Aa
viral load drop
In a way the news I got today is very bad. My viral load began at 12,600,000. They checked it recently, aftet 10 shots, it is now at 220,000.
This is iffy. It is a good drop, but not 2 log. (what is log?)
My PA says I am almost there, so close, and would like me to keep on a little longer, maybe 6 more weeks. If my vl were higher she would tell me to stop now. If it were much lower the odds would be very good of me clearing. This VL is kind of borderline.
Now, my life is kind of a mess. My husband works 7 days a week day and night just to keep us solvent. My grandson, who I have custody of, is a wreck, at least part of the time. I am working to get him into a therapeutic school. My daughter is bipolar, and does not understand why I won't co parent with her or give her back her son. My grandsons current school is making all our lives harder. They call me for the way he LOOKS at people now. I am the backbone of my family normally. I make everyone ok. My husband is the breadwinner, I am the one who needs to bring laughter, perspective, calm to everyone else.
And I cannot. I need to lean on others on these meds and there is no one to lean on, not my 11 year old extremely troubled grandson, not my bipolar daughter whose heart is always being broken by me, and not my poor husband who is so exhausted he can barely spell his own name.
How much more can we all take?
This is iffy. It is a good drop, but not 2 log. (what is log?)
My PA says I am almost there, so close, and would like me to keep on a little longer, maybe 6 more weeks. If my vl were higher she would tell me to stop now. If it were much lower the odds would be very good of me clearing. This VL is kind of borderline.
Now, my life is kind of a mess. My husband works 7 days a week day and night just to keep us solvent. My grandson, who I have custody of, is a wreck, at least part of the time. I am working to get him into a therapeutic school. My daughter is bipolar, and does not understand why I won't co parent with her or give her back her son. My grandsons current school is making all our lives harder. They call me for the way he LOOKS at people now. I am the backbone of my family normally. I make everyone ok. My husband is the breadwinner, I am the one who needs to bring laughter, perspective, calm to everyone else.
And I cannot. I need to lean on others on these meds and there is no one to lean on, not my 11 year old extremely troubled grandson, not my bipolar daughter whose heart is always being broken by me, and not my poor husband who is so exhausted he can barely spell his own name.
How much more can we all take?
Welcome. I have taken 1000 for the first 12 months of tx. I'm on 800 for now. I weigh 123 and I am 5'5". I think their is different dosing for pegasys and pegintron on the riba. Maybe someone can comment on this. I take pagasys and it says on the pamphlet G1 need either 1000 or 1200. Once again welcome. LL
Welcome. Have you tried vit B12 for the brain fog? It seems to really help my hubby. He is salesman so he has to stay a little sharp. He is on his 2nd round, he did 24/24 last year only to have dragon return. New doc feels that relapse was causd by untreated high ferritin before starting tx first time. He will do 7/48 tonight. He is geno 3a with some liver damage so he must defeat the dragon. He works everyday 8-12 hours and his major complaint is fatigue although yesterday his left ear began to ring.......he isn't up yet so I don't know if it has stopped or not. My hubby also takes vit E, flax seed oil, green tea, billberry, and of course milk thistle.
Are you a small person? Your dosage seems so much lower than mine. I am now taking riba 1000mg and I weigh about 130.
what is your geno? I am close to your age, with minimal damage. It is that half century mark that got me into tx. If hep c doesn't get you, other things will that could be related to this infection. let's try to poke the buggers away with that syringe, maybe we will be that good statistic.
as for concentration, it could be hcv induced as I started having problems before TX. It got better after the anemia improved and my body adjusted to the meds. On with the fight.
what is your geno? I am close to your age, with minimal damage. It is that half century mark that got me into tx. If hep c doesn't get you, other things will that could be related to this infection. let's try to poke the buggers away with that syringe, maybe we will be that good statistic.
as for concentration, it could be hcv induced as I started having problems before TX. It got better after the anemia improved and my body adjusted to the meds. On with the fight.
