
I think that POINT has been missed by the owners & I hope that my comments or this thread will not be erased & that REASON & common sense will prevail.

Good luck to ALL,
Ben

[new-sojourn]

What the h*** are you talkin' about?  What generation are you?  What drugs are you talkin' about?  And what theories about what drugs?  Drugs to kill or drugs to thrill??  The Big Bang theory or the Little whimper theory? (whoops, that's not political.  I wasn't talkin' about Bush.)

Talkin''bout my generation?!  Maybe if I knew yours, I would know what the h*** you're talkin' about!

[Indiana]

Hahahahahaha  
The only folks ever driven away from here were driven away by other Forum members...or by themselves prompted by their own imagined problems.
This place remains the best source of information and advice I have seen. Thats why even those who have left keep comming back.
They state the rules very clearly. They aren't hard to understand. We all break rules sometimes. A little censorship isn't all that bad if it keeps this place from deteriorating into a slug fest and getting shut down again to regain control....like it was before. Not everyone always acts like an "adult" here. Me included.
The drugs we have to take to combat this disease can cause many TEMPORARY mental problems. It's not surprising that things can get out of control.
Removing the problem posts is the easiest way to "fix" that problem before it gets out of hand.  
I applaud Cindy and Phil for their efforts to keep this a friendly place of inspiration, information, and support.

[DH Bill]

How many weeks did it take to delete someone like thanby who was harmful to this forum, but let someone do a little victory dance and have people come unglued and erase a thread just shows how political it was, rediculous!

[MS_Vicki]

LoL... Your post cracked me up...

I'm a late "Baby-Boomer"... of-course there is always that fine line of when the "X-Generation" actually began!

I certainly can't talk about legalizing marijuana for medical purposes, & how some of those votes went,,,, cause that would be political!

As far as the rest goes...

(HCV DRUGS Generations are what I was referring to)

Just babbling of-course... However, it seems when the old drugs for HCV originally came out... (the ones where they had to inject 3 times a week)... that folks were affected with more sever side effects than the folks on these new drugs.... & yes some folks still get sides even now... but it seems that the new drugs are more tolerable, a manageable by the majority....

Maybe because these drugs effected the previous generation in a more drastic way... & possibly effected them more mentally, or severely in general... that they just assume that it effects everyone else as drastically as it did themselves... & it's just not the case!

Fact is... there is soo much about HCV yet to be discovered... Medical Technology is ever changing!

This site helped me immensely, & was a teriffic source of info, & guidance... but I had to learn to use it as a guidline, that would in turn prompt me for absolute verifications from my health care provider!

Seems individuality is playing a more key role than standards!
:)

[Indiana]

I can see how it might look that way using that comparison. But back then posts weren't deleted and we were all pretty much left to sort things out ourselves. I'm sure you remember how well THAT worked.....Not. Things got completely out of control. Since then they have benn called upon by some to monitor at times and asked by some to delete their own posts completely from all threads. I'm sure it's like babysitting a bunch of kids for them sometimes.
Beyond the normal rules of civil behaviour, they have only asked us to refrain from discussing politics and religon. I'm sure you can understand why as those subjects can only be mostly personal opinion and usually deteriorate into an arguement.
Wether we agree with their methods or not, this appears to be something we have to live with to participate in this HCV forum. I don't have a problem with it.
I think that whole thread got deleted more because the whole title was political. I would think that the occasional comment might be tolerated but not a whole thread.
Ah well....we can always post out politics over at the other site if we want to.

[DH Bill]

Indy, me thinks I'm getting ornery now that my energy is returning

Rev, are you dipping into left over peg knowing how much you loved the stuff

[Tallblonde]

Quite frankly, I'm proud to be one of those "fundamentalist psychos" from Ohio!  It's too bad that we're dismissed as stupid and/or mentally ill.  Oh well, at least there are plenty of other stupid, deranged people in my neck of the woods to keep me company for the next four years.  

Snook -- you should visit us in Ohio sometime.  You'd certainly be among friends.

Susan

[cuteus]

when I lived in Ohio, there was a corny ad going around on Tv:
it showed an Indian saying "Ohio, the heart of it all!" I can't remember if that was the one where the indian was crying from the environmental destruction of the state or if that one was a different ad. It was kind of funny to see a "rep" of an extinct race by the 'christianity ministry' endorse the state. the crying indian is more fitting.
Ohio was not a friendly place when I lived there, must have been a gut feeling I had...back in the 80's.  
This is my personal impression.

[Tallblonde]

I was tempted to mildly chastise you for judging the entire state of Ohio based on limited exposure, but then I remembered the year I spent in Salt Lake City.  Wasn't my cup of tea, either, and I couldn't wait to get out of of there!

