Sho-saiko-to

[GwithHepC]

I have been doing a lot of research on Sho-saiko-to after Thanbey posted the information on the clinical trial.  This seems like it may be a "serious" alternative to the current treatment - NOT in terms of eliminating the virus, but in terms of reducing fibrosis and decreasing risk of liver cancer.  One thing concerns me however, there seems to have been incidents of interstitial pneumonia in users of sho-saiko-to; these cases seem to be in people who were taking interferon at the same time (warning to those on interferon), and also in the elderly and very young.

Has anyone had any experience with sho-saiko-to?  For those like myself who chose to wait for a better treatment, and for those who are nonresponders, relapsed, or had to stop tx, this seems like it may be very useful for keeping the fibrosis under control, and even reversing any current fibrosis, while we wait.

G

[cuteus]

testing 1, 2, 3

[friscosue]

Hi, everyone.  I'm a newcomer and don't know what "Tx" is.  I'd appreciate someone helping me with my research.  Thanks.

[cuteus]

hardly anyone comes all the way down here to read,
when you get your results let us know.  
I checked Lloyd's site when I was first diagnosed and he sounds VERY convincing.  He is also trying to sell something, I eventually went with treatment that has stats that are not based on anecdotes/testimonials.  It sounded too much like infomercials.
I wish you well, but if you are in your 50s, with some liver damage,  genotype 1, you are most likely wasting precious time. Viral load fluctuate wildly for no apparent reason on people not on treatment.  
Only when you have undetected vl within 24 wks of any tx you can consider the Tx as working.  If you do not achieve this in 6 months, don't waste any more time. The older you get the less effective tx becoomes.
The standard tx  does not make everybody disable as some naysayers proclaim.  I can vouch to that.

Be well

[suepalo]

I've been on sho-saiko for 3 months, my dr says shes been very successfukl with getting the virus down, also I've been working with a man who cured himself, I'm taking alot of his herbs, check out his sight. he has had many people clear the virus on what he did. You can read their testomonials on his site. It is www.hepatitiscfree.com. I was 6,660,000 IU/ml when tested in december, I will be tested in april, well see how effective all this is.....suepalo

[suepalo]

I have been taking sho-saiko-to for 3 months now, my dr. says shes been very successful at getting the virus down with it. Also, I've been taking cats claw, milk thistle, dandelion...and other tings thru a company owned by a man named lloyd wright. He has a internet site which is www.hepatitiscfree.com he had cured himself of hepatitis c and has helped thousands, many have actually cleared the virus on his herbs. you can read the testomonials on his site. I got my sgot and sgpt down drastically in just a few months, I will be tested in a few weeks for my enzymes and viral load. My viral load was very high when I found out I had the virus, I've probably had it a long time, could be 30 years but who knows. Last time checked it was 6,660,000 IU/ml so this blood test will tell how effective all this is. Iam very tired though, and I think its from the sho-saiko-to, I wasnt this tired til I started on it, but I read it can cause that, and that is a common complaint......suepalo

[suepalo]

I have been taking sho-saiko-to for 3 months now, my dr. says shes been very successful at getting the virus down with it. Also, I've been taking cats claw, milk thistle, dandelion...and other tings thru a company owned by a man named lloyd wright. He has a internet site which is www.hepatitiscfree.com he had cured himself of hepatitis c and has helped thousands, many have actually cleared the virus on his herbs. you can read the testomonials on his site. I got my sgot and sgpt down drastically in just a few months, I will be tested in a few weeks for my enzymes and viral load. My viral load was very high when I found out I had the virus, I've probably had it a long time, could be 30 years but who knows. Last time checked it was 6,660,000 IU/ml so this blood test will tell how effective all this is. Iam very tired though, and I think its from the sho-saiko-to, I wasnt this tired til I started on it, but I read it can cause that, and that is a common complaint......suepalo

[willing]

OK - I usually look through the new issues of Hepatology so I can post a digest of anything that looks interesting. It occurred to me that perhaps a more useful way of organizing all this information  would be in the form of annotated bibliographies : eg a list of recent, peer-reviewd, publications for or against anti-fibrotic effects of IFN, or extended-tx, or bx alterantives, etc.

[audreywald]

I saw my liver doc today and asked about the milk thistle. I was told that when the FDA has regulated it, the liver team at Northwestern Hospital in Chicago will probably prescribe it.

I think it helps a bit. (my opinion)

[GwithHepC]

Thanks again!!  

G

[willing]

OK, so my typing post-tx really hasn't improved. Here's the first <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14987950&dopt=Abstract">link </a> I meant to type (see also "Related Articles") and here's the <a href="http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/cdd/journal/v10/n1s/abs/4401163a.html&dynoptions=doi1078792201">second</a>.

[willing]

if you browse around on pubmed you'll find piles of papers documenting the effectiveness of sho-saiko-to (aka TJ-9) in inhibiting stellate-cell activation and thus reducing fibrosis. For example, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=PubMed">see. Also, this is a good <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12655347&dopt=Abstract">review</a> on complimenting/replacing standard tx with antifibrotic agents.