I have been lurking in the background for a while now and I have found this site to be such a great resource. I will take shot 15 on Friday morning (3-19). I got the news on Tuesday that my VL has dropped from 108,000,000 to 185,000 (lab work was done during week 13). I will be 51 next Friday, I'm genotype 1 with no liver damage (I had a biobsy before beginning tx). I take 2 Rebetol AM and 2 in the pm in addition to .5ml of Peginterferon Alfa-2b on Friday morning. The medication has taken it's toll, but this dragon will be defeated. I had mouth sores for a while, it appears that bananas don't agree with me. I used Chloraseptic Mouth Pain rinse (Phenol/Oral anesthetic) and it really worked. I also take up to 800mg of Motrin or Aleve each day for pain in my hands and headaches. I cough constantly, but each cough is productive and sugar free cough drops by Ricola really help. I'm also taking 20mg of Lexapro, Nature's Plus Source of Life liguid multivitamin & mineral supplement with whole food concentrates, Vitamin E and Calcium/Vit D daily. I have just starting losing a few strands of my shoulder length hair, I can barely finish a long paragraph without getting winded, I feel like I tire easily sometimes. The first 10 weeks were the worse. I'm beginning to feel better now. The most frustrating thing for me now is the brain fog. It's hard to concentrate, but it could also be spring fever. The pain and mental anguish of this illness can seem overwhelming at times, but I'm determined to put a nail in the dragon's coffin with each pill and shot I take. One good thing to come out of this is that I have stopped drinking alcohol, now it's water, water, and more water. God bless you and I hope that you will reach your goal. Remember that without good health you're no good to anyone.
I'm so glad to hear your VL has dopped. Your strength is truly amazing. Thanks for sharing with us. Let us know how the next PCR looks. LL
From what I recall about your history this is wonderful news. Congratulations are in order. My Mom always said to look on the bright side. Mike
I'm so sorry with all you've been through. I can definitely relate to your struggles. My son has been mentally ill his whole life, he's 22 now. He's been living in numerous different psych hospitals and is currently in the state hospital. He's got schizo-affective/bipolar type.
As far as being alone in your struggles, lean on the Lord!!
I've lived a single life for the majority of my adult life. I am married but my husband has NEVER lived with me and we are just hanging on in name only. My husband has decided to live with his mother and take care of her instead of being with his wife.
As far as my hep goes, this is my 5th treatment. I had some good news on that front, the other day. After never making it to remission, my last viral load has dropped to 100 copies after 15 months of treatment! My doctor had already started to wean me off my drugs (I was on high dose+daily shots), so now he wants to continue weaning me off and then recheck my PCR next week. I want to encourage you to stay on your treatment because if I could drop after 15 mon. then, your doctor needs to give you more time.
Susan400
As far as being alone in your struggles, lean on the Lord!!
I've lived a single life for the majority of my adult life. I am married but my husband has NEVER lived with me and we are just hanging on in name only. My husband has decided to live with his mother and take care of her instead of being with his wife.
As far as my hep goes, this is my 5th treatment. I had some good news on that front, the other day. After never making it to remission, my last viral load has dropped to 100 copies after 15 months of treatment! My doctor had already started to wean me off my drugs (I was on high dose+daily shots), so now he wants to continue weaning me off and then recheck my PCR next week. I want to encourage you to stay on your treatment because if I could drop after 15 mon. then, your doctor needs to give you more time.
Susan400
I'm not on tx yet but I can still relate to having everyone depend on you. You tell the schools to back off. It's not your responsibilty to do the school job. Just figure out the prioritys and take care of them in your own time. Major priority is getting yourself well so, please set aside some time just for youself----so you can rest, read, or anything else that YOU enjoy. Maybe you and your husband can rub each others backs!
Lean on me anytime you like.
Lean on me anytime you like.