Nevertheless, I can't help but wonder what the crying Indian would think of gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, and abortion. I'm quite certain he'd have tears rolling down both cheeks!

Susan

[cuteus]

and to top it all; I got my only speeding ticket, there and on thanksgiving day.  the family court was the topping nightmare...
only fond memories I have are of the amusement parks, best I've seen, and I will travel over to have fun with a friend next year.

as for the last comment...wont continue the debate, not here.

[new-sojourn]

tall bl--that's political-the 4 yrs etc-by the new standards.

Ms Vic--you certainly can talk about the medical marijuanna issues on this forum.  I'm a medical marijuanna user for life since hepatitis c is considered  a 'qualifier' b/'incurable'.  I could never have gone thru tx 2 1/2 yrs ago w/o med marijuanna.  And, i might add, I couldn't cope w/living and dying w/ESLD-end stage liver disease-w/o some AD and pot hits the spot!

  I did 3 shots wkly, 24wks, w/the S-P pen and 1800 units riba.  And cl'd a 1967 transfused infection in 18 days.  B/ I was dx after my liver failed, so the damage is considered permanent and once a liver's decomp'd, it can't 're-comp'.  think i need a joint just thinkin' about it!

I was pleased to see that even that "red 'neck'" state of Montana legalized medical marijuanna.  That's 13 so far, all b/ 2 'out west'.  See red necks and hippies can get along just fine since in essence, we've all dropped out anyway.

[Tallblonde]

....I'm also quite certain that the crying Indiana would understand the concept of fiercely fighting an enermy that threatens your way of life and your very existence.

Susan

[Tallblonde]

Ahhhhh....we do agree on that.  Cedar Point has the best roller coasters in the world!

Susan

[Tallblonde]

I mean "Indian" .... not "Indiana" in my prior post.  I know that our dear Indiana isn't crying!!

Susan

[Tallblonde]

I'm glad your mother didn't have an abortion.  We would have missed out on so much if you weren't here!  The board wouldn't be the same without you!

Have a great weekend, Scott.

Susan

[cuteus]

as many times as I've read your ordeal with hcv, I don't think i noticed you took 1800 MG OF RIBA!!!! holy tamale! 1000 has been a killer for me...jeez! if I wore  a hat, I would tip it to you.

[cuteus]

YOU did not pass enough flyers out! especially in Wisconsin.
yup...your bad.

[snook_man]

Why is it exceptable to bash Bush, but congratulate the victory, and get threatened to be outcast??

If the underlying reason this board exists, is for support, why do we not offer it to everyone?? Why is ones opinions and views pushed away, or biasly ridiculed??

The ranting loonacy of the sick warped minded individual called "Revenire", should be erased.. Or even the thread below, where a few others comment on how sx's are possibly due to the election outcome.. If politics are not allowed, make it equal across the board, and erase them all.

If liberalism, and anti-american propaganda and hatred are exceptable means of expression, post it in the disclosure!! Say right off the bat, THIS IS A LIBERAL ONLY FORUM!!!

This forum is about support, and to overlook that for the simple fact that someone holds a different view, or religion, is IGNORANT, and HATEFUL!!! People have differences, and being able to express them is what this country is all about. If we are sensored for sharing our view about possibly the most important election in all of our life times, what is next?? Why not just brainwash us and tape our mouths!!!

There is a difference in the morals and ethics of the American people, and it was so very openly evident yesterday.. Some are ignorant and hold grudges towards someone who holds a different perspective or view, and some are excepting and understanding to all.. I for one, hold no grudges, and offer support to all. I listen to all views, except every opinion, and interpret it for whats its worth, regardless of the source or political stance.

I RESPECT what any person has to say, and RESPECT how they feel about it. Why is it so hard to show the same respect to others?? Why has our country become so divided?? How can we mend other nations, when we are at war with ourselves??

Now there is a thought for the day!!

[cuteus]

am I the only one lost in the corn maze here?   I am still ambling about some of these posts....oh well

[Tallblonde]

Wait a minute....are we throwing Indiana under the bus? Yikes..I can't believe it!  He's been such a source of inspiration and support to so many here -- men included.  Are you saying that's all a rouse to pick up women?  

This sort of public lynching of one of our most devoted members seems way out of line to me.  I'm totally confused.

Susan

[cuteus]

same corn maze?
I guess you just never know anything for sure in the anonimity of the cyberworld.

[snook_man]

I was completely unaware of the underlying deception.. And I am mad, and it should not be allowed..My god, and I wasn't even invited!!!!

