Should I treat?? Advice please

[miss moneypenny]

hello,

this is my first posting here + hope you don

[v eggie dip]

Hi Susan, hope you're well...

Question;  you didn't mention taking milk thistle in your daily regimen, was that an oversite?

Just curious, your story is an inspiration to me and wanted make sure that I should be taking milk thistle...

Also, what genoptype are you?

Thanks Beth :)

[cougareyes]

Hey Cin don't we all talk to our animals like they're people.

Missmoneypenny you have been by far the most popular new post ever, you've gotten enough good advice to make you even more confused than you were before you got here. So I won't even add my 2 cents.  Good look on your decision

Food for thought: I was reading about maintenance tx, and seeing how the changing doses of interferon would alter the viral load. Patients that became undetectable, then when their dose was cut, the viral load came back.
Perhaps this plays a role in what we talking about earlier with relapse and hiding virus. Perhaps what has to happen after we are off tx is our own immune system must take over to keep the virus at bay. If that's the case then whatever we do to strenghten our immune systems would help.
By taking a supplement regimen that also targets the immune system can only help at keeping the virus at bay. And whatever we can do to relieve inflammation, probably the most important thing; will give our liver new life.     Peace

[jmjm530]

I respect Tallblonde's personal approach to "watchful waiting" and confess I have no knowledge of either of the herbal formulations she's taking. The vitamins and fish oil supplements seem fine.

As I've done before, I continue to question anecdotally stories like Tallblonde's, not to make it personal, or stir up any old controversies, but simply to further discussion and learning, especially to new members who haven't had the benefit of these discussions before.

First, I believe a healthy lifestyle is very important. and I'm just guessing (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) that Tallblonde also eats well, exercises regularly, keeps close to an ideal weight, and probably doesn't smoke or drink very much. To me, this is the "first line" approach of watchful waiting. Get your lifestyle in order.

As far as herbs, it's an area I'm interested in, also an area I had a personal bad experience in, where my enzymes went so far the wrong way, it was almost an acute infection.

But back to Tallblonde's story which on face can seem very impressive. The only number that matters to me is Fibrosis level, and the half-stage difference Tallblonde mentions in my opion isn't  clinically significant in terms of a blood marker test.

I also have been able to alter my liver enzymes by diet alone. Whenever I went on a very low fat diet, my enzymes became normal. Whenever I went off the diet, they became elevated. I would like to believe that lower enzymes mean less fibrosis progession but there's just no evidence of that. What it does probably mean is that your liver isn't working as hard, which is good.

As far as viral counts are concerned, mine went from over 30 million to 16,000 during a two year period. I was taking no vitamins or supplements during that time. Then three months later, it jumped from 16,000 to 1.5 million.  This is the nature of the beast. Viral loads can fluctuate wildly. To suggest we can control our viral loads with herbs and/or vitamins needs more proof than an anecdotal story.

Hopefully, more funding will be made available to further study vitamins and especially herbal formulations. I certainly hope they will find something that offers a path to regress or even reverse fibrosis. But right now it's still premature to draw the conclusion that vitamins/supplements can slow or reverse liver damage. And for anyone who takes this approach, I strongly suggest "reality checks" in the form of a Fibrosure test every year and a biopsy every 3-5 years.

Taking vitamins/supplements/herbs is a personal decision with no "right" or "wrong" in my opinion. Just do your research, take account of anecdotally stories like Tallblonde's, but also keep in mind anecdotal stories are just that, and the main thing that matters is whether you liver is getting better or not which can only be determined by biopsy or tests like Fibrosure.

-- Jim

[Tallblonde]

If you decide to postpone treating, I suggest you begin a regimen of herbs, vitamins and supplements to protect your liver while you're waiting.  Many of us "watchful waiters" are doing this and most have had impressive results.  I was diagnosed two years ago and according to my latest Fibrosure test, there has been no progression of fibrosis.  In fact, I've gone from a Stage 1, to a Stage 0-1.  My liver enzymes are half of what they once were and and are almost within a normal range.  My viral load has gone from a high of 24,800 IU/mL to 714 IU/mL.

You should research everything before putting it into your body, but here are the primary things I take daily:

Centrum Silver Mult-Vitamin
Health Liver Version 2 (from Vitacost.com) 6 capsules
NuLiver (a proprietary Chinese herbal blend) 6 capsules
Vitamin C  -- 1000 mg.
Vitamin E -- 400 IU
Tumeric -- 900 mg.
Fish Oil - 3 capsules

I also drink a lot of white tea and Rooibos tea (both from Celestial Seasonings.  The latter has been found to prevent cirrhosis in rats.  Good enough for me!

Whatever you decide, good luck.  It'll take some time, but eventually you'll come to discover that this diagnosis isn't the end of the world and doesn't have to be the entire focus of your life.  Be grateful that you have little or no liver damage.  Many people aren't so lucky.

Susan

[cquest]

Isn't that funny that the cats come running when the phone rings! Animals are so smart, my one cat likes to drink from the bathroom faucet and I can't close the door if I'm in there, he will scratch it up so I have to say 'Are you coming?' before I go in there and he comess running from wherever he is...My husband is always saying I speak in sentences too long for the animals to understand but that scenario pretty much shut him up...I tell my puppy to 'finish eating' and point to the bowl and she does...or 'get in the house' and she does...plus if the other dog is outside and I have forgotten to let him in, Sonia will come to me and whine and start running towards the door like 'let him in! let him in!' My older dog used to rat on Pooh Bear (now deceased) when he would eat the cat food...Chaco would come in the living room and dance around and whine until I realized Pooh was eating the cat food again the weazel...I would have horses if I had the barn and cleared space, I have 3 acres but it's woods and rocks...anyway...gotta go to work!
Cin

[jmjm530]

Thanks.