Audrey....you are doing great and I agree with Mike. And like the saying goes..."lean on me, when you're not strong.."we'll" give you strenght to carry on". And I also agree life is not fair! Hep C tx is enough w/o having all the bs to put up with!
Fubarcat, My feelings exactly and then Indiana comes on w/ some sites for just that question...I hoestly wondered if all the extra stress I had was what caused me to replase!
Indiana......CHEESECAKE>>>>YUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
Love ya'll, Cindee
Fubarcat, My feelings exactly and then Indiana comes on w/ some sites for just that question...I hoestly wondered if all the extra stress I had was what caused me to replase!
Indiana......CHEESECAKE>>>>YUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
Love ya'll, Cindee
I assume you are on Pegasys/Riba, which is a fixed dose interferon. If you are on Peg-Intron, your doc may allow you to slightly increase the dosage for more rapid response. Also depending on your weight, your Ribavirin dose may be less than ideal. I do not believe the mouth sores are Riba related, but more Interferon generated. Do discuss the ideal Riba dosage with your doctor, for your weight of course, since it helps somewhat in initial clearance, but even more so in preventing relapse after tereatment.
You are doing well at 10 weeks, and may indeed hit the 2-log drop by 12 weeks (make sure they do a quantitative test at week 12, to see how well you are continuing to reduce viral load).
If you are 2-log or better by week twelve, but still are detected by quantitative testing, then do look into extended tx with your doc. You will hope to be fully undetected by 24 weeks, and can definitely eradicate this virus with persistence, and possibly extended dosing. The odds will be in your favor by extending.
Keep giving it all you have. You are definitely responding. Just try to maximize the response and duration!!!!!
You are doing well at 10 weeks, and may indeed hit the 2-log drop by 12 weeks (make sure they do a quantitative test at week 12, to see how well you are continuing to reduce viral load).
If you are 2-log or better by week twelve, but still are detected by quantitative testing, then do look into extended tx with your doc. You will hope to be fully undetected by 24 weeks, and can definitely eradicate this virus with persistence, and possibly extended dosing. The odds will be in your favor by extending.
Keep giving it all you have. You are definitely responding. Just try to maximize the response and duration!!!!!
As always - thanks for your response. You explained it beautifully. Other than getting someone very dear to me in alcohol rehab, I doubt the stress is going to go away any time soon. I know, I know - I can't force someone to do something they don't want to do, all I can do is control how I deal with it. Sometimes easier said than done, but I am taking steps to work on it. I so appreciate your help - not only to me, but to everyone on this forum. You are always there. Thank you!
YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!! From what I understand ( I think the gastro dr said it) a log = 1 zero in your v/l, so to go from 12,600,000 to 220,000 in ten weeks is fantastic! It looks like 2 logs to me. You feel so crappy now because your body is using all your energy to fight the dragon and you are winning! YOU HANG IN THERE!!!!You said the viral load is kinda iffy......not......it is now considered a low viral load. Think of it this was, you have KILLED 12,380,000 viruses. KEEP UP THE FIGHT.....Remember...If God brings me to it, he will bring me through it. I will be keeping you in my thoughts.
I have to come at this from the other side.
A radio show I listened to was about studies of cardiac patients, cancer patients with various treatments, and the such and the fact that they stay depressed, less interested, more frustrated whilst their bodies have reasonabled healed and come along nicely.
The culprit mentioned was cytokines. These suckers are the Paul Reveres (sp) of our immune system that run to the brain <b>AND SHOUT "SOMETHINGS WRONG!"</b> and the brain kicks its various systems in gear to combat whatever and then we feel sick, depressed, dirty-wash-towel-in-the-corner feelings.
Depressed folks seem to have a generous share of cytokines running to brain and stirring up all kinds of stuff. People constantly stressed seem to also. Generalized inflammation seems to do this too.
Choke off the cytokines - happy days are here again! The skies above are clear again...