But what I am also aware of, is your ill intentions that you made towards my tx.. That should also not be allowed.. I only wish someone was as outspoken towards that injustice as you are towards Indy..Regardless of differences in opinion, we are both suffering from a disease that we should not have.. A disease that we are already pissed off for having, and a disease that is trying its best to bring us down.. Why must we battle among each other?? Why must ones opinion be held so strongly against him, that his need for support be overlooked??
Is this not also deceptive? Should this issue also not be addressed?
I am calling you out.. Be a man, and respond..Regardless of whether or not you agree with my political views, show me the respect you so cold heartedly ripped from my torso.
The election is history, we must ALL move forward. Are you willing to embrace the other side, or turn your cheek?

[Califia]

Yeah, I agree with Susan.  This is becoming a public lynching.  And as a great admirer of the American legal system,  I hold that everyone is held innocent until PROVEN guilty.    If, gawd forbid, charges like this do need to be thrown around, then more than a little verifiable proof needs to be offered.   It's only right and fair, especially when all of us readers are being recruited to sit on the jury.

[Nann]

  #1 "I am hunbled by your trust..." Nov. 3, 2004 G.W.Bush
     "I earned political capital and I plan to spend it..."Nov.4,2004 G.W.Bush
     "Does anyone know anything about passive agressiveness?"
     Me--Sami, Nov.5,2004

   #2 The war which Bush started in Iraq costs $1 billion a week at this time. How much is given a week for research on HCV?  We have terrorism in our midst from an unrelenting disease that was passed in the blood supply, unsuspected poor hygiene, sharing needles, and who knows what else. There has been death, upheaval in lives around the world, danger to newborns whose lives will never be normal and unaccountable financial expense for treatments many of which do not work. Tell me sincerely--is that moral?
   #3 Did you know that in the the 130 to l50 degree heat of the summer in Iraq, our troops in most areas were limited to two bottles of drinking water a day?
      Did you know that in April when the U.S. Army abruptly extended the tours of duty for l7,000 soldiers that there was not enough food because the new troops had arrived and they couldn't feed all of them?  Did you know that they took packaged food from warehouses where they had been sitting for a year and distributed them to bases around the country--the result--massive food poisoning among soldiers being sent off to places like Najaf.
      And this is Halliburton--making millions.
      Tell me--is that moral?
   #4 Iraq--America's children are being exploded into smithereens by explosives--of which there is no end--because 380 million tons were made off with by the Iraq insurgents from the unguarded warehouses. These are our kin who have been abandoned  because it is better, apparently, to wail about abortion than to stand up for our own who are losing their futures.  Tell me with all the insight you can muster--is that moral?
   The term "holier than thou" has new meaning. I can see favoring one person over another--but really--don't ever say it is because of moral values. God does not want his children--sick, well, old, young, gay, straight, right wingers, left wingers  in this mess. "Blessed are the peacemakers..."--you finish it, if you know it.      
Just wanted to get that out.
Samantha

[MS_Vicki]

Holy Cow....

I feel like I can Finally BREATHE Again!

Now that you have mentioned it....  maybe folks will listen to what they don't want to hear!!!

This was brought up long ago by me, but nobody wanted to hear it...Thus I was attacked for it... Then his games, & influence over you at a vulnerable time began till I was pretty much Mud around here, & is one of the main reasons I left here!!!!

Chev, I am soo sorry this happened to you too.... but my God... I knew All along that it was & I was so frustrated cause you refused to see it!!

Hell what took you so long to figure it out... do you even know that your exact words are almost identical to my very own staements from long ago... & that this particular issue has been the VERY SOURCE of the problems between us. We should Sue him for all the pain & suffering that we have both endured????

Gezzz... I think I Luv You.... thank-you for your post... & yet once again verifing that I sure didn't make the **** up! It's unfortunate that this common nuisance... created so many problems for us!!!

All I could ever do was WARN folks.... It's out there gals... play with this sick man at your own risk!!!

Chev... I think Now might be a good time for you to contact me.... If you are seeking legal council... I will be more than happy to join you on that list & provide you with more info!
:)

[MS_Vicki]

You were one of the ones being toyed with & you didn't even know it... it was openly bragged about by him... & was one of his proudest games..... I tried to tell ya.... but that got back fired too!!!!


So when I couldn't post that stuff here anymore... I went to HotHeps & Posted It... & He Had Me Banned from there....

Only place & Only time I have ever been banned from anywhere!!!

[Tallblonde]

Huh?  Indiana was "toying" with me and I didn't even know it?  Wow, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  Seriously.  The few direct interactions I've had with Indiana on this board have ALWAYS been related to HCV issues.  And I have no recollection of you ever "warning" me about him.

Are you sure you're not mixing me up with someone else?

Susan

[Tallblonde]

Overlooking what?  I've never personally witnessed, nor have I been the victim of, the crimes that you, Chevy and Vicky claim have been perpetrated.  You and Vicky should follow Chevy's example and cease using this forum for a public lynching.  

