drinking

[alice cole]

have you been told you are allowed to drink after treatment ?

[drofi]

without drinking you will die by dehydration within 3-4 days.

[debnevada]

hahahahaa

you so clevah

love it

Alice:  I haven't been told anything like that, but i haven't asked.

[APKhaos]

The advice I got was to drink in absolute moderation, or not at all. The idea here is to give the old liver the best possible chance to recover & regenerate, and hopefully to regress the damege caused by the ravages of HCV for all those years.

After being off any alcohol for so long, a glass of wine every few days is sweet enough.

[cajunlady]

Everything in moderation.  There are many of us who have been told we could and some have been told no.  My doctor said I could go on with my life as it was before.  Does not mean I can go out and throw a drunk every weekend.  I usually attend about 5 house parties a year, my doctor had no problem with that.  MODERATION is the key if you are allowed to drink.  It will also depend on how much damage your liver had and has post tx.  The liver repairs itself, but if your liver is still trying to repair some damage post tx, the advice would be do not drink and let your liver repair.  Most are told a few glasses of wine a week is okay.

Good Luck,
Cajun

[pigeonca]

The doc said okay in moderation, so I did some investigating on the web.  It seems that drinking over 30 grams (about 2 drinks) a day taxes the liver, but that approx. one glass for women, two for men is fine.  Probably not every day and definitely no benders.  The whole idea is to not overload that liver.  

With dinner about two to four nights a week, I drink between 6 and 8 oz. of wine. As in so many things, choices need to be made.  I think the 8 oz. nights might slightly exceed the rule of thumb, one drink for women, but I don't do more than that ever, and rarely two nights in a row, so I'm willing to take a tiny risk.

[Becky D]

My understanding is that fibrosis of the liver is not reversable. Yes, the liver can regenarate itself but not to that extent. My advice would be leave it alone. It's not worth your life and if there's even the slightest chance that I would have to revisit the past, you can count me out.  Why in the world would you take a chance on drinking after you've been through this hell.  Just my thoughts on it. Besides, does the benefit of 1 glass of fine outweigh the potential harm. Personally, one glass of wine, one beer would be just enough to **** me off.  Certainly can't see a warm fuzzy feeling or a buzz coming from it. Have you tried natures finest? Bud. Not alot of reseach to conclude its harmful effects with the exception of smoking it. Would suggest brownies, ban. bread or blueberries muffins are really great. Not that I would know anything about that.  LMAO. Would much rather see someone doing that than drinking and besides it has been proven effective for medicinal purposes. ETOH never even made it to the drawing board without getting shot down. The exception would be cardiovascular. But that is one glass of red wine nightly and only if its not contraindicated by other illnesses or dz processes. I would say Hep B and the damage it causes would fit in that description. Pre, during or post tx. ETOH is insane. Even in moderation. Look at the people out there that would love to have the optiion to quit stupid **** like that to save their lives.  Think about your choices and then put them on the scale of justice. If drinking is more important than life, knock yourseld out. But I certainly wouldn't do it small if I were gonna take that route. I'd go the full mile. Atleast when I was laying there in end live stage dz. I could say I had a great time. Don't mean to sound harsh. I'm just immoveable on this subject. I lost someone very close to me and am losing another to end-stage liver dz. It's horrible at its very best. They were both big drinkers and both were told if they kept drinking it would kill them. It did one and my brother-in-law is holding on by a thread for just an ounce of hope. How he wished that he would have put it down and left it down when he had the chance. Now, he doesn't drink but it doesn't change what he and my sister/children are facing death in one of the most horrible ways anyone can imagine. Take my advice and the advice of many healthcare professionals that are advocates of weed. If you gotta take something choose smoke. It can make you a little crazy according to reseach but hell most of us are already a little crazy if we've gotten this far.  Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just my take on it. Do what you want. Just know the facts before you can't take it back....... No Regrets......    Becky

[jmjm530]

Becky: My understanding is that fibrosis of the liver is not reversable
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Fibrosis is often reversible (several stages even) with successful treatment.

[Myown]

Why in the world would you take a chance on drinking after you've been through this hell.  Just my thoughts on it.
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I agree with you.

Some may say "moderation" is fine, but as far as I am concerned, moderation is the same as 'excess,'(in our situation) it just takes a little longer to arrive at the same destination.

[shastri20032003]

Hot topic....and very subjective as to what is moderation. One thing is obvious This is one topic where there is no  black and white answer....there are clearly shades of grey inbetween
No point denying it...important topic for those who were drinkers pretx and who have finished tx.....should I or shouldn't I?
But lets accept one hard fact....like Myown rightly said quote... moderation is the same as 'excess,'(in our situation) it just takes a little longer to arrive at the same destination.... unquote
You may google all you want and you will get thousands of varied opinions on this topic..ultimately  it comes down to....  how important is drinking to us post tx?

Guess it all comes down to our control and our priorities and our addiction to drinking because theres no such thing as drinking in moderation......thats just a personal opinion

Just curious.....who has started drinking post tx and how many days after stopping treatment?

[CockSparrow]

Jim - Fibrosis is often reversible (several stages even) with successful treatment
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But definately doesnt happen for everyone. See it as a bonus, not something to expect.
CS

[jmjm530]

Actually it appears to happen for most. So I see fibrosis reversal (or stoppage) not as a bonus, but as the primary reason for treating.

[CockSparrow]

If you are including stoppage then i agree. If you mean the majority reverse fibrosis the we are reading different studies. Many of the ones i have read cant even completly dismiss sample error.
I dont think it is as its consistant across multiple studies, but only the minority reverse fibrosis.
Its the main reason other than cure which stops fibrosis and hopefully reverses it for me too.
CS

[jmjm530]

Yes, I figured we were in agreement that the primary reason to treat is to stop the progression of fibrosis, but not 100% sure. As to "reversal", just about all the studies I've seen -- or hepatologists I've spoken to -- talk about it more as a probability as opposed to a "minority". I'll see if I can dig something up later in the day. Do you have anything current to back your position? I did see a couple of studies cautioning optimism re fibrosis stoppage (or regression) but they were referring to treatment without SVR. I'm talking strictly SVR here, not just treatment.