Soooo, yes there is a link between stress and what happens with our immune system, a significant influence shall we say, and us pummeling it with INF and RIBA; if one were to make a wild-assed guess, don't combine to ultimate benefit.
Once again, aerobic exercise, often an ordeal on tx, is probably the best non-chemical thing you can do to combat stress.
A radio show I listened to was about studies of cardiac patients, cancer patients with various treatments, and the such and the fact that they stay depressed, less interested, more frustrated whilst their bodies have reasonabled healed and come along nicely.
The culprit mentioned was cytokines. These suckers are the Paul Reveres (sp) of our immune system that run to the brain <b>AND SHOUT "SOMETHINGS WRONG!"</b> and the brain kicks its various systems in gear to combat whatever and then we feel sick, depressed, dirty-wash-towel-in-the-corner feelings.
Depressed folks seem to have a generous share of cytokines running to brain and stirring up all kinds of stuff. People constantly stressed seem to also. Generalized inflammation seems to do this too.
Choke off the cytokines - happy days are here again! The skies above are clear again...
Soooo, yes there is a link between stress and what happens with our immune system, a significant influence shall we say, and us pummeling it with INF and RIBA; if one were to make a wild-assed guess, don't combine to ultimate benefit.
Once again, aerobic exercise, often an ordeal on tx, is probably the best non-chemical thing you can do to combat stress.
Honey......I have NO idea exactly when I may have cleared. I did my tx in the "early" days. Back then the protochol for type 1's was 2-log-10 drop by 24 weeks. This stuff is changing SO fast now.....even the Docs can't keep up! I was clear at 24 weeks...thats all I know. And my sides SUCKED. I literally "crawled" around for the first 8 weeks. But I laughed and I cried(don't tell the guys) and I came HERE for support. I just came here and talked it out. This place was my haven that got me through it all. Thats why I stay around.
Fubarcat.....Now is NOT the time to try to save the world. You really have to concentrate on YOU right now. SCREW all the others. This is YOUR time. 1 year means NOTHING in the "Grand Scheme" of things. The problems will still be there....and everyone WILL survive without you for a year. If you don't kill this NOW, you won't be around LATER to help them. Take care of YOU first right now baby.
Cuteus......THAT pun WAS intended. hahahahahahaha No brain Fog in your house!!
Cindee...........OH YEAH BABY. CHEESECAKE!! But that only if she DOESN"T make it! Otherwise she owes ME! I will share.......
The LOGS are easy....just drop off 1 zero for each log....Your 2 log drop would be at 126,000....or close to that since the teats are NOT accurate on the numbers. You are THERE!!!!!!!!
first off, thank you all. Second, how do I find email addresses, I believe there is a way but ??? Indiana, I will mail you if I can find out how. Are you in Indiana? I am in Chicago.
ok, the real deal. I totally trust my doc. He is Dr. Steven Flamm at Northwestern University hospital, and his main focus is Hep C. He is a biggie in this part of the world. My first gastro fired me when I had the retinal hemmorhage 2 years ago, She said I needed someone more specialized then she was, and sent me to Dr. Flamm.
Dr. Flamm does NOT think I am going to die of Hep C. My liver biopsy has NOT worsened in the last 5 years, and my blood work has been good all along. AND the fact that I don't drink is strongly in my favor , for those folks who think maybe they can drink and not risk a lot of damage. In other words, my liver functions well. I do believe in MY case, (not eveyone's) I have a choice about tx.
But I am symptomatic from the hep. That is why I am on tx. I have a LOT of fatigue, leg cramps, and a lot of stomach problems, all of which are probably caused by Hep C. IF I have a good chance of responding, of clearing, I will stay on it for the duration.
I am committed (barring unforseen stuff) to staying on till my next blood work, April 12th. By then I will be at week 14 or 15. Today they put me back up to 800 of riba. I started at 1200, after around 5 weeks I was taken off riba for a week, because of severe mouth sores that would not heal. They put me back on 2 pills aday, then 3, now 4. My lab work is excellent, they tell me. I am still within normal for both red and white blood cells, which I am told is really good at this point? Yes?