Susan

[Tallblonde]

You're whacked.

[aaapattie]

Sorry this thread got going on stupid stuff and forgot you ... Back to you ... Have you went over to the Rheumatoid Forum and described your symptoms to see if those guys recognize them?  The positive RA test 4 years ago has me thinking down those lines for you.  If RA hits your sternum you DO feel like you are having a heart attack.  Been there, done that!  Wish you luck and God bless.
P.

[Califia]

Holy sh*t.

It took real courage to testify like that.   This is all coming as quite a shock.

[MS_Vicki]

Athana99...
Sorry, these things happen sometimes, at least it doesn't happen as often as it used to, & they do seem to have opened up the amount of post allowed on each thread again! It's not intentional.. I promise... I don't have an answer or I would have addressed it!

Scott...
You're Not Whacked, & I personally Thank-You for caring!

TallBlonde...
This deserves no responce, & no.. I Know for a fact that you were not a victim of this particular scenero... You & Thanby were merely toyed with because of the Anti-TX stuff going on at the time... & his game was triggering responces from ya'll....
That was What was bragged about... & the comments made were "that once you get em mad... you can control them!" Just wanted to CLEAR that up.. I do I wish to have any debate nor discusss this any further!

Chev...
I just feel such an overwhelming sense of peace now that this has been resolved.
You really have no idea what that alone means to me!

Awareness is the issue.. not lynching!

So it's been put out there yet once again, the red flag is waving... people can choose to do whatever they want with the info...All I know is what happened to me, & that Your story runs parallel to mine, & do not feel that is a coincidence... more like a pattern!

I just want to Thank-You for your honesty, & apologize for all the indifferences that we have had due to this mess... I just can't tell you how many buckets of tears have been shed, it was just devastating!!!However, at least tonights tears were ones of Relief!!!

I won't upset anybody by going on anything further,
you gave me the biggest gift of all... My Sanity Back, that I felt literally Robbed of!!!!
Thank-You, Thank-You, Thank-You!!!

All=
Sorry... but unless you lived thru it... you have no way of understanding it... I apologize for the temporary imposition.. but if even one person actually listens or was helped by any of this... then it was all worth while!!!

New-Sojourn=
Ahhhh... I gotta have a little fun with this....<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~robtat/medicinalmj.gif">Click This</a> LoL (hope my link worked)

Califia=
I know it's hard to swallow... but avoiding facts cause we don't want to hear them doesn't make it go away!
:(

[new-sojourn]

guess i needed that joint!  I blame everything on heptic encephalopathy now.  no one knows what it is so assume if I can spell it, i must know what it is and if I have it.  And of course no one can prove otherwise.  just a little heptic humor @ work!

[snook_man]

Under all the rambling, and all the loonacy, there is a good guy.. Just so you know, I have never held a grudge against you, and have tried to befriend you many times.. Regardless of our differences, we are alike in the fact that we battle the same beast, HCV.. You, successful, me attempting.. I know it was hard to respond, as stubborn as you are, but I appreciate it. We still aren't letting you drive the bus though??

[Honey15637]

haha  Who is the driver then,,,,Looks like we are losing them fast...

[annainitaly]

SNOOK
"How can we mend other nations, when we are at war with ourselves??"

snook believe me, I am GRATEFUL for what your nation has done for mine and for europe in WW II but I pray my good luck that it will not "mend" around here now.

CALIFIA
I cannot admire a legal system where death sentence is a common practice.

I needed to say this.
with my unmodified esteem for you.
anna

[derail]

Well what a tangled web we weave
During discussions Emails with several of the peole here, I heard rumors about severalof these issues and a whole lot of slandering and character assassination. Generally, I chalked these references up to the ramblings of the riba and delusions due to tx.Wow. to do this intentionally to harm someone on tx is tantamount to rape.People on tx can be unsure,confused and generally F*****d up thru these meds.
  This harkens back to what our parents said beware of strangers
That being said, I hope my flirting with any of the Ladies here has not been inappropriate, nor my asking for all those pix (except Ameribrit's) were taken to be serious
If my comments seemed to be wrong to some then I apologize for the misunderstanding.I'm sure ringading will ensure that my motives are purely honest and I do constantly  joke and tease but when appropriate I am  very serious as well. She ,I and my Judy spent a weekend together recently.And while it is nice to meet someone from the "web" it can be very dangerous ,as circumstances here attest.
SO ,if any do choose to meet, take precautions; let someone else know where you are, who you are seing and get some offline info  I.E.  phone numbers, addresses etc, cuase lets face it people ;you never know.Remember   forewarned is forearmed

peace and love to all    Daryl

[Sam Hall]

