fatique not r/t to hep C: per doc

[jodao]

same GI doc states as well as the itching not caused by liver neither is my fatigue. States the hep C and liver is not bad enough.  WHAT?! The Hep C just only recently caused cirrhosis. How friggin bad does it have to be. This virus had been in my body 25-30 yrs now.  States it is my depression since my son died almost a yr ago.  Shoot I was depressed before that and received counseling and antidepressant. I get depressed when I get fatigue.  They really don't know what their saying do they.  As a said ,I'm an R.N (not working now) and I do not trust many doctors. There are good ones that don't have a GOD complex but the one's that do...I wish they would just say...I don't know!

[orphanedhawk]

One of the best things I like about my hepatologist  is how willing he is to say," we don't know."

You know you need to find a good hepatologist who can help you.

Fatigue is the main symptom of hep C.
Your GI is not only misinformed but dangerous.
Shame on them.

[jodao]

yeah, I always say that...shame on them...god again i have to look for someone to help me without insurance but i do have a spenddown.  calling MUO in toledo

[crossroadsec]

Heck yes! This virus can wear you out. I've slept off n on for a week since I'm on Christmas break. Your body is fighting, irregardless of how much damage. I've napped almost daily for 30 years. I know there are stats somewhere. My dr says sleep anytime you can get it so your body can recoup.  
Take care of you.. Karen :)

[jodao]

oh I wish my doc could see all this.my printer is not working may print at a friends. I'm going to sign off for now but if you have anymore info that could help just let me know? I'll check back.
Hey...does anyone go to a Hep C support group?  Bet the group has so good info tike everyone here.

[jodao]

oh I wish my doc could see all this.my printer is not working may print at a friends. I'm going to sign off for now but if you have anymore info that could help just let me know? I'll check back.
Hey...does anyone go to a Hep C support group?  Bet the group has so good info tike everyone here.

[curiouslady1]

It is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between depression and fatigue related to other causes.  Depression, like hepc related fatigue, can be long lasting despite a course of therapy and AD.  Although I feel that my long standing HepC caused some fatigue, I can see now that there is a contribution from depression, diabetes, aging, loneliness, grieving as well.   He/she may be responding to other signs of depression that you are demonstrating and trying to convey that a consultation with mental health providers may be helpful but isn't very effective in communicating that to you.  

[Bill1954]

From an anecdotal perspective fatigue was a real deal for me. I was dragging butt at work; falling asleep some days after only several hours on shift. After pursuing this with my doctor I was diagnosed with HCV, stage 3-4 fibrosis (w/possible transition to cirrhosis). Technically I don’t believe chronic HCV is considered symptomatic but patient-reported symptoms don’t seem to bear that out.  I was previously diagnosed with type II diabetes, but blood glucose was tightly controlled at the time of HCV dx.

Yes, fatigue and depression often present hand and hand, but still....

Good luck and take care-

--Bill

[rambleon40]

Fatigue can arise from depression, dehydration, eating too many refined carbohydrates, lack of exercise, obesity, lack of healthy foods, etc.

It is reckless to blame fatigue just on Hep C.  If one's liver is functioning well (as many a cirrhotic liver does), why should it cause fatigue?

[willbb]

Fatigue is the most reported and studied symptom of HCV. Clinical estimates of a median 50% of HCV infected people have this symptom(Weissenborn et al., 2009) to as high as 97%( Goh et al.,1999) This after 85 Journal articles and 11 years of on-going studies.

http://www.hepcaustralia.com.au/images/documents/Fatigue_In_HCV_Infection_A_Review_1989-2011.pdf


On a personal note it was unexplained (and often debilitating intermittent fatigue that led to my diagnosis as it is for many according to the 2 experienced hepatologists I have seen.

Will

[rambleon40]

My ex-wife (internal medicine phsyician) treats people all day long, one after another, who come into her office complaining of being tired.  They are typically overweight, don't exercise and eat poorly. (ie - oil-soaked Lays or fries, sugar-filled Coke and chemical-laden processed meat sandwich wrapped in nutritionless refined bleached wheat bread.

Which probably describes close to 90%+ of our populace.

Now if 97% of Hep C people who feel fatigued eat properly, exercise, have good weight and low blood sugar, I'd say you were on to something.  

[curiouslady1]

Well,  let's ask the people who have treated successfully and whose liver is no longer inflamed.  Hey!  You out there!  Yes.  That's right!  You!  Do you feel any less tired now that you no longer have HepC?  No?  Well, do you mind putting down that glass of champagne (beer, whiskey, wine) for a minute to answer this question?  :)

[willbb]

rambleon

I see you didn't read ..or possibly didn"t understand my post...it is not myself that " is " or " is not " on to anything. It was was the research and studies by the people in the field articled,and what my own particular Hepatologist mentioned. Unlike your self and your ex. I have no knowledge of the facts in the matter.

Curiouslady.. Not sure what you are saying  ,however I personally often don"t..
Will

[rambleon40]

PS -

I appreciate the document and looked it over.  It was interesting.

Besides the fact that it is impossible to tell if the studies completely accounted for lifestyle, I respectfully submit that all research is subject to bias, also, and one needs to know who is funding it.