My psyche is what is really bothering me. I am like a stranger to myself. Now, I am NOT the most tightly strung person you will ever meet anyway. I did not shoot heroin for 10 years because I had my act together. I shot because I wanted to numb the turmoil in my head. I have worked very hard for 18 years to become a better and more stable person. I CANNOT and WILL NOT go backwords mentally. I am already on the maximum amount of an AD, and I have tried a number of ad's in my life.
People are depending on me.
So, I will see what happens. I will see Dr. Flamm. I will see what he recommends. I will see how I feel.
You guys are wonderful. You are prime rib and lobster, not chopped liver. But you cannot be right here keeping me from going off on the school, or my grandson. or my poor exhausted husband. You cannot be here when I am wondering how many ambien will be an OD.
I love you guys. I plan to keep trying for now. We'll see what happens.
Thnaks again.
ok, the real deal. I totally trust my doc. He is Dr. Steven Flamm at Northwestern University hospital, and his main focus is Hep C. He is a biggie in this part of the world. My first gastro fired me when I had the retinal hemmorhage 2 years ago, She said I needed someone more specialized then she was, and sent me to Dr. Flamm.
Dr. Flamm does NOT think I am going to die of Hep C. My liver biopsy has NOT worsened in the last 5 years, and my blood work has been good all along. AND the fact that I don't drink is strongly in my favor , for those folks who think maybe they can drink and not risk a lot of damage. In other words, my liver functions well. I do believe in MY case, (not eveyone's) I have a choice about tx.
But I am symptomatic from the hep. That is why I am on tx. I have a LOT of fatigue, leg cramps, and a lot of stomach problems, all of which are probably caused by Hep C. IF I have a good chance of responding, of clearing, I will stay on it for the duration.
I am committed (barring unforseen stuff) to staying on till my next blood work, April 12th. By then I will be at week 14 or 15. Today they put me back up to 800 of riba. I started at 1200, after around 5 weeks I was taken off riba for a week, because of severe mouth sores that would not heal. They put me back on 2 pills aday, then 3, now 4. My lab work is excellent, they tell me. I am still within normal for both red and white blood cells, which I am told is really good at this point? Yes?
My psyche is what is really bothering me. I am like a stranger to myself. Now, I am NOT the most tightly strung person you will ever meet anyway. I did not shoot heroin for 10 years because I had my act together. I shot because I wanted to numb the turmoil in my head. I have worked very hard for 18 years to become a better and more stable person. I CANNOT and WILL NOT go backwords mentally. I am already on the maximum amount of an AD, and I have tried a number of ad's in my life.
People are depending on me.
So, I will see what happens. I will see Dr. Flamm. I will see what he recommends. I will see how I feel.
You guys are wonderful. You are prime rib and lobster, not chopped liver. But you cannot be right here keeping me from going off on the school, or my grandson. or my poor exhausted husband. You cannot be here when I am wondering how many ambien will be an OD.
I love you guys. I plan to keep trying for now. We'll see what happens.
Thnaks again.
Sounds to me like you're making it, though maybe not as fast as you had hoped. I hope you start feeling better soon, Dave
HOLY CARP AUDREY....YOU ARE THERE BABY!! DON'T YOU DARE EVEN THINK ABOUT STOPPIN!! IFFY MY A$$!!
Commeeree....Lets talk. first of all, did you know that the Quantitative Pcr tests are NOT FDA approved? Well...they aren't. Know why not?.....Because they are NOT absolutely accurate...by the numbers. I have seen this many times. You could have them test that same sample again and get a whole different answer....could be higher by a LOT....OR LOWER by a LOT. I have seen these tests be off by more than a million in the higher ranges. In your case, the difference between 126,000 and and 220,000 is "ststististically" NO difference.