Rev pleas mail me at ***@**** i want to talk to give you my proper address.
As for the rest of this politics bit I am sick to death of what i am hearing again and again. Listen and please all you descetn Americans turn away. In europe we have a place,not a museum,and it's called AUSWITCH. I expect you will have heard of it. Well it or the part known as BIRKENAU and a few other places SOBOBOR , TREBLINKA etc are the culmination of the acts of those who believe that thiers is the ONLY way. They flew flags and saluted and marched and at the begining it all looked so positive and truthful. Well i tell you that is where you are heading. You already have a Biblical enemy, you allready ingnore international LAW,imprison people in contravention of the Genevha Convention, you have killed 100,000 Iraqis mainly women and children. You have invaded Afghanistan.
In TREBLINKA there was a path along which the Ukrainian gaurds whipped the naked prisoners to the chambers. It was known as the "Path to Heaven" and on the freezing nights the skin would be torn from the childrens bare feet as thier mothers lifted them and ran.
Your not there yet but the ingredients are in place and i wonder how your flag waving fanaticism and military bullying will look in 60 years time. It all sounds immpossible eh? but so did Vietnam Cambodia Rawanda and so on and so on. Remember who is the only country to use nuclear weapons in anger.
You wont sign up to the Kyoto agreement and obviously dont give two ****s about the environment.Get on with itI
SHall

[Califia]

Never was a thread more truly labeled.  

[Amerabrit]

I am so terribly sorry you have had to weather such a betrayal of trust..  This is so sad to read..  Thank you for your courage to speak up and warn others of your experiences; that takes courage.  I, too believe in innocent until proven guilty, however, I've been reading your posts for quite a while now and also those of the alleged offender and I feel no hesitation in offering you my support and encouragement.  Chevy, do whatever you need to do in order to stop these violations of trust and abuse of friendship - exploitation of those on tx is heinous..  Take care of yourself..
Kind regards,
Amerabrit.

[Amerabrit]

My heartfelt sympathies go out to you and anyone else affected by the alleged abuser.  Collectively, your courage to speak out will get this situation resolved, one way or another.
Kindest reagrds to all.

[Amerabrit]

Thank you both for your support of the abused women on this forum..  

Daryl, don't even think of comparing yourself to the alleged offender - I have never, ever felt uncomfortable with any of your posts, you're a nice man with a funny sense of humour and kind to everyone:).

[Sam Hall]

The Indy thing. I got caught to. I was shown/sent excerpts of e-mails that he was storing. It was never really easy to know what was what but i, out of simple trust, sent a pic of me and my two girls and new the second i clicked on send i had made a mistake.
When he disapeared he said he was going to lurk or use other names i think. I did not ralize the extent to which he was operating but am not in any way suprised just sorry to hear it got that bad for some of the women involved.
SAM

[Califia]

What a stunner.   Boy Scout troop leader, indeed.  Isn't this the very organization that self-righteously bans gays from its ranks because it equates homosexuals with sexual predators?  

And re Rev's comments about Indy's poor wife, I am also remembering Newt Ginrich's divorcing his wife as she was undergoing chemotherapy.   What a moral lot they are.   Family values:  leave my loved ones out of it.

[MS_Vicki]

I just hope this better explains some of the unknown riddles, & to those of you that really did not know what was going on behind the scenes... I am sure it was over-whelming & confusing!

I hold no animosity towards none, but can only pray that now hopefully all will have a better understanding!

My heart goes out to Chev, as she truly put all her trust into this person... I may have been frustrated.... but I feel she has been betrayed at all cost & deserves all of our support!
:)

[MS_Vicki]

I never thought that about you, nor was I ever offended by anything you EVER said or did....

I Just hope you now understand my caution & statements...

I shut myself off after I was ridiculed, & banned at another site for my true statements!

& I am still bitter about being banned! But I'll get over it... as this clarify's everything... & there is always a price to pay!!!!

[MS_Vicki]

Last Commit ...

I feel at peace now, & would like to enjoy it while it last...
So with this... I will once again bid my ado's... & wish you all the very best...
Just know that I Luv you all... & never stopped...

I'll keep you updated on my outcome!!!

Take Care, & Take Caution!
Most importantly... Take Care Of SELF!!!
:)

[snook_man]

"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"

Live and let live, and move forward!! We all know, the only way to get on with life, and get stonger, is to LEARN from our mistakes..
So as I look at all these posts, and all these accusations, I just say, " Forgive them Father, For they know not what they do"..

We say that Americans are a violent people by nature, but VIOLENCE is a part of history.. Some of the bloodiest wars ever where fought in Europe, and the middle east.. The race has nothing to do with it, it is the SPECIES!!! Conflict is always inevitable.. Just look at the forum.. With all the GOOD intentions, and all the support, look at the CONFLICT.. People try so hard sometimes to do what they feel is THEIR responsibility, that they forget the harm that they might be inflicting on another.
" Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"..