Be well,

-- Jim

[nygirl7]

I don't want to get involved in all this hoopla once again so I would just like to say "please use common sense" that's all.

If I developed lung cancer from smoking would I then feel it would be ok to go grab a pack of Marlboro's and light up?  I am sure I'd want to desperately (i am a die hard smoker unfortunately) but I wouldn't do it.

I would advise anyone with liver damage to really think hard before drinking in "moderation" because in that case - it is NOT moderation at all, it is already excess - you're liver is already damaged as it is - so it is NOT the same as a person with a perfectly healthy liver that is able to process a few drinks with no problem, you know?

Just something to think about when talking about "moderation".  They use that word for people who have HEALTHY livers - something none of us have.

[ponyshel]

I have to side with the non drinkers here....I am almost 3 years no alcohol....I want to " tie one on " so to speak but won't take the chance..so not worth it....
ny how are u doin? by the way I smoke too...The only vise left for me...Its my last thing to conquer dr told me to wait a little while then try to quit...my ct of lungs doesn't look as if I smoke so heres to keeping my fingers crossed there...ever see that flick "the insider?" good one ..wishes to all :) shelly

[nygirl7]

Hey my doctor had said the same thing - don't try and do everything at once hold off on the trying to quit. Well, now I'm six or seven months post treatment and can't seem to remember that I WAS supposed to try and quitt!!!!  Well anyway after these past two weeks I would have started again no DOUBT so I'm glad I didn't waste that time and suffering!  ;)

I know it's not the best thing for our livers but it certainly isn't the same thing as drinking at all...so for right now in this state of mind I have total peace over it.  I'll quit later when I'm stronger.  Maybe ;)

[ponyshel]

yes I know that after you quit your body goes through detox ...hello ALREADY there...My father quit and has been in he Hospital 3 times for heart related...he smoked over 30 years..never ill before that..your body gets used to it...I also agree right now its not the time  maybe later;) lol shelly

[pigeonca]

People who "tie one on" and regard drinking in moderation as excessive don't seem to understand what moderation means.  People who drink moderately drink mostly for the flavor, not for the effects.  As far as I'm concerned, if there were decent non-alcoholic wines in sufficient varieties and vintages, I'd drink them.  But there are very few.

I started with the wine after moving to California and visiting vineyards as a part of  exploring my new state.  Then I read that one glass of red nightly is beneficial to the heart.  Since my dad and brother both had coronaries, I figured I would take this advice "to heart."  Then I got serious, began taking classes in wine and attending tastings.  Very educational stuff.  I never drink swill.  I never drink to get drunk or high, because those sensations feel yucky to me.  (I'm a pothead - which may also be hard on the liver, but I choose to smoke some here and there.  That's "my" vice.)

From what I've read, a single glass of wine with a meal is as harmless as a piece of chocolate cake - interpret that as you will.....

[jmjm530]

Pigeonica: From what I've read, a single glass of wine with a meal is as harmless as a piece of chocolate cake - interpret that as you will..
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Acually, your quite wrong. A glass of wine has certain benefits to the cardiovascular sytem -- to name one -- while chocolate cake, pop soda, junk food, smoking, being overweight, under-exercised, over over-the-countercized, etc, is not harmless.

I planned on staying out of this thread, until the alcohol thread "oldies" popped in, and even then I refrained until I read your post which was a breath of fresh air and a sweet song to those who want to drink the occasional glass of wine (or beer) without feeling guilty or that they are doing something harmful to their health.

My doc, a leading heaptologist, blah, blah, blah, (and he really is), actually suggested I have a daily drink with dinner to help some of my cardiac issues. And I had stage 2-3 going into treatment.

Of course, people should listen to what their doctors have to say and do their own research, because in the end it's their own body we're talking about. And from the little I know about alcoholism, anyone with previous drinking problems probably making a big mistake thinking they can drink in "moderation" so therefore abstaining from alcohol completely seems the most reasonable course. For the record, I've had maybe four or five beers and a couple of glasses of wine the last couple of months. The reason I don't do the daily drink my doc suggests has nothing to do with my liver but more to do with keeping some pounds off, and the fact that I'm not in the mood to drink on a regular basis. Never have been.

Thanks for explaining "moderation" in such a moderating way.

All the best,

-- Jim

[jmjm530]

My comment regarding my doctor's advice should have been noted as "after SVR". That said, I had been told prior to treatment that an *occasional* drink would do me no harm. I did not drink a drop during treatment, not did I ever bring that subject up with a doctor.

[pigeonca]

Quite right about the cake - but I try to convince myself that the antioxidents in dark chocolate are beneficial.

Have any of you been to Utah?  Those Mormons have none of the usual vices - they're not allowed to smoke or drink, not even coffee, tea or caffeinated soda pop.  So they're into sugar.  Restaurants in Utah have amazing desserts.  Even the Salt Lake City airport is a sweet-tooth's delight.  It's amazing how human beings will find a vice no matter what.

[jmjm530]

Pigeonca: Those Mormons have none of the usual vices
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Except multiple wives. LOL.

[spcecst2]

yes drinking is the first thing on mind if I go thru all this **** and get lucky enough to get svr!!!!!! gonna get a couple of kegs, do sum shots smoke my brains out have wild unprotected sex!!!!!

[FlGuy]

Think it was Ogden Nash:

Candy is dandy but,
Liquor is quicker