You are SOOOOO there....and at TEN weeks too!! To go from 12 MILLION down to a few hundred-thousand in TEN weeks is AWSOME!! You are responding GREAT!! You should be CHEERING instead of moanin! I'll betcha a CHEESECAKE that you are clear at 12 weeks.....or certainly at your next test in what....6 weeks? Wanta bet??
Next is that comment that you have NOBODY to lean on???? What are ALL of US???...Chopped liver?? We are ALWAYS here for YOU sweetie. You can post here anytime. This place is always open....24/7. If you want you can always e-mail me or some of the others who have posted their addresses. Lean on US....Thats what we're here for! Send me an e-mail....I"LL make you laugh. You just need a little support is all. Thats exactly what we do here.
Fubarcat......It is not really the meds that kill The Dragon. It is our own immune systems that do the work. Long term stress can lower our immune systems and so affect our rates of response. Here are some general articles on stree and the immune system...
http://www.econ.uiuc.edu/~hanko/Bio/stress.html
http://www.mercola.com/2001/nov/7/stress_immune_system.htm
http://www.hhmi.org/cgi-bin/askascientist/highlight.pl?kw=&file=answers%2Fimmunology%2Fans_011.html
http://m3.doubleclick.net/814859/1intercept_ros224.html
You need to get a handle on that stuff and fix whatever is the problem.....or at least accept it and move on. Focus on yourself and what you are trying to accomplish with tx. The problems will still be there once you have cleared.
Commeeree....Lets talk. first of all, did you know that the Quantitative Pcr tests are NOT FDA approved? Well...they aren't. Know why not?.....Because they are NOT absolutely accurate...by the numbers. I have seen this many times. You could have them test that same sample again and get a whole different answer....could be higher by a LOT....OR LOWER by a LOT. I have seen these tests be off by more than a million in the higher ranges. In your case, the difference between 126,000 and and 220,000 is "ststististically" NO difference.
You are SOOOOO there....and at TEN weeks too!! To go from 12 MILLION down to a few hundred-thousand in TEN weeks is AWSOME!! You are responding GREAT!! You should be CHEERING instead of moanin! I'll betcha a CHEESECAKE that you are clear at 12 weeks.....or certainly at your next test in what....6 weeks? Wanta bet??
Next is that comment that you have NOBODY to lean on???? What are ALL of US???...Chopped liver?? We are ALWAYS here for YOU sweetie. You can post here anytime. This place is always open....24/7. If you want you can always e-mail me or some of the others who have posted their addresses. Lean on US....Thats what we're here for! Send me an e-mail....I"LL make you laugh. You just need a little support is all. Thats exactly what we do here.
Fubarcat......It is not really the meds that kill The Dragon. It is our own immune systems that do the work. Long term stress can lower our immune systems and so affect our rates of response. Here are some general articles on stree and the immune system...
http://www.econ.uiuc.edu/~hanko/Bio/stress.html
http://www.mercola.com/2001/nov/7/stress_immune_system.htm
http://www.hhmi.org/cgi-bin/askascientist/highlight.pl?kw=&file=answers%2Fimmunology%2Fans_011.html
http://m3.doubleclick.net/814859/1intercept_ros224.html
You need to get a handle on that stuff and fix whatever is the problem.....or at least accept it and move on. Focus on yourself and what you are trying to accomplish with tx. The problems will still be there once you have cleared.
I wish that you discuss increasing your ribavirin dose
with your doctor. You can have another medication beside it to heal its side effects on the blood counts.
with your doctor. You can have another medication beside it to heal its side effects on the blood counts.
Yes..I agree with everyone as you are responding! And also your test was a little bit early so hey...don't get down about that! Plus you also said you are reduced meds and you did have to get off totally for what?? 1 or 2 weeks? I think you are coming along fine. Did you ever have a biospy before starting tx, I don't remember you saying. ((((Hugs)))) I understand you want the total undetectable but...Hang in there!
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