[scruffy]

And I say that any guy(snake) that preys on vulnernable women had best consider the men that are noticing and considering action!

[MajNeni]

I can't believe this thread at all.  Seems to me almost everyone here has gone bonkers.  What sort of character assassination is going on here?  

Let me get this off my chest, too, while I'm at it.  Thanbey was already studying HepC treatments ten years ago, when most of the people on this board had never even heard of it.  I read some of her posts back in the mid 90's, searching for answers.  She did not make false claims here, but presented many factors that people should consider before committing to tx.  She did not profit from her participation on this board; others have given links to their sites as well.  Deciding to Tx requires taking as many factors as possible into consideration; Thanbey was persecuted because she told people to really think about it, including potential long term effects of tx.  The crusade against Thanbey really turned me off, and it still does; in fact, it got this forum turned off.  Scott, you turned on me about that, about why I didn't criticize her; well, here you go, I did not agree with you.  
Doing Tx is a personal choice most of us made; some people choose not to tx.  Tx does not work for everyone, we've seen that.  

Scott, Vicky, I know you've been at odds with Indiana.  I happen to have independently thought you crossed the line lots of times here on the forum when you were in the midst of tx; many do, but you, Scott, were all but obcessive.  You provoked, you kept on visiting old issues.  It was painful to read.  I agree with your politics, etc., but here on the board, I do not read people the same way you do.  I have had some personal contact with Jeff, and I totally disagree with your statements above about him.  He has done nothing but help me through treatment, and that is what he has done for most people here.  Chevy, I am surprised that you have joined in this foray; you know how to reach me.

This oldie is out of here.  Some of you are probably glad, and won't miss me.  To the rest of you, whom I think of as friends, I wish you the best with your treatment, and may you all be rid of Hepatitis, may you have easy side effects, may you attain SVR.  Those who know me, contact me directly if you wish to stay in touch.

I do believe this will end the run of the SVR bus, so we will not be needing another driver.  We have reached the terminal; everybody off.  Fend for yourselves, without this and the many other images we have projected to help people laugh and stay positive.  Derail, good luck; I hope no one turns on you.

Maj Neni

[Sam Hall]

The above post is just typical.The who thenby thing was just a joke people were really angry that someone they did not trust was allowed to spout whilst they were censored until the aner got to fierce for the forum. My memory of it was that it seemed like one long attempt at advertising and triggered tons of resentment and it might have been a lot easier to ask thenby to just leave it.
The idea that peoples  views about indy are just grudges is in the end plain daft. I have no contact outside of these forums with Rev Viki Chev and yet i managed to find plenty to support my concerns.
"I'm glad you are seeing all the "behind the scenes stuff for what it is......just a load of ****. Vicki (befuddled...and the 2 or 3 other names she uses) is WAY lost in the Meds right now. It's sad to watch. She has decided that I am the "Great Satan" or something close and has been attacking me with a vengence. She left Med Hep after Cindy there asked her to stop attacking me and some others. But she has continued her attacks and rumors behind the scenes there at Lous and over at Hot Heps. She was sending me some very threatening e-mails for about 2 weeks until I finally had to block her e-mail from my account. I have to protect my family from that kind of person....so I will not deal with her again"
This is nothing compared to more disturbing stuff used elsewhere in e-mails some reveling in having saved "every post by females".
I remember warning a newbie that there are plenty of snakes in the grass in cyberspace. I for one have fired off some pretty nasty stuff when i get angry but don't have any bad intention beyond that. Some do. Please don't be nieve.
SH

[snook_man]

Hey Rev, I will never deny saying to bomb Iran.. If they are defiant, and want to do harm to other countries, what options are we left with?? Should we wait until they use a nuke?? Should we just allow them to stand on there border and flick off the UN, and America?? You support allies, and the UN, but they are defying them.
As far as a speach, are you that close minded?? Why is it so hard to except the leader that the American people came out voted for. Are you that anti-american, where you would turn your back to democracy??  If you are sooo concerned about the wealthfare of Americans, and all people, why not support and work together? How can there EVER be peace, when there are close minded people like you allowed to run free?? The phsycosis in America was well defined in blue, and continues to jeopardize the security and wellfare of our nation today..

[pearse]

MajNeni, I'm with you, I am out of here to. This was a good site for support in 02 when I came here. Thats right, HEPC SUPPORT. Not someone's rambling's about this or that. Have Fun, pick each other apart, complain about every little thing you can think of.Thats what you all do best.