See, e.g.,

http://blog.hcfama.org/2010/09/16/studies-industry-funded-research-produces-bias-and-is-not-always-disclosed/

www.policymed.com/2011/03/jama-disclosure-of-interests-in-meta-analyses.html

http://www.editage.com/resources/art3.html

http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Guidances/ucm126832.htm (FDA rules, but Big Pharma certainly uses wordsmiths when it comes to reporting).

What is still missing is a good objective non-Big Pharam funded study of people pre-interferon and people post-interefron, folllowed for some time.  

If CDC data is to be believed (1% to 5% of people with Hep C will die of it, 20% will develop cirrhosis), one may have a very hard time justifying the use of the drugs given the anectodal and medically documented side effects, or at the very least one should feel comfortable with a decision not to treat.  

[crossroadsec]

Thnx Will n Bill. I have ground my own wheat to make my bread since I was in my late 20's. Mostly veggie protein - occasional home made deserts. I taught aerobics n have weight trained my entire adult life. Till now. Never drank.  I also slept in my classroom after school before I could grade papers n drive home. Literally slept in parking lots n at rest stops.
I did all of this in an attempt to ward off fatigue. Situational depression? Sure, we all experience that.
Curious lady n Rambleon - there are other causes for fatigue for sure - but some of us DO have to fight for every oz of energy because of the virus n it's damage to our body. And part of my fatigue today may be related to grieving. I got out n dressed n am now snoozing in my car. My family  used to lol about it. Not so much now.
Call me the Napper.
Karen :)

[curiouslady1]

Not surprising to me that you don't understand the humor Will.  Sad.    

[rambleon40]

Pegasys = $2,454.02 / month.  http://www.drugstore.com/pegasys/box-180mcg0-5ml-kit/qxn00004035239

Ribavrin = $260.00 / month.  http://www.drugstore.com/ribavirin/rebetol/200mg-capsules/qxn00781204316

Merck and Roche are going to "educate health care professionals" about triple combination therapy.  

"Improving treatment outcomes for more patients with chronic hepatitis C is our ultimate goal," said Pascal Soriot, Roche Pharmaceuticals Division, chief operating officer. "Through this extended collaboration and the education of health care professionals, Roche and Merck aim to ensure that appropriate patients can benefit from triple combination therapy."

http://www.merck.com/newsroom/news-release-archive/corporate/2011_0720.html

There's not a scintilla of education about suicidal ideations, depression, joint pain, psoriasis, brain fog, or the pretty high likelihood of thyroid damage, though.  


  :-)  

[willbb]

I love humour..   I guess yours is a little different than I am used to.. yes I am sorry you are sad about that.

[rambleon40]

Maybe you're right.  

I'd like to try some of that bread!

[crossroadsec]

Awake n ready to drive. Here's some humor: I've kept orange ear plugs in my purse for years for napping. One day I walked into a department store with them on. I wondered why people were staring! Got in the car n lmbo. Still lol.
Headed home to make cinnamon rolls w amaranth n whole wheat flour, soy milk n margarine. My big "gonna start that Promacta no matter how scared I am" evening.
Laughing to keep from crying today,
Karen :)

[rambleon40]

Well, one more post.  Sorry.  

I used to have pretty intense night sweats before interferon therapy.   I felt like / assumed it was my body fighting off the disease.  It never really bothered me and I just kind of thought it was a good thing.  

But what some of you say about fatigue from the body fighting may be right, though I never really felt it.  

The sweats have pretty much quit since I've done interferon.  I don't know if that's good or not.  I did not get SVR.  I do get intensely fatigued sometimes now, where I just have to go to bed during the day.  C'est la vie.

I had non-detectable levels of the virus during treatment, but high enzymes.  The docs said the interferon was inflaming my liver (autoimmiune reaction).

My hunch is that the interferon damaged my liver as it damaged my skin, joints and brain.  My other hunch is that it has shortened my life.  Do what I can while I can!

[crossroadsec]

Way to hang tough. We all just get by best we can w what we know. One of the reasons I'm scared of Promacta is that it causes liver damage.. Hell O! G4/S4 already. Still lol. Just watch me beat this AND live to a ripe old age.
Using the RIBA rage against the virus,
Karen :)

[ceecee444]

That's the attitude to have Karen...good luck in your SVR.
Stay strong all

[streamline569]

It hit me as I started to go into cirrhosis. Yes fatigue is a part of it all. I had a rash for years on my side. I haven't seen that rash since I started and now have finished with treatment and yes the night sweats were horrible. I don't have them any more. The thing is this symptoms can be from so many things, but to me it was all related to the hep c or the liver damage and my liver was still compensated. I think it just filter out the poisons as well and that causes the rashes or itching some get and the night sweats to me seem to be my body fighting this disease. The worse was never waking up feeling well, always feeling sick and getting out of bed and moving was hard. I have to say that is all improved since going through treatment. Of course I'm still waiting the six months out and hoping the 24 weeks was enough.Honestly for me my body just wouldn't take anymore of the drugs. I started out so well but I could tell my body was telling me it couldn't take anymore. I really admire people who can get through it long term.

[Jillybean65]

Constant fatigue is what caused me to discover the Hep C as well.