[Revenire]

Can Dr. Hanbey write me a script for some? I've tried calling her office but someone breathing heavy and asking for a credit card number keeps answering. Help.

[britgirl]

If your doctor says Milk Thistle nis fine on tx, then I understand you will want to continue. However, the liver unit at the hospital I went to also said definitely none while I was on Pegasys. In fact, I was told to avoid all herbs and vaccinations - they don't enough about possible interactions, they said. Anyway, it worked for me.

[Revenire]

Heh heh. Naughty boy.

I go to the "Believe It Or Not Research Centre" (notice my English spelling of 'centre') where my doctor -- T. Hanbey --takes my blood, does other invasive procedures (something we in America call the brainfuck -- can you say **** on the MedHelp board) and then give me drugs, but not that nasty interferon!

[audreywald]

lol, my liver doc said the milk thistle was ok.

Just goes to show you, something? I forgot what tho.

[mumsie]

Milk thistle took it for years ,just cause I drank and worked in the kitchen, the fumes and burn off always cocerned me, but I read that after 3 years you should go off it 'cause like anything  your body builds a tolerance to it,but now I'm on treatment,so it's not advisable. My 2 cents, Sue

[GwithHepC]

Susan:

You can go to Sloan-Kettering's <A href="http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/2270.cfm?peds=no&IRBNO=02-073&team=Hepatitis%20C&TT=">website</a>.  Also, in the post called 'Dr.' Teresa Hanbey on March 3rd (C22), Theresa posted the contact information.

G

[cuteus]

I was told by my hepatologist not take milk thistle while on Pegasys, only antioxidants .  You might want to double check with your doc before adding things while on Tx,  it might aid or it might hinder it.  Others might have scientific data in either direction, I am sure.
GL

[Tallblonde]

Where can I find some information about that clinical trial?  I'd like to check that out, too.

Susan

[audreywald]

I hope Milk Thistle is included in the routines of anyone using supplements and or a nutritional approach. I have been on milk thistle for years, and my biopsy results have not worsened in these 5 years. I do not believe the milk thistle will cure me, so I am on tx, but I do beleive that it is helping me to "hold my own."

[TA K]

Like everything else, I have concerns about pneumonitis but I'm not overly worried about it. This complication applied to the eldery who had underlying lung disease and continued taking Sho-Saiko-to after the onset of pneumonitis or had severe hypoxemia.

They don't recommend Sho-Saiko-to if you have chirrosis, taking interferon-based therapy or have an underlying lung condition.

Interferon alone can cause pnemonitis from what I understand. A few posts back, a woman said that her husband while on treatment developed and died from a lung condition. Nothing is risk free as far as I am concerned.

The reason I opt not to do the interferon treatment is because of all the risks, sx that go with it and poor results for people of my age, gender and genotype. Not that it couldn't work but I just don't like the odds. If the doctors were more up-front with me regarding therapy and the risks associated with it, I might have given it more consideration.

Yes take your vitamin E. Include selenium and alpha lipoic acid with it. I wish you well.

Tom

[GwithHepC]

PeeBee:

Sounds like the kind you were taking will cause scarring! ;-)

Tallblonde:

Thanks!  I will increase my Vitamin E - it does seem to be a really good anti-oxidant.

TA K:

Thank you for the feedback!  Do you have any concern over the reports of interstitial pneumonia?  I think the insert may have some warnings about it.  Probably rare though, but still, concerns me a bit.  I am going to see if I qualify for a Stage II clinical trial in New York City - apparently it is for 52 weeks.  When I call for the trial I will ask about the pneumonia risk and I will post what they tell me.

G

[TA K]

I'm a 57yr old male with hep c, 1a and a vl of 2,600,000. My best guess, I been infected for thirty years now but was only officially diagnosed last June. It came as no surprise since everyone I hung around with had it.

I've added Sho-Saiko-to (H09) to my regimen about five months ago and feel it has helped. The fatigue I was experiencing has improved dramatically. My alt and ast have been slightly elevated on and off over the years. In December I had blood work done and they fell within the normal range. Is this all due to the Sho-Saiko-to, I don't know?

For years now I have been taking quite a few vitamins a day and exercise as well. I feel this helps too.

You can purchase Sho-Saiko-to (H09) from Moss Nutrition located in Hadly, MA, Tel. [phone]. One hundred and fifty dollars for a three month supply.

If I can help any further, please let me know.

Tom K

[Tallblonde]

G--

Yep, your numbers aren't too far off from mine.  I'm a 1a, VL between 15,000-25,000 iu/mL, grade 2 inflammation, stage 1 fibrosis (although the bx said "no significant fibrosis").  

Thanks for sharing info on your regimen.  I'm not familiar with Ola Loa, but will check it out.  By the way, Erin (our missing-in-action GI.PA) recommended taking the 800 I.U.'s of Vitamin E.  I noticed it wasn't included in your protocol.  There does seem to be some credible research that suggests it's helpful to HCV patients.

Susan