[madbyron]

Do you mean to tell me that Indy did something so horrible and manipulative that a simple “stop” from you was insufficient to resolve it? That your only recourse was to publicly slander and humiliate him to the witness of everybody on this forum? How utterly loathsome, hateful and cowardly of you!

Scott, at one time I thought you may have something on the ball, but I now find it quite simple to dismiss the possibility that within you resides socially redeeming traits, and write you off as the self-aggrandizing buffoon you have here proven yourself to be. Over the last year you have done more to debase the discourse on this site than 10 Thanbeys combined, and have succeeded in dragging quite a number of hapless followers into the muck with you. Scott, you are a hypocrite and you and your sideshow lynch mob well deserve each other.

I chose some time ago not to engage with Indiana in his frequently off-color, sophomoric humor, not because it made me personally uncomfortable, but because I didn’t find most of it particularly humorous. I did, however, question whether it might make others queasy, but concluded that it was for those who might feel that way to speak up. I don’t recall an instance of that happening. I do, however, recall countless in-kind rejoinders. To now claim that Indy’s sometimes overly personal way of interacting with people is evidence of a pattern of sexual predation is despicable, to say the very least.  Whom this man has harmed? Any of you? Any that you know?

[Sam Hall]

Depends what you mean by harm eh? As you sat for some as yoursrlf it's eay to disengage with someone at anytime bit iwould argue that for others it is more difficult and as has been pointed out many are made more vulnerable by the drugs that they are currently px.
I find it difficult to except that anyone posting can be either a coward or brave due to the anonymous nature of cyberspace. That does not however exclude the potential for harm that can be done psychologically.
I do some of my work in a secure unit populated on the whole by people with the diagnosis of personality disorder who have committed what in the UK are called "Index" offences.This may include violence to the person and on occassion what you in the US would deam "stalking".
Guess what they have no accsess to the internet or telephones.
Why? Because the ability to stimulate themselves by mentaly abusing others is amazing. In one incident one pattient aquired a walky-talky and managed to contact/lure some kids in the local area(**it hit fan).
I don't mean to be putdownish but do not under-estimate the ability of those with strong preditory instincts around the vulnerable.
As for slander or libel how can this be when the people invlved are anonymous.
SH

[Tallblonde]

You make some very valid points.  Those who are crying "foul" routinely engage in sexually provacative banter -- especially on Lou's board.  Come'on...everyone knows you should be cautious when it comes to Internet relationships.

These accusers, in my opinion, make women look stupid -- as if we're too feeble-minded and naive to prevent ourselves from being victimized.  If some private discussions got out of line, the women involved should have simply told the guy, privately, to take a hike.  And I'm not buying the excuse that treatment clouded their judgment. Sheeh.

This has finally convinced me to bail for good, too.  An otherwise great resource has been ruined by a small clique of idiots who love high drama.  

Susan

[Sam Hall]

Answer YOU.
Your post above are tantamount to the abusers defence of "well she was asking for it".
I applaud you for beliieving that sisters can be strong however part of that strength is in helping and protecting the vulnerable or foolish from the pedetory.
Some people male or female need support and that will sometimes be because they have made big mistakes.
S Hall

[scruffy]

My regards to the other MEN on this board who can recognize sexual predation and will speak out. My pity to anyone who thinks that these women invited this on themselves by simply being too open about their feelings on tx. Frank

[Califia]

I have rushed to judgment and wish to apologize for my earlier crack suggested Ginrich-like behavior on the part of someone about whose private life I actually don't have a clue.

Indiana has my email address and has never harassed me or abused my trust.  He has brought me nothing but comfort and delight on this board w/ his jokes and silliness.

Discrepancy between public persona and private behavior?   Very possible, indeed, but all I can do is judge is public behavior, and Indy's has been impeccable.   Unrelentingly positive, which is a real asset on a support board.

You see, I was swayed by Chev's moving, is somewhat incoherent account, and assumed that something indeed must have happened to prompt such an awkward outpouring.  But again, could it not have been dealt with in private?   Had Indiana's continuing participation on this board made Chev so uncomfortable she would have withdrawn a long time ago, but she certainly did not.   When I recently posted about a physical problem in "Rash Behavior,"  and Chev took it upon herself to notify Indiana to check in with me.   This was only last week, fer hevvin's sake.    What the heck is going on here?

Scott, I understand your reluctance to name names, but you are expecting the rest of us to exile someone merely on the basis of innuendo and supposition.   If a group of victimized women were to come forward and directly state what has been going on, that would be another story altogether.   But until that happens,  hearsay is just not good enough,  and I publically apologize for having jumped on this bandwagon.

