Pro, you seem to be quite a mathematician yourself these days! Nothing to add here, except a link that might be of help:
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/factsheets_pdf/Viralload_%202007.pdf
How are you these days, Pro? It is nice to be doing the final countdown, don't you think?
All, 400'000 IU/ml is more and more stated as the cut-off point for low baseline viral load. And I remember seeing graphs which suggest that the higher viral load you have the less chance of SVR, actually down to 20% for high viral load genotype 1 according to one study.
http://www.natap.org/2006/ICAAC/ICAAC_43.htm
(Look at:
Figure 2: "SVR rate as a function of baseline HCV RNA level (loge scale) for patients infected with HCV genotype 1..."
Table 2: "SVR rates by genotype and by viral load cut-off point of 400'000 IU/ml"
Figure 3: "SVR rate as a function of baseline HCV RNA level (loge scale) for patients infected with HCV genotype 2/3...")
Here is another link with other charts. Read for yourself and compare, it is some while ago since I read them last.
http://www.natap.org/2007/EASL/EASL_41.htm
At a quick glance at the figure 3 mentioned above, it does seem to me that the odds of SVR for geno 2 and 3 does not vary much depending on how much above the cut-off point you are (= how much above 400'000 IU/ml).
Do you remember if you had a two-log drop by week 12? If you didn't, then you were a non-responder and your current treatment should have reflected that. All that, and given the fact that your week 4 test shows no viral response -- I would make an appointment with a hepatologist ASAP. If the hepatologists office tells you that there's a long wait, ask to speak to the office manager, nurse or doctor -- and explain that you're mid-treatment -- you're not responding -- and that you really can't wait that long. Very often, a specialist will see you with minimum wait in such a situation. Try and bring as many records -- blood test, biopsy and ultrasound reports, etc -- as possible with you -- but don't let it delay getting an appointment.
-- Jim
No I was on peg and ribovarin and I did drop, I think if i dig out my labs from that time, I did start slow, BUT it went down. 12 weeks I dropped. by the end of 48 weeks I was UND , stayed that way at month 6 after tc PCR.
Nines months it was back, I think I told you during the begining of this time I was also on steroids, and some where in my head I have this idea that there is somethin gin that.
No, I am not seeing a hepatologist, that is probably good advice, I need to look into that.
Deb
Other than you're a relapser, don't know much about your prior tx history. Were you a non-responder (less than two-log drop at week 12) or did you respond and then relapse?
In any event, your week 4 test at best shows no viral response so fat. Hopefully, you're seeing a hepatologist (liver specialist) and they have made whatever adjustments in your treatment they feel necessary. If you're not seeing a hepatologist, now would be the time to have a consultation.
-- Jim
here is mine, I know it went up at 4 weeks, instead of down. Sighs I almost
gave up. Next week another one, which hoping goes down after increasing infergen to daily shots.
thanks Deb
Starting baseline
11/02/07
Hep C Virus RNA QU
HCV RNA Quant PCR
Abnormality Level H 203000 <5 IU/ml
HCV RNA PCR copi
Abnormality Level H 406000 <10 copies /m
12/13/07
Protien total serum 2.5
Albumin Serum 3.9
Globum 2.5
A/G Ratio 1.6
Bilirubin 0.8
Alkaline Phosphatease, S 69
AST 27
Alt 23
HCV Quantasure Plus non graph 610,840 IU/ml
HCV Log 10 5.786 Log 10 IU/ml
To put things in perspective, most people have more than a 600,000 IU/ml starting viral load, at least from what I read here. FWIW, my pre-tx viral load was 1.5 million IU/ml, and I'm now SVR.
-- Jim
Ok....then I am twice that. Not too bad !!
the cut off point for low viral load is 600 IU/ml
Jim
"Isn't your result given in IU/ml? "
No. My health center lab still uses copies/mL for viral load tests.
Test Result Units
Hcv Viral Load (Quant) 6383442 Copies/m
Item Annotations 05/25/2007
The lower limit of detection is 3,200 copies/mL or 615 IUs/mL
Methodology: bdna Signal Amplification technology
As mentioned in your post to me yesterday -- and as stated by Proacive -- the conversion from Copies to IU/ml vaires depending on factors such as the type of test used. For that reason, the international standard (IU/ml) should be used. Isn't your result given in IU/ml?
Anyway, the TMA test you noted yesterday seemed to use a conversion of "2.7" while the Bdna test you now note appears to use a conversion factor of "5.2". I'm extrapolating this from the way the lower detection limit is expressed -- "3,200 copies/mL or 615 IUs/mL "
So if you divide 6,383,442 by 5.2 you end up with 1,227,585 IU/ml. not the 2.55 million IU/ml you seem to note above. (Please see Janis site referenced by "Proactive" to check all this as I'm much more familiar only working in IU/ml)
That said, it really doesn't matter which viral load you pre-treatment in terms of prediciting SVR. I say this because a study suggests the same chance of SVR regardless how high your viral load is unless it's low viral load which I think was defined as around 600,000 IU/ml but not sure. In other words same chance of SVR if your pre-tx viral load was 2 million or 20 million.
Setting up a simple formula: given 3200 copies/ml = 615 iu/ml
3200/615=6383442 /X would give
6383442 copies/ml = 1,226,818 iu/ml
but check my math....my mind is pretty crispy these days.
Where's Za? She is our resident mathematician
here is a site that might help you...You can see there are various conversion methods from copies/ml to iu/ml, depending on your test type..
http://www.janis7hepc.com/Viral_Loads.htm