[cuteus]

I can not speak for any others but myself, I have not been solicited in any private emails by Jeff or anyone else. Every private email I've gotten from the male friends on this board have been welcomed and appropriate in their content. those that were spicy, were due to forwarded jokes, and I did not mind them.
This is not to say that things can not happen as mentioned.  We have people in the same family that get abused while other members don't, it is documented in criminal records. what makes an abuser choose his victims? I don't know.
Has it happened here? I don't know. All I know it did not, to me. What I wrote and sent to Jeff,  was carefully chosen.
I am sure many of our private emails get discussed among other members. I don't care if mine have, there was nothing I would regret sending. I learned from an experience online, not too long ago.
But that is my personal experience with this situation.
I can't say that the women are right or wrong in their impressions. I did not witness what they did, did not read what they read.
In honesty, I have to reserve judgement, because I don't have all the facts from either side.
I can like someone in this forum, without liking their behavior everytime.
I am sorry the women felt the way they did, no one should have to doubt themselves that way.

[Califia]

No one's second guessing you.  Just explaining the difficult position this puts the rest of us in.  And I'd still like to know why this scandal is breaking now if it's been so ongoing for so long.  

Cuteus,  would you mind some company in that corn maze?

[madbyron]

It's the shot bird that flutters, Scott, and I see fluttering.

[annainitaly]

well I don’t know…

from what I read, I have no simpathy for this indiana guy at all. but I don’t see the need to play advocacy for anybody here. I’ve never been on tx so I may be wrong, but I trust the ladies here to be able to refuse if uncomfortable - and some did, as it seems.
what has happened, wasn’t it among conscious/consenting adults? if they were not, if tx would affect so much a  behaviour, I hope people wouldn’t be allowed to go to work or drive a car while on treatment. what happens between adults is private - and I can like it or not. sex on-line is not my cup of tea and sexual behaviour on this forum sure is out of place, but other non-hep-related things are quite common here after all. I perceive a puritanic hue over this whole issue that makes me wonder. if the women involved have felt exploited or preyed upon I feel sorry and angry for that. but the fact that they are not talking in first person except chevy and layla, is that a sign that they may be afraid of being judged negatively, as in any true puritanic context? that would be very sad.

[annainitaly]

my mistake: I was meaning "except chevy and vicki", not chevy and layla
I apologize.

[Sioux]

From your post
Tv:
it showed an Indian saying "Ohio, the heart of it all!" I can't remember if that was the one where the indian was crying from the environmental destruction of the state or if that one was a different ad. It was kind of funny to see a "rep" of an extinct race by the 'christianity ministry' endorse the state. the crying indian is more fitting.

Native American Indians are not close to being EXTINCT !!!!
We are over 500 Nations Strong. Our cultures are very much alive.

"Funny to see a "REP" of an EXTINCT RACE endorsing OHIO ??? Please explain..... A crying Indian ??? Yes The NDN nations are sad, We have lost so much over that last several centuries.
There are many Indians that have contributed to the survival of the Europeans and others that came to this country.
So what's up with your comments ??

[cuteus]

it was aimed at Ohio, not the indian.  
the 'rep' was dressed in its orlginal ancestors attire. That race is extinct in the sense that it does not exists as it was represented in the ad.  the freedoms they possesed, stolen.  Their ability to practice their cultural beliefs, limited.
you saw the post as an attack to native ameicans? odd.

[Sioux]

Thank you for your reply.
FYI. The only freedoms that we have lost are our land even with the treatys that were signed, much more was taken. Our cultures are very much alive. They are NOT limited. Many NDN's are christian, and Christianity and our beliefs go hand and hand.
The way that you expressed your words could be viewed as derogatory. However, I know that we can not understand everything that is wriiten here. That's why I asked for this to be clarified.
Thanks again.

[jg2001]

Please excuse me for jumping in on your discussion, but I just wanted to tell Sioux that when I was a little kid and people asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I'd always tell them "I wanna be an Indian when I grow up"!

Sorry, I just had to get that in there...

Jamie

[Sioux]

<smiling> That was cute.

[cuteus]

that was funny, I think I was the indian in my plays too...

sioux...I was angry at a state that gave me a hard time 15 yrs ago, and then the election...it made me remember the Ad.
it certainly was the heart of it all that Tuesday, but to me was a day for crying.
the native race from my country IS extinct, the Spanish missionaries saw to that, as they did in many American countries.
Personally, I believe that if we followed the beliefs of many of the original cultures, this would be a better world. It seems that  modern man shows no respect for the creatures of the world.

[mumsie]

What is going on?Tune in today being the 8th and people are posting off never to return,INDY a bad guy?? Would have never guessed.I don't know what's happening,but I do know one thing..no matter how comfy you get with people over the internet ,caution sign should always be on.I hope dear woman that everything is well with you, as you are inspiring.The politics and religion well ,,Idon't even talk to good friends as it's touchy...Take care everyone..Sue